The Submarine Race in the Malaccan Strait

[USAHawk785]

In war chinese shipping will not be allowed to pass through/near our waters,whether usa likes or not.We do not threaten anybody else.As sovereign nation we retain our right to self defense from chinese aggression,and will conduct our national policy acc to our needs..not subject to usa will.

In case of this hypothetical war scenario, you say that the IN will be targeting Chinese merchant marine ships. Do you understand that these ships carry goods and services that are going to foreign countries; you're looking at goods worth billions of dollars destined for Europe, North America, South America, Africa etc. Any sinking of such merchant marine ships would be an attack on the goods of those countries. Not to mention many crewmen working on Chinese merchant ships are from foreign countries. Do you understand that that is violation of human rights and civil rights of those people? That would be met with condemnation by the United Nations and the United Nations Security Council.

Like I said, no one wants the Indian Navy imposing itself in those straits. We don't give a d@mn if India claims self defense, I'm telling you that if you started shooting at Chinese ships without prejudice and possibly harm shipping goods to the United States , Europe et al, you can expect the USN to plow your navy to the depths of the sea.

Please be realistic.

In war chinese shipping will not be allowed to pass through/near our waters,whether usa likes or not.We do not threaten anybody else.As sovereign nation we retain our right to self defense from chinese aggression,and will conduct our national policy acc to our needs..not subject to usa will.

Please note that we would not be 'siding' with the Chinese. Our actions are to maintain and protect American strategic interests. Since USA is China's largest trading partner and largest importer of Chinese goods, most of those shipping that you would be targetting are purchased goods destined for the United States. Billions of Dollars worth of goods.

Do you honestly think that the United States would allow that? Those goods, alone, are worth double the entire Indian Navy.




At the end of this naval conflict, you would loose your entire Eastern and Western Fleet. The United States would mostly probably occupy Andaman and Nicobar Islands indefinitely.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

How are the Indians going to stop Chinese from trafficing the Malacca strait? Block it with feeces, before PLAN arrives to sink their floating 3rd rate SHUPA QUALITY import trashcan navy and hope its not all swamped away too soon?

A couple of sukhoi squadrons based in andaman armed with brahmos will be enough to shut down chinese merchant ships.
As for chinese attempting to prevent that any chinese armada will be greeted as it emerges from the malacca by a 3 dimensional threat.

From the air,sukhois with supersonic brahmos from our unsinkable aircraft carriers,and p-8I with harpoons.
From our surface fleet of 10 destroyers and 20+ frigates plus any carriers salvo after salvo of a combination of klub sizzler and brahmos,one coming high .one low.
From undersea our quiet diesel electric scorpenes and kilos will ambush PLAN naval force with torpedoes and KLub and exocet missiles.And the akula SSN will join in with its klubs as well.

Only a part of the PLAN can come this far away from home ports due to endurance,[u can rule out their diesel sub fleet to enter the region without detection] and it will be ambushed and assaulted from all sides if it tries to threaten us in our backyard.
Even us navy with AEGIS can't properly deal with klubs atm,
Navy Lacks Plan to Defend Against `Sizzler' Missile (Update1) - Bloomberg
Chinese s-300 copy will stand little chance against klub/brahmos/harpoon/exocet combos.
As for ASW,china has NO experience in ASW and lacks specialized ASW ships for blue water ops as well..they will be ambushed by our large fleet of diesel subs.Diesel subs are far more quieter and difficult to detect and killing a CBG is quite possible.Even chinese song got drop on us CBG kitty hawk in 2006,and if USN has nightmAre finding diesel subs
News

little hope for PLAN that has no naval tradition.

PLAN is not a true blue water navy and can't match IN in IOR,Despite bigger size on paper.Geography.training are important factors than just numbers on a paper.

 

[special]

The day the IN intrudes and imposes a threat to the shipping lanes in the Malacca Strait will be the day the USN will wipe out the Indian Navy's Eastern and Western Fleet. USN will also strategically occupy the Andaman and Nicobar Islands as well.

no, US can't do that. india is not Iraq. US don't even have the power to defeat iran, then how it will win a war with india? india is a nuclear armed country and a war will cause a big blow to already strained US economy.

