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The US military assesses it could cripple the Iranian Navy in minutes and destroy it in 2 days

There is still no explanation here as to how an indigenous weapon is superior to an imported one. Sanctions crippled some of those imported weapons? True. But that still does not explain how an indigenous version is technically superior. Iran's F-14s are essentially indigenous, correct? After all these yrs, Iran have been able to keep them flying despite lack of foreign parts. So what make you think those F-14s can handle our F-15s? The answer is: Cannot.

You think that bringing up sanctions as a component of war somehow renders the US military, as a fighting force, less formidable? You are wrong. If you believe that, you are more gullible to your own propaganda than thought. Nobody buys that argument. The enemy is not going to proportionally scale down his force just to satisfy your complaint. If I have a spear and you a knife, too bad. You die. No one is going to point out that weapons disparity. All they care is that you died and I took anything I want off your body. The other guys with the spears? Now they know I have combat experience while they do not. They do not care if that combat experience was against knives, swords, pitchforks, shovels, and whatever else that are not spears. They just know that I have combat experience against a wider variety of weapons than they do and that make me UNPREDICTABLE.

So yes, China and Russia do look at US with wary eyes. For Desert Storm, both countries predicted US in the numbers as that of the Vietnam War, and when that did not occurred, their top military leaderships got reorganized, read: 'fired'. They got spears just like US.

No purchased Air Force would be able to go up against American F-22's in Air to Air combat! And that's the difference!
And if you can't touch them in the air the only option left is to hit them while they are on the ground which basically sums up Iran's current doctrine!
F-22's require how many maintenance hours per flight hour? So just because they are untouchable in the air that doesn't make them untouchable on the ground. ;)

Did I say that the U.S. is a less formidable fighting force simply because they are smart enough to know how to properly use the tools at their disposal? Or that so far they have been smart enough not to start a war with a country that can actually hit back? NO! U.S. is still the most powerful country on the planet!

And you need to take a better look around man, while the U.S. put it's self in absurd positions by fighting useless and endless wars in our region and emptied out it's treasury for nothing the Chinese creped up on you financially and technologically! And you guy's waisted how many trillions in our region and got what to show for it? So yea the body count has been far less and you've had great tactical victories yet you don't really have any long lasting strategic victories that would have been worth anywhere near $7 trillion because with that much money you could have practically purchased all the lands your temporarily occupying! So I'm sorry to be the one who tells you this but the Chinese are laughing at you!
 
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There is still no explanation here as to how an indigenous weapon is superior to an imported one. Sanctions crippled some of those imported weapons? True. But that still does not explain how an indigenous version is technically superior. Iran's F-14s are essentially indigenous, correct? After all these yrs, Iran have been able to keep them flying despite lack of foreign parts. So what make you think those F-14s can handle our F-15s? The answer is: Cannot.

I know this comment was not meant for me but I will say this. You're correct that an indigenous system is not necessarily more advanced than an imported one, but there is a few things. If a nation can produce something indigenously, they:

1) Have control on when and how many they produce, i.e they're not relying on the go ahead of a supplier. For example, sanctions and/or politics may hinder the delivery of a system. Iran's S-300 issue is a good example of this.

2) An indigenous system will not potentially be compromised.

3) You don't have to rely on the manufacturing nation on repairs and parts

4) Indigenous system are usually cheaper, sometimes much more (in case of Iran).

5) You can produce your own systems quicker.

6) There are others benefits such as selling weapons and of course military development fuels technological development in other sectors etc.

Considering most of the points above, if a nation at war cannot produce its own system(s) and has to rely on imports, this is a serious disadvantage for them.

You used the example of F-14 vs F-15. I don't think that is a good representation. Why? because Iran's airforce is currently the weakest when it comes to just how much development it has seen compared to everything else. If you want to use a better example, compare the Iranian indigenous air defences. Compare the Iranian newly developed Bavar-373 to a system it had imported i.e the S-300. The bavar-373 is better in every-way on paper. Therefore, if a nation can reasonably produce modern systems itself, then it should do so. In the case of Iran, this is not an option, but a necessity.
 
