"Training in Pakistan was better than that in USA" tells Iranian fighter pilot

[Oldman1]

F-35 Loses Dogfight to Fighter Jet From the 1980s

A new report alleges that an F-35A was defeated by the very aircraft it is meant to replace.

thediplomat.com

Does F-35 losing in exercises to old aircraft also count?

As Beny mentioned 20:1 ratio. Can they afford to achieve those losses? You know they respawn in exercises to try again with overwhelming numbers.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

he believes that the level of flight education in Pakistan was better than in the United States. "Perhaps this difference was not known in the time of the Shah, but it was proved in the war. I am really happy to go to Pakistan because the training I received there was very useful in the war. "Many of the children were injured due to low experience flying at low altitudes." (P. 34) Atiqahchi says that the pilots who learned to fly at low altitudes in Pakistan performed this maneuver easily during the years of the Holy Defense. He recounted in his memoirs that because the Pakistanis had fought India many times, they were skilled in low-altitude flights, and in the words of Atiqahchi, Lou Lowell was so-called in their blood that they taught this flight to students like him. Of course, such a flight was considered undisciplined by the Iranian army at the time, but Atiqehchi, after returning to Iran, made such a flight secretly. "During the war, we sometimes had to go through high-voltage power lines," he says. We would not have done it if we had not done some of these indisciplines before, but the Shah's time, because it was the American system, they would not have liked it. "At that time, flying under five hundred feet (one hundred and fifty meters) was prohibited." (Page 89)

"Pakistan was a poor country and made the most of what it had, but Iran was rich but not compassionate."
Link to full article

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www.mashreghnews.ir

cant these iranis keep their mouth shut for once in their lives??
The so called maneuver he is talking abt is this.

PAF had developed this risky method to deal with obstacles like powerlines. This was ultra classified. And was taught them as a favor or thank you for their help in 1965 war. Pakistan hadnt even taught this method to even its closest allies like China and KSA.
But these dumb iranis couldnt keep their mouth shut!

it obviously isnt classified anymore.

 

[Beny Karachun]

F-35 Loses Dogfight to Fighter Jet From the 1980s

A new report alleges that an F-35A was defeated by the very aircraft it is meant to replace.

thediplomat.com

Does F-35 losing in exercises to old aircraft also count?

It's a gun battle, in which stealth/technology doesn't really matter. But that's an unrealistic situation that doesn't take into account the F-35s advantages and the fact that the pilot will utilize them to the fullest extent before any gun battle could occur.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

not suprised, PAF also trained EAF on low level dogfight tactics prior to 1973 war.

source: Air Warfare in the Missile Age - Lon O Noreen




if you see the bulk of Israel "victories" have been against idiots.

When up against high trained PAF piloted they always lose.

for that matter they even against Hezbullah a highly trained miltia they havent exactly done brilliantly either.

no EAF wasnt. That particular maneuver he is talking abt is different. Only IrAF trainees were trained for that maneuver. Watch my post where i showed a mirage performing that maneuver.

 

[Oldman1]

It's a gun battle, in which stealth/technology doesn't really matter. But that's an unrealistic situation that doesn't take into account the F-35s advantages and the fact that the pilot will utilize them to the fullest extent before any gun battle could occur.

Not to mention when was the last dogfight gun battle?

 

[MastanKhan]

Not to mention when was the last dogfight gun battle?

Hi,

By default of its design---the JF17's canon is not the best weapon for a dogfight.

A few would know what I am talking about.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I'll live in denial, you'll live in delusions.
It's funny how you call us Middle Easterners as if you're superior at something lol.


2006 was a stalemate.
The US army has shown it was superior at fighting in Afghanistan. It's not as good at creating new nations.
India and Pakistan are similarly trained.