US-Indo war is not gonna happen as two countries have a good friendly relation. blocking Malacca Strait is only for Chinese ships in case of a conflict b/w india and china not the all the ships passing through.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

In case of this hypothetical war scenario, you say that the IN will be targeting Chinese merchant marine ships. Do you understand that these ships carry goods and services that are going to foreign countries; you're looking at goods worth billions of dollars destined for Europe, North America, South America, Africa etc. Any sinking of such merchant marine ships would be an attack on the goods of those countries. Not to mention many crewmen working on Chinese merchant ships are from foreign countries. Do you understand that that is violation of human rights and civil rights of those people? That would be met with condemnation by the United Nations and the United Nations Security Council.

Like I said, no one wants the Indian Navy imposing itself in those straits. We don't give a d@mn if India claims self defense, I'm telling you that if you started shooting at Chinese ships without prejudice and possibly harm shipping goods to the United States , Europe et al, you can expect the USN to plow your navy to the depths of the sea.

Please be realistic.



Please note that we would not be 'siding' with the Chinese. Our actions are to maintain and protect American strategic interests. Since USA is China's largest trading partner and largest importer of Chinese goods, most of those shipping that you would be targetting are purchased goods destined for the United States. Billions of Dollars worth of goods.

Do you honestly think that the United States would allow that? Those goods, alone, are worth double the entire Indian Navy.




At the end of this naval conflict, you would loose your entire Eastern and Western Fleet. The United States would mostly probably occupy Andaman and Nicobar Islands indefinitely.

I don't understand one thing.....a ship with oil headed from gulf towards chinese ports.IN sinks/siezes that[after letting sailors evacuate....what is the problem in war.And what economic damage of epic proportions u talking about that will occur from this to USA and europe?

 

[USAHawk785]

no, US can't do that. india is not Iraq. US don't even have the power to defeat iran, then how it will win a war with india? india is a nuclear armed country and a war will cause a big blow to already strained US economy.

US-Indo war is not gonna happen as two countries have a good friendly relation. blocking Malacca Strait is only for Chinese ships in case of a conflict b/w india and china not the all the ships passing through.

1. We don't care if India is a nuclear power, India is not stupid enough to dare launch any nuclear strikes on our military or shipping interests if it expects not to be glassed.

2. We will intervene if you threaten shipping through the Malacca Straits; The 7th and 5th Fleet would plow the IN into the depths of the Sea if it dares to engage any of our shipping.

3. The United States can easily drop India and pick up Pakistan. Please do not take advantage of our good graces. India is only useful as long as it complies with our strategic interests.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

In case of this hypothetical war scenario, you say that the IN will be targeting Chinese merchant marine ships. Do you understand that these ships carry goods and services that are going to foreign countries; you're looking at goods worth billions of dollars destined for Europe, North America, South America, Africa etc. Any sinking of such merchant marine ships would be an attack on the goods of those countries. Not to mention many crewmen working on Chinese merchant ships are from foreign countries. Do you understand that that is violation of human rights and civil rights of those people? That would be met with condemnation by the United Nations and the United Nations Security Council.

Like I said, no one wants the Indian Navy imposing itself in those straits. We don't give a d@mn if India claims self defense, I'm telling you that if you started shooting at Chinese ships without prejudice and possibly harm shipping goods to the United States , Europe et al, you can expect the USN to plow your navy to the depths of the sea.

Please be realistic.



Please note that we would not be 'siding' with the Chinese. Our actions are to maintain and protect American strategic interests. Since USA is China's largest trading partner and largest importer of Chinese goods, most of those shipping that you would be targetting are purchased goods destined for the United States. Billions of Dollars worth of goods.

Do you honestly think that the United States would allow that? Those goods, alone, are worth double the entire Indian Navy.




At the end of this naval conflict, you would loose your entire Eastern and Western Fleet. The United States would mostly probably occupy Andaman and Nicobar Islands indefinitely.

As for occupy andaman,occupy afganisthan properly first and deal with iran's small navy.
Also get better tech to stop allied navies diesel subs from constantly sinking ur carriers in exercises for fun and also get defenses against supersonic missiles.And try to understand that USA is not sole occupant of this planet and its word is not law.
If it were u wouldn't be begging taliban for peace right now.

 

[USAHawk785]

I don't understand one thing.....a ship with oil headed from gulf towards chinese ports.IN sinks/siezes that[after letting sailors evacuate....what is the problem in war.And what economic damage of epic proportions u talking about that will occur from this to USA and europe?