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I'd take Gambit who has real world experience over that copy n' paste idiot LeGend (Lajand) any day.
that dude even does not know about US real power, every time talking to him changes a part of narrative to fit the image that US is better, even if Americans themselves do not believe it. you should not become happy with his complements nether you should be sad because of his accurate assessment.
 
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Also, the aircraft carriers were out at sea! Had Japan hit those carriers, the pearl harbour gamble may have paid off. They wouldn't really have needed an immediate follow up plan because island hopping would have gone ahead without the threat of US aircraft carriers.
The point is the follow up, which Imperial JPN could not. Follow up to where? Attack Pearl Harbor again? Go after the other American carriers? Hawaii was a a stationary target, the American carriers were not. Either way, Imperial JPN could not sustain.

Like I said earlier, an airbase is a dynamic weapon platform. In one day, it can launch fighters, the next day it can launch bombers, the next week, it can be abandoned. An attack on an airbase must be a precursor of what? You cannot bomb and airbase and leave it alone for a few weeks or even a few days. Either you destroy it or render it weakened enough that all you need are maintenance attacks to keep it useless. A maintenance attack is smaller in force and more precise in targets in order to keep the defenders off balance. The Iranian missile strikes at Ain Al-Asad airbase accomplished what without follow up? So that Iranians on PDF can make outrageous claims? Guess so.
 
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The point is the follow up, which Imperial JPN could not. Follow up to where? Attack Pearl Harbor again? Go after the other American carriers? Hawaii was a a stationary target, the American carriers were not. Either way, Imperial JPN could not sustain.

Like I said earlier, an airbase is a dynamic weapon platform. In one day, it can launch fighters, the next day it can launch bombers, the next week, it can be abandoned. An attack on an airbase must be a precursor of what? You cannot bomb and airbase and leave it alone for a few weeks or even a few days. Either you destroy it or render it weakened enough that all you need are maintenance attacks to keep it useless. A maintenance attack is smaller in force and more precise in targets in order to keep the defenders off balance. The Iranian missile strikes at Ain Al-Asad airbase accomplished what without follow up? So that Iranians on PDF can make outrageous claims? Guess so.
According to "Cost of War Project" by Brown University US has spent 6.4 trl$ over 19 years on War on Terror
https://www.brown.edu/news/2019-11-13/costsofwar

This is what bin Laden said: let the US come into the ME so they go bankrupt like USSR

+6.4trln$ to the national debt because of Bush's policies.

So US will be stupid enough to start another war and get into another quagmire that will cost trillions of direct and indirect costs.
 
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This is what bin Laden said: let the US come into the ME so they go bankrupt like USSR
Osama bin Laden is dead, the USSR collapsed spectacularly and ignobly, and the US is still thriving.
 
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U.S.A has killed millions in iraq & Afganistan alone, while having loss of few thousand soldier. Compare the ratio how dangerous U.S.A can. If you kill his one soldier, He easily kills 1000 +. Why are you keeping your eyes closed. Living in delusionary world? Good . Mashallah
USA is specialized in hiding actual count of KIA of its forces.
 
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I'd take Gambit who has real world experience over that copy n' paste idiot LeGend (Lajand) any day.
Even Afghans have more credibility than Persian morons of the world. Don't think too much about yourself. You have ZERO credibility in life and here as well.

I will create a thread here on PDF to show how many times Persians got their @sses handed to them throughout history by foreign entities. And finally reduced to heavily sanctioned IRAN. What exactly you morons are proud of?

Your time will come again due to your sheer arrogance. Your bad days are far from over.
 
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Even Afghans have more credibility than Persian morons of the world. Don't think too much about yourself. You have ZERO credibility in life and here as well.

I will create a thread here on PDF to show how many times Persians got their @sses handed to them throughout history by foreign entities. And finally reduced to heavily sanctioned IRAN. What exactly you morons are proud of?

Your time will come again due to your sheer arrogance. Your bad days are far from over.
Lol @BlueInGreen2 i think you hit a nerve!

Legend, you exposed yourself mate! Non of your anti Iran rant can or will be taken seriously from any respectable member since you have shown you true anti Iranian hidden agenda!
 
