"Training in Pakistan was better than that in USA" tells Iranian fighter pilot

[Signalian]

minus purposefully hitting indian ships on ocean while rescuing MV Suez in 2010......
Very mature of them......

Anyways i would like to see that IQ transpire in the real world first for the benefit of the country then i will give them marks. Right now Baloch terrorists r using sea route to smuggle weapons and terrorist to and from iran into Pak and neither navy nor MSA has done much to ensure water tight security on that front so.....

There is a farsi saying, whose english translation is: ''Prove yr loyalty first then claim yr share in inheritance''

PN has a long long way to go to prove themselves as a respectable force. It simply right now is far too inexperienced force to really give them some sort of positive marks. Nor their battle performances of the past give good impression.

PN officers and sailors are more educated than their counterparts in PAF and PA. It is what it is, whether you see or not. Try studying with PN officers and see their approach to tackle a problem. I studied with PN officers while having PA officers in same syndicate for the course. The PN officers were toppers, but thats not all. The systems operated by PN sailors are extremely complicated and cannot be handed over to Army grunts. In Army, infantry is the most populated arm but as arms become technical like AD, Signals, Engineers, EME and even artillery, the cadres become shorter. PAF hangs in between Navy and Army. Navy is all technical with its electronics systems installed in ships, subs, aircrafts etc whereas the run-of-the-mill grunt combat job has been handed over to Marines for security duties.

So while you gauge PN through lens of '71 war or the ship collision incident, you become blind to the over all picture.

You really want Navy to transpire their IQ ? Navy is the smallest and it has the smallest responsibility compared to other forces if area of responsibility is seen. Naval officers don't get top positions in JSHQ and hardly any top technical positions elsewhere. There are ex-Pakistani Naval officers teaching in different Naval colleges of gulf countries but their services are not well-rewarded with opportunities in Pakistan.

Try having a talk with a Naval officer, and then talk to an Army officer. You will find many noticeable differences.

 

[Sinnerman108]

he believes that the level of flight education in Pakistan was better than in the United States. "Perhaps this difference was not known in the time of the Shah, but it was proved in the war. I am really happy to go to Pakistan because the training I received there was very useful in the war. "Many of the children were injured due to low experience flying at low altitudes." (P. 34) Atiqahchi says that the pilots who learned to fly at low altitudes in Pakistan performed this maneuver easily during the years of the Holy Defense. He recounted in his memoirs that because the Pakistanis had fought India many times, they were skilled in low-altitude flights, and in the words of Atiqahchi, Lou Lowell was so-called in their blood that they taught this flight to students like him. Of course, such a flight was considered undisciplined by the Iranian army at the time, but Atiqehchi, after returning to Iran, made such a flight secretly. "During the war, we sometimes had to go through high-voltage power lines," he says. We would not have done it if we had not done some of these indisciplines before, but the Shah's time, because it was the American system, they would not have liked it. "At that time, flying under five hundred feet (one hundred and fifty meters) was prohibited." (Page 89)

"Pakistan was a poor country and made the most of what it had, but Iran was rich but not compassionate."
Link to full article

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www.mashreghnews.ir

Irani Pilots can train in USA ??
I don't think in recent history , and not for foreseeable future they wont.
So what is the conundrum about ?

 

[LeGenD]

Stealth aircraft against a drone seems overkill

It was an Iranian RQ-170 derivative Shahed-197.

Israel Shows The F-35’s First Aerial Kill In Newly Declassified Video

The incident involved an Iranian flying-wing drone carrying small arms to Hamas fighters over a very long distance. Israel has revealed that its F-35I stealth jets have taken part in their first aerial engagements, shooting down at least two Iranian drones that it says were heading toward...

defence.pk

IDF details Iranian UAV incursions

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have identified two unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) that it intercepted a year ago as a previously unknown Iranian type called the...

www.janes.com

Two were shot down in fact.

Iranians are good in the field of robotics to begin with. They could learn so much from Israeli and American examples as well.

Falling from the sky: How Iran became a drone power

Luck and ingenuity spurred by crippling sanctions propelled Tehran's drone programme

www.thenationalnews.com

Iranian forces have used increasingly sophisticated UAVs to strike at high value targets in Iraq, Syria and KSA respectively. They are known to operate UAVs in the night-time and at low altitudes. They are also known to feed non-straight flight paths in long-range UAVs to reach desired targets.

Therefore.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Better try this with China or Russia to let us know the reality.

Amreekan junk is for 3rd world helpless countries only.. I was looking forward to seeing F35s, Amrams, and a few other so-called high-tech toys in Ukraine but got very disappointed. Obviously, US will not want some of the clips go viral.

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

Lol a single squadron of F-35s would destroy the entire PAF.

Only if it was that easy.

You know we are talking about the pilots flying them.

If it is pilots flying them we are talking about then the record is 11-0 to Pakistan when it comes to face off against Israeli pilots.