Your original claim was to sink Chinese shipping, now you're changing it to Chinese oil tankers. You claim to sink Chinese shipping now you're rechanging your statement by saying you're going to let them go? lol.

As for occupy andaman,occupy afganisthan properly first and deal with iran's small navy.
Also get better tech to stop allied navies diesel subs from constantly sinking ur carriers in exercises for fun and also get defenses against supersonic missiles.And try to understand that USA is not sole occupant of this planet and its word is not law.
If it were u wouldn't be begging taliban for peace right now.

The issue is the Malacca Strait. Stick to the subject matter.

 

[USAHawk785]

A couple of sukhoi squadrons based in andaman armed with brahmos will be enough to shut down chinese merchant ships.
As for chinese attempting to prevent that any chinese armada will be greeted as it emerges from the malacca by a 3 dimensional threat.

From the air,sukhois with supersonic brahmos from our unsinkable aircraft carriers,and p-8I with harpoons.
From our surface fleet of 10 destroyers and 20+ frigates plus any carriers salvo after salvo of a combination of klub sizzler and brahmos,one coming high .one low.
From undersea our quiet diesel electric scorpenes and kilos will ambush PLAN naval force with torpedoes and KLub and exocet missiles.And the akula SSN will join in with its klubs as well.

Only a part of the PLAN can come this far away from home ports due to endurance,[u can rule out their diesel sub fleet to enter the region without detection] and it will be ambushed and assaulted from all sides if it tries to threaten us in our backyard.
Even us navy with AEGIS can't properly deal with klubs atm,
Navy Lacks Plan to Defend Against `Sizzler' Missile (Update1) - Bloomberg
Chinese s-300 copy will stand little chance against klub/brahmos/harpoon/exocet combos.
As for ASW,china has NO experience in ASW and lacks specialized ASW ships for blue water ops as well..they will be ambushed by our large fleet of diesel subs.Diesel subs are far more quieter and difficult to detect and killing a CBG is quite possible.Even chinese song got drop on us CBG kitty hawk in 2006,and if USN has nightmAre finding diesel subs
News

little hope for PLAN that has no naval tradition.

PLAN is not a true blue water navy and can't match IN in IOR,Despite bigger size on paper.Geography.training are important factors than just numbers on a paper.

I agree with you that the IN has a greater experience in naval tradition and experience than the PLAAN. I've met some good IN personnel back when I was deployed oversees in the USN.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Your original claim was to sink Chinese shipping, now you're changing it to Chinese oil tankers. You claim to sink Chinese shipping now you're rechanging your statement by saying you're going to let them go? lol.




The issue is the Malacca Strait. Stick to the subject matter.

Yes,the commodity vital to war economy is oil.Thats always been main threat.80% oil imports go through malacca and that is jugular.So chinese shipping and oil ships there is no difference..we sink a chinese ship carrying oil from gulf...what is ur problem,Actually i think USn would rather happy to watch chinese threat constantly threaening all countries of SE asia from japan,taiwan,vietnam,philipines,india taught a lesson.

 

[surya kiran]

India can completely choke the shipping traffic through Malacca straights, which accounts to almost 40% of worlds shipping. The Andaman and Nicobar island chain literally acts as a gate for the Malacca straights to enter Bay of Bengal. These islands are like unsinkable aircraft carriers sitting at the mouth of the Malcca straights.
If China feels it can control the shipping traffic between Pacific ocean and Indian ocean by controlling the South-China sea area, they are in for a big surprise. 80% of China's oil imports flows through the Malacca straights.

1. The Indian Navy's current ambitions are restricted upto the Malacca Straits. The area of interest and operations remains the IOR. Nothing more, nothing less.

2. The importance of the ANC is more to build bridges with the navies of the south east asia and not as a threat perception. This base will be our Diego Garcia. It is more sea denial to the Chinese Navy, which means blocking the entry from the east to the west, not stop traffic from west to east.

3. The IN has an extremely cordial relationship with the USN. If there was one arm of the Indian military which is engaging actively with the US, its the IN.

4. The IN is at-least 10 years away from any kind of domination in the IOR region. And in case you really want to dominate you need 4 CBGs, not 3 as currently planned. Which means you need one stationed at ANC.