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When the military carried out President Donald Trump’s order to kill Iran’s top general, some hardened veterans of the decadeslong U.S.-Iran shadow war were troubled.

"Gobsmacked," was the single-word reaction of a former CIA officer who spent a career working against the targeted general, Qassem Soleimani, an Iranian spy master who helped kill hundreds of Americans.


The immediate concern was that Trump's move — the first known targeted killing of a foreign government official in recent decades — could set in motion a full-scale war, one that could crater the global economy, kill untold numbers of people and leave the United States stuck in yet another Middle East quagmire.

That hasn't happened — at least not yet.

An NBC News review of the events surrounding the Soleimani strike and the Iranian response, based on interviews with more than a dozen participants, shows that Washington and Tehran were closer to war than was generally understood. The officials provided new details, including that U.S. intelligence platforms observed the Iranians moving ballistic missiles and scattering their naval forces after Soleimani was killed, potential signs of an impending attack. Officials said the Americans were bracing for strikes on U.S. troops in Iraq by bomb-laden drones.

The U.S. opted not to thwart the Iranian attack officials saw coming, and in the end, no Americans were killed when Iranian missiles struck U.S. positions, defusing the situation temporarily. But the two sides remain in a dangerous boxer’s clench, in which the smallest miscalculation, some officials believe, could lead to disaster. And American intelligence officials fully expect that Iran will pursue a further response, likely some sort of terrorist attack or assassination that doesn’t have obvious fingerprints.


This week, Brian Hook, the U.S. special representative for Iran, warned Soleimani’s replacement that he "will meet the same fate" if he kills Americans, and a top Iranian general responded that the U.S. will "definitely regret it" if the threats don’t cease.

Multiple current and former U.S. military commanders expressed concerns to NBC News that Trump — who campaigned on bringing American soldiers home from Middle East wars — may have become emboldened by the successes of the limited strikes he has ordered. Two former military officials said they worried that Trump — after the commando raid that killed the Islamic State militant group's leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, in Syria and the drone attack on Soleimani — may now become increasingly willing to pull the trigger, believing that military force can always be swift, decisive and relatively cost-free for the U.S. White House officials say Trump remains averse to commitments of ground troops, plans to bring many of them home and is determined to avoid a wider war.

A very small group of the most senior leaders had been looped into the plan to kill Soleimani, according to officials directly familiar with the matter. The consensus was that he presented the perfect target of opportunity — a middle-of-the-night missile strike in Iraq, not Iran, with a very low chance of civilian casualties. Military leaders knew the move would inflame tensions, but they believed Iran did not want a war. They saw this as a punch in the mouth that might just stun Iran into standing down, the officials said.

Trump agreed, a White House official said. In the president's mind, he was doing everything he could to avoid war.


"Believe it or not, we viewed the Soleimani strike as de-escalatory," the official said. "He was one guy, and the Iranian leaders knew what he was doing. They knew he was planning attacks on Americans."

A senior European intelligence official concurred, telling NBC News the strike "reset the calibration for the Iranians about the cost of doing business," and therefore may have reduced the risk of war, at least in the short term.

Following Soleimani's killing, Joint Chiefs Chairman Mark Milley said, "We would have been culpably negligent to the American people had we not made the decision we made."

Trump believed he had to act to reestablish deterrence, the White House official said, because the Iranians had come to believe he would not use force. In December, rockets fired by an Iranian-backed militia killed an American contractor in northern Iraq. When the U.S. responded with airstrikes, Iranian-backed protesters swarmed the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, forcing diplomats into panic rooms.

On Dec. 29, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper and Milley flew to Trump's Mar-a-Lago club for a meeting, at which the president authorized the U.S. response, officials said.

The president signed off on a number of targets. Soleimani was the most significant, but Trump also authorized a strike against Abdul Reza Shahlai, an Iranian operative in Yemen. That strike was not successful.

Trump also authorized the bombing of Iranian ships, missile launchers and air defense systems, officials said. Technically, the military can now hit those targets without further presidential authorization, though in practice, it would consult with the White House before any such action.