F35 as a machine is great but claiming that one squadron of F35s can take on entire air forces is just a fantasy.

Pakistan has inducted anti stealth radars from China, which hopefully are merged with Project Vision by now.

Air defense didn't work for them either

In early years it did and if their countries were stable it would still be working.

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

Never happened


I don't think they did. F-35s are superior to any other jet.

Yeah never happened. (Stance of Pakistan Govt. Until they accepted it publicly)

Pilot who shot lutz down sat down and gave interview on YT channel recently as well. And this is just one of few openly accepted.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

PN officers and sailors are more educated than their counterparts in PAF and PA. It is what it is, whether you see or not. Try studying with PN officers and see their approach to tackle a problem. I studied with PN officers while having PA officers in same syndicate for the course. The PN officers were toppers, but thats not all. The systems operated by PN sailors are extremely complicated and cannot be handed over to Army grunts. In Army, infantry is the most populated arm but as arms become technical like AD, Signals, Engineers, EME and even artillery, the cadres become shorter. PAF hangs in between Navy and Army. Navy is all technical with its electronics systems installed in ships, subs, aircrafts etc whereas the run-of-the-mill grunt combat job has been handed over to Marines for security duties.

So while you gauge PN through lens of '71 war or the ship collision incident, you become blind to the over all picture.

You really want Navy to transpire their IQ ? Navy is the smallest and it has the smallest responsibility compared to other forces if area of responsibility is seen. Naval officers don't get top positions in JSHQ and hardly any top technical positions elsewhere. There are ex-Pakistani Naval officers teaching in different Naval colleges of gulf countries but their services are not well-rewarded with opportunities in Pakistan.

Try having a talk with a Naval officer, and then talk to an Army officer. You will find many noticeable differences.

i know abt army officers, my own father was in army a army officer with intel experience.

Im comparing Navy with PAF....because u think navy has better IQ and i believe PAF has.
In wars, airforce has performed better then all other services. And Navy has performed worst.

Thats my barometer to judge. PN is inexperienced force {battle exp}. They were even fooled by the Chinese to install their AD systems in type 54s which arnt that good quality in comparison to CAMM-ER. And they were also insisting on installing them in their Babar Class ships {milgem}. But thats to Turks who intervened and Showed them the performance of CAMM-ER being better then LY80Ns. Which made them change the decision. You know abt this?
They have even gave the contract for Sea Sultan's maintenance to a South African company where they will have to pay in dollars not to include the whole flight cost for crossing the entire Indian Ocean from Karachi to Durban in RSA. While airforce had been insisting to let PAC deal with its MRO issues saving them both time and money in process as they r themselves interested in manufacturing of commercial airliners like Chinese MA700. But Navy is Navy. Ye Badshah log hain, Koi puchny wala nai ha!

Xi'an MA700 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And dont make me start abt these Hangoor Class subs. Its suitable AIP and engines for warm water conditions for Arabian Sea r becoming an issue. And they r buying 8 of them. Their Sea Kings after being overhauled in UK, coming back and crashing infront of the whole public in Karachi beach was also a pretty big embarrassment too.

Like i said inexperience, they get easily fooled by foreign defense sellers. This IQ that u believe they have, must transpire in the real World! not on mere academic level.

 

[PradoTLC]

no EAF wasnt. That particular maneuver he is talking abt is different. Only IrAF trainees were trained for that maneuver. Watch my post where i showed a mirage performing that maneuver.

QOUTE

"EAF pilots where taught low level dog fight tactics by PAF instructors"

what exactly they were taught no idea... but IAF lost 22 planes in dog fights in 1973

.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

QOUTE

"EAF pilots where taught low level dog fight tactics by PAF instructors"

what exactly they were taught no idea... but IAF lost 22 planes in dog fights in 1973

read post#62
this isnt abt low level 360 vs 360 degree turning fights. This abt staying low, well below 500 feet, using terrain masking for evading radars and line of sight as well as using a special technique developed by PAF solely to evade/or going under the obstacles like powerlines, bridges at extremely low speed so pilot is always in control.

Its a very risky tactic but it works if yr groomed and trained well.

 

[PradoTLC]

read post#62
this isnt abt low level 360 vs 360 degree turning fights. This abt staying low, well below 500 feet, using terrain masking for evading radars and line of sight as well as using a special technique developed by PAF solely to evade/or going under the obstacles like powerlines, bridges at extremely low speed so pilot is always in control.

Its a very risky tactic but it works if yr groomed and trained well.

yup..

i think most IAF V EAF were turning rate fights, based on documentaries i have seen

PS one other air force uses super low level combat tactics ( 50 Feet! as i recall).. which is SAAF (south african airforce) against Angola/Cuban airforces.

