TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Glass]

One of the things that grinds gears is the fact that we haven't acquired any of our tracked or 8x8 IFVs. We have tons of programs yet we don't buy any. "Oh we need IFVs? Just buy another 500 Kirpi's. It'll keep Ethem Sancak happy."

I would also like to know why they are shying away from purchasing armas 8x8 or pars 8x8 but thats another topic.

 

[TheMightyBender]

Life extension means signing deal with lockheed martin
Of course the american defense company(LM) would be more than happy to execute the deal but what about US congress??
Drones are not the real answer but currently they are the best alternative if Turkey doesn’t want to back down from her aggressive/assertive foreign policy in syria/libya/cyprus/n.iraq

First of all I am not completely sure but TAI may be capable of the task.

But even if not our defence relations with the US is not as bad as you think. TAI is license producing Turkish modified blackhawks (T-70) as we speak. We also buy engines for our Atak helicopters and MMU prototypes and lots of other products from the US. Service Life extension of F-16s is nothing compared to that.

Drones are good tools for surgical strikes but they are severely limited in a battlefield with a capable enemy. Turkey needs air superiority and heavy strike options. During the spring shield operation Turkey was extremely close to getting into a full blown war with another country. If such a thing happens drones will be almost completely useless. The only possible use that I foresee is to use the drones as bait to lure out enemy jets and air defenses.

Akinci is purported to have some air to air capabilities. I believe that could be usefull against a country with low level of aerial defence such as Syria or for shooting down UAE drones out of Libyan skies. But if we get into anything more serious than that we absolutely must have capable jets.

I reiterate. Drones are useful, but they are not and cannot be a replacement for fighters. And we need fighters.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Why we cant just produce single engined mmu prototype with dimensions of F-16 with a seperate project than mmu. After that we can transfer all systems-Subsystems of F-16 to this body with Özgür project.

Stealth body + F-16 + Özgür Modernization ( National Aesa, Mission Computer, Flight Computer, Mfd etc.) İt would be very good alternative for us.

Him cant be more stealth. İf they can be 110+ km undetectable (kgk and bvr aa missile range) it's enough.

On the other hand there is much more F-16 in the world can be modernizable. İf it succesfull we can modernize 1000 around F-16 . May be we can co-operate with usa on the export stage.

Ok thats very hard but I think nothing hard then making 5 th gen stealth figter from zero like we did.

 

[-------]

Why we cant just produce single engined mmu prototype with dimensions of F-16 with a seperate project than mmu. After that we can transfer all systems-Subsystems of F-16 to this body with Özgür project.

Stealth body + F-16 + Özgür Modernization ( National Aesa, Mission Computer, Flight Computer, Mfd etc.) İt would be very good alternative for us.

Him cant be more stealth. İf they can be 110+ km undetectable (kgk and bvr aa missile range) it's enough.

On the other hand there is much more F-16 in the world can be modernizable. İf it succesfull we can modernize 1000 around F-16 . May be we can co-operate with usa on the export stage.

Ok thats very hard but I think nothing hard then making 5 th gen stealth figter from zero like we did.

Why would you use up the man-power and the brains to develop something that will not be used? We don't have unlimited resources dude.

 

[Nefarious]

Are BAE systems and Rolls Royce on board for TFX?

 

[-------]

Are BAE systems and Rolls Royce on board for TFX?

BAE Systems for the first phase of the project. Rolls Royce is not part of the project, but they have offered an engine development deal.

 

[Faith_of_the_Fallen]

Are BAE systems and Rolls Royce on board for TFX?

Not yet for the engine development, due to Erdoğan's insistance on making Qatar partner in the intellectual right of the MMU engine. MMU project could be in a much better place, if the engine problem could have been resolved; now it is a big uncertainty for the design stage. I dont understand why hapless people keep interfering in and effectively stalling defense projects for the sake of Erdoğan's own personal ambition to force foreigners to add Qatar into the equation. They will not and scrap the deal. Why do we have to sacrifice the needs and benefits of Turkey, just for the sake of Qatar.I really do not understand .....