5. The ANC is our outreach program for disaster relief and diplomacy to the south east asian states.

6. The Chinese focus is not the IOR, but the USN in the Pacific and the frolicking Japanese Navy.

7. The only aggressive stance of the IN will remain the Arabian Sea.

The IN as of date has not ambitions to project power beyond the Malacca straits. Not for the next 10 years and not till the full deployment of a unified command in Fortress Command.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

1. We don't care if India is a nuclear power, India is not stupid enough to dare launch any nuclear strikes on our military or shipping interests if it expects not to be glassed.

2. We will intervene if you threaten shipping through the Malacca Straits; The 7th and 5th Fleet would plow the IN into the depths of the Sea if it dares to engage any of our shipping.

3. The United States can easily drop India and pick up Pakistan. Please do not take advantage of our good graces. India is only useful as long as it complies with our strategic interests.

1.Agreed on nuclear thing.
2.Again i see how it affects economies if we sink a chinese oil tanker carrying oil from gulf to chinese ports.
3.By all means do so,become the primary backer of terrorism again.Fund the terrorists so they can slaughter ur soldiers and civilians at will.U did this before and it cost u thousands of civilains at 9/11 with pak backed taliban funded by ur money and then thousands of us soldiers died to talibs and haqqani network by your backed best freind pakistan.
As for india we have never begged u from our independence in 1947,we maintained non aligned posture ..despite sanctions didn't hurt as much as russia and france are always present alternatives.None of our critical military equipment is us origin..so we are not militarily dependant on u anyway.Drop us,go ahead..we did without u all these years we can do without u still.Go bully some small puppets of urs with 'aid' and 'backing'.

 

[Luffy 500]

China would do anything to secure influence around malaccan strait and IOR. IOR won't become some delusional countries personal property, it never was and never will be for the foreseeable future. USN is the big Dog in this region and PLAN along with IN and regional navies will have fait share of the pie in Malaccan Strait and in & around IOR. China won't miss the opportunity Gwadar provides them which will also compel them to have a robust presence in IOR for justifiable obvious logical reasons which would also enhance stability in the region. SO morons talking about "fall" of china are living in fantasy driven bollywood world.

 

[BDforever]

3.By all means do so,become the primary backer of terrorism again.Fund the terrorists so they can slaughter ur soldiers and civilians at will.U did this before and it cost u thousands of civilains at 9/11 with pak backed taliban funded by ur money and then thousands of us soldiers died to talibs and haqqani network by your backed best freind pakistan.
As for india we have never begged u from our independence in 1947,we maintained non aligned posture ..despite sanctions didn't hurt as much as russia and france are always present alternatives.None of our critical military equipment is us origin..so we are not militarily dependant on u anyway.Drop us,go ahead..we did without u all these years we can do without u still.Go bully some small puppets of urs with 'aid' and 'backing'.

and who will believe you when your own people disclose something like this ?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...ovt-behind-mumbai-attacks-satish-verma-2.html

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

China would do anything to secure influence around malaccan strait and IOR. IOR won't become some delusional countries personal property, it never was and never will be for the foreseeable future. USN is the big Dog in this region and PLAN along with IN and regional navies will have fait share of the pie in Malaccan Strait and in & around IOR. China won't miss the opportunity Gwadar provides them which will also compel them to have a robust presence in IOR for justifiable obvious logical reasons which would also enhance stability in the region. SO morons talking about "fall" of china are living in fantasy driven bollywood world.

No one is talking about 'fall' of china,but china will be taught a lesson if its attempts unprovoked aggression .

and who will believe you when your own people disclose something like this ?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...ovt-behind-mumbai-attacks-satish-verma-2.html

Rubbish conspiracy theories again,were the orders from karachi coming via satellite phone staged too?
WAS david headley caught in USA staged?
Just stop already and return to topic.

 

[Luffy 500]

No one is talking about 'fall' of china,but china will be taught a lesson if its attempts unprovoked aggression .

There is no reason for CHina to provoke war and it won't happen unless its rightful place & rising stature is recognized by US and given its due room for practising influence in Asia. Policies such as Asian pivot won't help US. China is not 19th century germany and in time US will realize that just like how Russians realized that. It would be better for other small players dreaming of countering china also realizes that.