Military officials say they knew the Soleimani strike was a gamble that could lead to war, and so the Pentagon made preparations.


For the first time since the 1980s, a special rapid reaction force (now called the Immediate Response Force) of the fabled 82nd Airborne Division was deployed. Another group of paratroopers from the 173rd Airborne Brigade was activated and prepared to deploy to Lebanon. The USS Bataan was on hand in the Mediterranean Sea to be ready in case American civilians had to be evacuated from Lebanon.

Perhaps the most dangerous moments came three days after Soleimani was killed, when U.S. intelligence detected signs that Iran was preparing to launch ballistic missiles, multiple U.S officials said. Trump had already been given an intelligence assessment that one of Iran’s likely responses to the Soleimani killing would be to launch missiles at Iraqi bases hosting American troops, bases that were unprotected by any missile defense systems, current and former officials said.

"There was no means to intercept those ballistic missiles," said Bradley Bowman, of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a Washington think tank that takes a hard line on Iran.

As a result, Bowman said, the U.S. was forced to send the troops to bunkers. “The Department of Defense made the decision that these Patriots were better utilized elsewhere," Bowman said, referring to the air defense missiles. He added that wasn’t necessarily a bad idea because the U.S. military was conducting a counter-ISIS mission and the threat from ISIS was not missiles.


Three current and one former American officials said the U.S. has requested sending Patriot missiles back to the bases in Ain al-Asad and Irbil.

With no option to intercept the Iranian missiles, the other possibility would have been to preemptively attack the missile launchers inside Iran. Yet, the Pentagon never presented Trump with an option to bomb the launchers, an official directly familiar with the matter said — a move that would have ensured the weapons could not be used to kill Americans but might have prompted a wider conflict.

Another concern, officials said, was that Iran would send bomb-laden drones against U.S. forces in Iraq.

The U.S. also observed that Iran was scattering its navy ships, a move designed to make them harder to hit, several officials said. Iran frequently disperses its ships when it is preparing to attack or to defend against an attack. The U.S. military assesses it could cripple the Iranian navy in minutes and take it out completely in less than two days, according to three current and former military officials.


Killing Soleimani may have brought the U.S. closer to conflict with Iran than it has been in years. But tensions were very high between the two nations last summer, too, after Iran shot down a U.S. drone in June.

Hours after that shootdown, Trump decided to retaliate by striking military targets inside Iran. After a White House meeting in which Trump was briefed on retaliatory strikes, the president called Gen. Joseph Dunford, then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, according to multiple officials briefed on the meeting. Trump asked Dunford how many people could die if the U.S. struck inside Iran. Dunford said the estimates ran as high as 150. Trump said he believed that was too high a death toll in response to the destruction of an unmanned drone, the officials said.

Minutes before the attack was to proceed last summer, Trump called it off, to the relief of some U.S. military officials who worried a strike inside Iran could escalate quickly into a wider conflict, according to the officials.

After the Soleimani strike, which also killed other members of his convoy including the deputy head of an Iraqi anti-American militia, the U.S. sent a message to Iran through Swiss diplomats, threatening an overwhelming response if Iran went through with the retaliatory missile attacks, two U.S. officials said.


As they braced for possible missile or drone attacks by Iran, Americans took cover in bunkers at bases throughout Iraq, officials said. For several hours, military officials believed Iran would send drones to crash into bases, so they kept troops and civilians under cover and in body armor.

U.S. commanders in Iraq also were prepared for the possibility that bases could come under ground attack by pro-Iranian militias. To guard against that possibility, soldiers at the base said, some troops at Ain al-Asad stayed out of bunkers and instead patrolled the base. They faced significantly greater risks than those hunkered down in the concrete bunkers, which included heavily fortified shelters built during the era of the Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.

American early warning systems, including a special National Security Agency monitoring center, detected the Iranian missiles as they launched, so when the missiles hit, most troops had taken cover and there were few casualties. Some of the missiles landed in open fields. And while 64 service members suffered brain injuries, no American was killed, and Trump declared that "all is well."