 

[renegademaster]

Not yet for the engine development, due to Erdoğan's insistance on making Qatar partner in the intellectual right of the MMU engine. MMU project could be in a much better place, if the engine problem could have been resolved; now it is a big uncertainty for the design stage. I dont understand why hapless people keep interfering in and effectively stalling defense projects for the sake of Erdoğan's own personal ambition to force foreigners to add Qatar into the equation. They will not and scrap the deal. Why do we have to sacrifice the needs and benefits of Turkey, just for the sake of Qatar.I really do not understand .....

Because Qatar is his Muslim Brotherhood bros and they're also his bank. Turkey is running on credit from Qatar.

Also I don't see why BAE systems and Rolls Royce would give even Turkey technology transfer and intellectual rights to their proprietary technology for which they've invested billions of dollars and countless man hours to develop.

 

[Rogue1]

Because Qatar is his Muslim Brotherhood bros and they're also his bank. Turkey is running on credit from Qatar.

Protection doesn't come cheap.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Why we cant just produce single engined mmu prototype with dimensions of F-16 with a seperate project than mmu. After that we can transfer all systems-Subsystems of F-16 to this body with Özgür project.

Stealth body + F-16 + Özgür Modernization ( National Aesa, Mission Computer, Flight Computer, Mfd etc.) İt would be very good alternative for us.

Him cant be more stealth. İf they can be 110+ km undetectable (kgk and bvr aa missile range) it's enough.

On the other hand there is much more F-16 in the world can be modernizable. İf it succesfull we can modernize 1000 around F-16 . May be we can co-operate with usa on the export stage.

Ok thats very hard but I think nothing hard then making 5 th gen stealth figter from zero like we did.

Dont you Think Hurjet will do the same job you mentioned? especially when it is called a train aircraft but we all know that are capable to become like Swedish NG version

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Dont you Think Hurjet will do the same job you mentioned? especially when it is called a train aircraft but we all know that are capable to become like Swedish NG version

Can be if he will have aesa radar, jchms, mfd etc. But his engine not be greater than F-16.

 

[renegademaster]

Protection doesn't come cheap.

Turkey already had NATO protection and was also a manufacturing partner. Not only that but Turkey was to provide parts, maintenance and service to all F-35 fleets including European and Israeli F-35s which not would provide a lot of jobs and billions of USD to Turkey's aerospace industry every year but would guarantee further protection by all allies who operate F-35 since no one would want to see their fleet maintenance headquarters under jeopardy.

That way Turkey could focus on economy, technology development with Western partners instead of playing around with Indonesia and Malaysia and have F-35 and NATO missile defense system at the same time.

Now Turkey doesn't have F-35, ended up buying a SAM that won't work with its NATO systems like NATO missile defense radars or warly warning aircraft like AWACS which would render its S-400s less efficient than would be if integrated into a complete defensive system, and Turkey lost the trust of the West and a project like F-35 won't come along again (where Turkey is also a manufacturing and maintenance/service partner).

TF-X won't happen imo. It'll be too expensive and I doubt Rolls Royce or BAE systems will allow tech transfer. Besides, any US sanctions will see those companies abiding with as they're involved in many US defensive projects and won't risk losing US business for Turkey's aircraft.

Other projects (missile, SAM) are feasible but imo Turkey made a mistake by action out of unison with the rest of NATO alliance for short term gain. Not having S-400 doesn't make Israel, Germany, France unsafe. It wouldn't have made Turkey unsafe either. Turkey will still need her own missile defense system or a NATO one to plug and play with its NATO systems.

 

[xbat]

TF-X won't happen imo

Turkey will make it! no matter how BEA or RR behavior.

 

[Glass]

Turkey already had NATO protection

Nope last example is Idlib so bullshit.

 

[renegademaster]

Nope last example is Idlib so bullshit.

If you look at it from their perspective, it would be bs if they gave Turkey the Patriots in Idlib after all the bs Turkey pulled with NATO and America and S-400, threatening to "show" NATO it can change sides for "interests".

Also Turkey's presence in Syria is offensive and doesn't grant NATO protection. But NATO was the main reason Russia did not retaliate Turkey shooting down Russian plane a few years ago.