 

[Mav3rick]

Real Iranian aerial supremacy came from training on F-4E and F-14 with Americans at 8 USAF airbases .... At one point there were some 70-80 Iranian fighter pilots constantly training in dogfighting, CAP with USAF.

result ....

Just the IRIAF F-14A scored 159 kills on the Iraqi airforce (Mig-25/23, Mirage-F1EQ mostly) while losing just 3 aircraft of their own one of which was a case of friendly fire.

Iran is the only country in the world to have Ace of Aces on 4.0 Generation aircraft with Long-range BVR. Just the top three IRIAF F-14A pilots shared some 32 kills between them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aerial_victories_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war

brings tears to the eyes ....

Classic example of better equipment vs poor equipment; the US F-14's with AIM-54 Phoenix were far superior to anything the Iraqi's had of the Soviet origin!

 

[LeGenD]

Better try this with China or Russia to let us know the reality.

Russia and USA had a good measure of each other in Syria.

Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World

Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...

jalopnik.com

How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria (Published 2018)

Interviews and newly obtained documents provide the Pentagon’s first public on-the-ground accounting of one of the bloodiest battles the military has faced in Syria since deploying to fight ISIS.

www.nytimes.com

That Time US Forces Tore Hundreds of Russian Wagner Group Mercenaries to Pieces in Syria

In the 2018 Battle of Khasham, US forces annihilated hundreds of Syrian soldiers and mercenaries from Russia's Wagner Group.

coffeeordie.com

Amreekan junk is for 3rd world helpless countries only.. I was looking forward to seeing F35s, Amrams, and a few other so-called high-tech toys in Ukraine but got very disappointed. Obviously, US will not want some of the clips go viral.

See above.

Amreekan junk made it possible for PAF to shoot down Soviet jets in the 1980s, and Indian jets in 2019 (Operation Swift Retort).

COAS Q. J. Bajwa had something to say about Amreekan junk recently as well. It was shocking to some ears.

Some of you are living in parallel universe or something.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Russia and USA had a good measure of each other in Syria.

Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World

Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...

jalopnik.com

How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria (Published 2018)

Interviews and newly obtained documents provide the Pentagon’s first public on-the-ground accounting of one of the bloodiest battles the military has faced in Syria since deploying to fight ISIS.

www.nytimes.com

That Time US Forces Tore Hundreds of Russian Wagner Group Mercenaries to Pieces in Syria

In the 2018 Battle of Khasham, US forces annihilated hundreds of Syrian soldiers and mercenaries from Russia's Wagner Group.

coffeeordie.com

See above.

Amreekan junk made it possible for PAF to shoot down Soviet jets in the 1980s, and Indian jets in 2019 (Operation Swift Retort).

COAS Q. J. Bajwa had something to say about Amreekan junk recently as well. It was shocking to some ears.

Some of you are living in parallel universe or something.

Yeah but I would love to see some of that junky in Ukraine where it counts. If not then it's nothing but a lot of noise.

 

[Tornado23]

Russia and USA had a good measure of each other in Syria.

Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World

Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...

jalopnik.com

How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria (Published 2018)

Interviews and newly obtained documents provide the Pentagon’s first public on-the-ground accounting of one of the bloodiest battles the military has faced in Syria since deploying to fight ISIS.

www.nytimes.com

That Time US Forces Tore Hundreds of Russian Wagner Group Mercenaries to Pieces in Syria

In the 2018 Battle of Khasham, US forces annihilated hundreds of Syrian soldiers and mercenaries from Russia's Wagner Group.

coffeeordie.com

See above.

Amreekan junk made it possible for PAF to shoot down Soviet jets in the 1980s, and Indian jets in 2019 (Operation Swift Retort).

COAS Q. J. Bajwa had something to say about Amreekan junk recently as well. It was shocking to some ears.

Some of you are living in parallel universe or something.

Swift retort was a combination of amreeki, chinese and apna junk

 

[Abid123]

Russia and USA had a good measure of each other in Syria.

Russia’s Involvement In Syria Proves That It's Far Behind The Western World

Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny...

jalopnik.com

How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria (Published 2018)

Interviews and newly obtained documents provide the Pentagon’s first public on-the-ground accounting of one of the bloodiest battles the military has faced in Syria since deploying to fight ISIS.

www.nytimes.com

That Time US Forces Tore Hundreds of Russian Wagner Group Mercenaries to Pieces in Syria

In the 2018 Battle of Khasham, US forces annihilated hundreds of Syrian soldiers and mercenaries from Russia's Wagner Group.

coffeeordie.com

See above.

Amreekan junk made it possible for PAF to shoot down Soviet jets in the 1980s, and Indian jets in 2019 (Operation Swift Retort).

COAS Q. J. Bajwa had something to say about Amreekan junk recently as well. It was shocking to some ears.

Some of you are living in parallel universe or something.

Bawja is a sell out. Sold his country for money. Not a good example with all due respect.