WE ACTUALLY ARE! thats a fact!!
The biggest problem with israelis is that its a country with extremely low population, meaning IAF always has limited supply of talent pool. With bigger countries there is no such problem. They always find a bigger pool of talent to choose and phase off during recruitment. One of the reasons why the experienced israeli pilots always hide their faces while taking public photos with either aircrafts or in uniform/G-suit for security reasons. But USAF,/RuAF, PAF etc dont.

Read the book from yr own former Air Chief Ezer Weizman called ''On Eagles' Wings''

It mentions abt PAF in Arab-Jewish wars.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Not exactly. OP is about 1960s to early 70s. That time Iranian airforce was constantly having exchange programs with USAF, RAF, IAF, TuAF, PAF (Anti-Soviet block).

Most of the F-14A pilots however never engaged with any other airforce in the world other than USAF for training on these jets. At the time of the revolution, there were some 70 pilots at 8 airbases in US. That crop of pilots later went on to create history against Baathist Arabs with an almost unrealistic amount of aerial kills.

buddy, YOUR OWN PILOT IS TALKING ABOUT IT. So u should accept the reality too.
Actually F14 or others in Iran were all US made aircrafts. So naturally for fighter conversion training they had to go to US initially. PAF's initial pilots too had gone there for training in our American aircrafts. Including for f16s in early 80s. Rest were exercises, we do with USAF to till this day infact. We did exercise with them last October too.

What he is saying is that Americans train foreign pilots specially non NATO to a bare minimum. They dont teach u the skills/tactics at an advanced level. Which PAF did with Iranis. Read my post # 62 for details abt this maneuver.

 

[Signalian]

cant these iranis keep their mouth shut for once in their lives??
The so called maneuver he is talking abt is this.

PAF had developed this risky method to deal with obstacles like powerlines. This was ultra classified. And was taught them as a favor or thank you for their help in 1965 war. Pakistan hadnt even taught this method to even its closest allies like China and KSA.
But these dumb iranis couldnt keep their mouth shut!

its obviously isnt classified anymore.

Looks like V

 

[Beny Karachun]

Not to mention when was the last dogfight gun battle?

Pretty sure in 1982

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Looks like V

sarkar! jahaz ko choro maneuver ki baat kro.

Phir manty hona k PAF has better IQ then u all?, chahe army waly hon ya navy waly!

 

[Signalian]

Its so cute when Israelis and Iranians take a dig at each other forgetting the Contra (love) affair of 1980s between them.

Reminds me of the term - Maa sadqay

sarkar! jahaz ko choro maneuver ki baat kro.

Phir manty hona k PAF has better IQ then u all?, chahe army waly hon ya navy waly!

PN has the highest amongst all three.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Its so cute when Israelis and Iranians take a dig at each other forgetting the Contra (love) affair of 1980s between them.

Reminds me of the term - Maa sadqay


PN has the highest amongst all three.

the difference is that they r yet to PROVE THAT IN BATTLE! ie in real world!
Besides they have largely been pretty embarrassing in 71 war so......

 

[Signalian]

the difference is that they r yet to PROVE THAT IN BATTLE! ie in real world!
Besides they have largely been pretty embarrassing in 71 war so......

They have proved through the systems(ships, subs, radar, missiles) they operate. Hardly any accidents in peacetime and detection actions against enemy.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

They have proved through the systems(ships, subs, radar, missiles) they operate. Hardly any accidents in peacetime and detection actions against enemy.

minus purposefully hitting indian ships on ocean while rescuing MV Suez in 2010......
Very mature of them......

Anyways i would like to see that IQ transpire in the real world first for the benefit of the country then i will give them marks. Right now Baloch terrorists r using sea route to smuggle weapons and terrorist to and from iran into Pak and neither navy nor MSA has done much to ensure water tight security on that front so.....

There is a farsi saying, whose english translation is: ''Prove yr loyalty first then claim yr share in inheritance''

PN has a long long way to go to prove themselves as a respectable force. It simply right now is far too inexperienced force to really give them some sort of positive marks. Nor their battle performances of the past give good impression.