Whether the Iranians intended to kill Americans is a matter of debate within the government. The CIA assesses that the missile strike was designed to minimize casualties, U.S. intelligence officials said. Analysts believe Iran knew the U.S. would see the preparations and detect the launch, and for good measure, Iran warned Iraq that the missiles were coming. CIA analysts believe the strike was a move by Iran’s rulers to show their people they had hit back, without further escalating the situation.

Military officials are less sure. They believe Iran did hope to kill some Americans, and that it was only because the early warning systems worked that nobody died, Milley has said.

But on this, nearly every U.S. official agrees: It was mostly luck that not a single American died, and the missile attack represented a huge gamble by Iran. Had they killed even a single U.S. soldier, Trump might have felt compelled to respond with a counterstrike.

In a statement, an Iranian government spokesman said its response was proportionate and no further escalation of hostilities is expected.

"Iran's response to the unlawful, brutal, and extrajudicial assassination of General Soleimani, a high ranking member of the official military apparatus of the Islamic Republic of Iran (that is not at war with any other nation), and a well-known anti-ISIS hero in the region, was proportionate and in accordance with international law in particular our inherent right to self-defense as enshrined in the U.N. Charter," the spokesman, Alireza Miryousefi, said.

"Iran, as a sovereign member nation of the U.N., does not anticipate any further escalation of hostilities, but is fully committed in defending its sovereignty, citizens and interests against any possible aggression.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/after-soleimani-killing-u-s-braced-iranian-drone-missile-strikes-n1126556

Still vividly remember the US announcement in early 1970s "will bring North Vietnam back to stone age".
 
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Lol @BlueInGreen2 i think you hit a nerve!

Legend, you exposed yourself mate! Non of your anti Iran rant can or will be taken seriously from any respectable member since you have shown you true anti Iranian hidden agenda!
There are countries in this world who can utterly destroy IRAN in a war and/or teach IRAN an unforgettable lesson. Telling you this much is not being anti-Iranian. And there is no hidden agenda in this.

Persians are the most deluded and paranoid bunch nevertheless. Try to be humble and respectful and perhaps many will treat IRAN better.

Drop your lame gloatings; these do not humble and/or intimidate and/or impress anybody.
 
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There are countries in this world who can utterly destroy IRAN in a war and/or teach IRAN an unforgettable lesson. Telling you this much is not being anti-Iranian. And there is no hidden agenda in this.

Persian morons are the most deluded and paranoid bunch nevertheless. Try to be humble and respectful and perhaps many will treat Iran better.
You like to bow to your masters is your choice! We don’t have a stomach for slavery! We are not respectful to colonizers and we don’t give a rat *** what people like you think of us! You continue your rants! Nobody gives a damn!
 
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Even Afghans have more credibility than Persian morons of the world.

Persian morons are the most deluded and paranoid bunch nevertheless.

@Slav Defence

This individual has used racist terms like in the past and I reported him to you. It appears he has not learned and is still using such terms. It seems he is not mature enough to engage in discussions without resorting to ad hominem and useless racist rants. Can you please look into this. Thank you.

To other members, do not engage this person given they clearly have little to contribute other than these vile terms that bring the quality of the forum down. Focus on engaging members that have constructive analysis and comments.
 
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Even Afghans have more credibility than Persian morons of the world. Don't think too much about yourself. You have ZERO credibility in life and here as well.

I will create a thread here on PDF to show how many times Persians got their @sses handed to them throughout history by foreign entities. And finally reduced to heavily sanctioned IRAN. What exactly you morons are proud of?

Your time will come again due to your sheer arrogance. Your bad days are far from over.
You insulted Afghans & also Persians to make an argument??to get what? lame move ..you indeed sound like Trump.
Furthermore such a thread could be created about all nations be it Greek which never raised again to GB that from no sunset has turned to a small isle ... the USSR ... actually not a big deal ... what is important is if we were irrelevant the owner of biggest hand wouldn't bother himself tweeting about us 24/7... sanctions are last thing remained in the hand of the so-called america to dictate its will but these arrogant & their sympathizer are reaching the end ...
You asked What exactly you morons are proud of? of being free:
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