Tejas, long wait for nothing

[C130]

A vedic shot turns 4 gen into 4.5 gen

when I think of 4.5 gen I picture this

I guess Typhoon and Rafale could be consider 4.5 as well.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

You need to get degree in Aerospace to see the difference.The point is most Pakistanis on PDF are fanboy and teens or defence enthusiast who Lack subjective and Technical knowledge of such delicate technical debate's

You may be correct on degree and technical knowledge of Aerospace Engineering.

 

[Paksanity]

Timeline of HAL Tejas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1983-DRDO obtained permission to initiate a programme to design and develop a Light Combat Aircraft

1986- Programme to develop an indigenous powerplant (engine)-Kaveri[1] was launched at GTRE


all the while this beauty was already flying and looking for customers

Silent admirer of F-20 here.

It is a shame it never found a customer. Nothing wrong with aircraft. It was miles ahead of its time. Only if US government had a little love for it. I always felt Pakistan should have bought design and tooling for it. I believe Northrop had them preserved.

If you had forward looking minds in US establishment, they should have brought out the design and offered it to their non NATO, low budget allies. That would keep them with US technology and competed very successfully against Russian, Chinese and European sales. Well what can we say now.

 

[gslv mk3]

what makes it 4.5 gen

Mark 2

A vedic shot turns 4 gen into 4.5 gen

Shoo off

 

[HariPrasad]

There is a lots of butt hurt now a days because Tejas will face off against those chines planes and people will witness the superiority over them.

 

[NKVD]

Mark 2

I Think Even LCA 1A will Come Under 4+ gen category with Upgrades

1. Elta 2052 AESA & Derby ER
2. EW Suite My Favourable Will be Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE)Virgilius family of directional jammers & DRFMs Developed For LCA Mk1 & Mig 29 UPG

when I think of 4.5 gen I picture this

I guess Typhoon and Rafale could be consider 4.5 as well.

There Various Claims Made Different Experts
Let them State Few or You

Hallion classification

While not endorsed by the U.S. Air Force Air University, Richard P. Hallion proposed a classification in 1990 :

1. High subsonic (1943–50): little aerodynamic difference from the last generation of propeller-driven fighters. First- and second-generation turbojets; wood, fabric, and all-metal construction; optical gunsights; straight wing and straight tail. Mechanical control systems. Primitive ejection seats. Mach 0.75-0.85. Me 262, Gloster Meteor, P-80, DH Vampire, Yak-15, MiG-9, Saab 21R, F-84 Thunderjet, F9F Panther, Dassault Ouragan, DH Venom.
2. Transonic (1947–55): Second-generation turbojets; radar gunsights; swept wings; generally have adjustable horizontal stabilizers. Early hydromechanical flight control systems. Mach 0.90-1.05. F-86, F-84 Thunderstreak, F9F Cougar, MiG-15, MiG-17, Hawker Hunter, Dassault Mystère IV.
3. Early supersonic (1953–60): Swept wings, all-moving tails, radar gunsights, introduction of air-to-air missile armament. Third-generation turbojet engines. Early stability augmentation technology. Generally adaptable for both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. Mach 1.3. MiG-19, F-100, F-8.
4. Supersonic (limited purpose) (1955–70): Supersonic aerodynamics, especially area ruling; fourth-generation turbojets; radar for search and fire control. Overreliance on -air-to-air missiles based on unrealistic expectations. Mach 2.0. F-104, early model MiG-21, English Electric Lightning, early model Mirage III.
5. Supersonic (multirole) (1958–80): Refined supersonic aerodynamic design, including canards and variable geometry wings; fourth- and fifth-generation engines; stability augmentation; mixed-gun air-to-air missile (AAM) armament; terrain-following radar for low-level high-speed flight; radar search and fire control; infrared sensors; heads up displays (HUD); laser ranging and targeting; wide range of air-to-surface missiles, bombs, and rockets, including precision-guided munitions. Mach 1.4-2.5. F-105, F-4, late-model MiG-21, late-model Mirage III, F-5, F-111, Mirage V, Su-24, MiG-23, MiG-27, Sepecat Jaguar, Mirage F1, Kfir.
6. Supersonic multirole, high efficiency (1974–present): Combined the characteristics of the fifth-generation fighters with advances in propulsion, radar (multiple target track-while-scan, look-down/shoot-down), sensor, and electronic flight control technology to generate highly maneuverable, highly agile aircraft that can be swing-roled for air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. Fifth- or sixth-generation gas-turbine engines; engine thrust-to-weight ratios in excess of one; ability to attain supersonic speeds without afterburning; sustained high-G flight, and controllability below 70 knots at angles of attack exceeding 70 degrees. High degree of energy efficiency. Mix of cannonand missile armament, coupled with diverse air-to-ground weaponry. Mach 1.8-2.5. F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18,Mirage 2000, Panavia Tornado, MiG-29, Su-27.

Aerospaceweb Classification

In 2004 the self-published website Aerospaceweb noted that the classification usage appears to have first appeared in Russia during the mid-1990s when officials were planning a competitor to the American Joint Strike Fighter and proposed a classification :

• 1. 1945 to 1955, similar in capability to piston-engined fighter, thrust limited early jet engines, subsonic, rare radars, conventional armament (guns, bombs, rockets) : Me 262, F-86, MiG-15, etc.
• 2. 1955 to 1960, supersonic in level flight, radar, first air-to-air missiles : F-102, F-104, F-105, F-106, MiG-19, MiG-21, Gloster Javelin, Dassault Mirage III, Saab Draken
• 3. 1960 to 1970, multi-purpose fighter-bombers : F-4, F-5, F-8, MiG-23, MiG-25, Mig-27, Su-15, Su-17/20/22, British Aerospace Harrier, Mirage F1, Super Etendard, J-8II,Yak-38
• 4. 1970 to 1990, emphasizing maneuverability rather than speed : F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, AV-8B, MiG-29, MiG-31, Su-27, Su-33,Yak-141 , Panavia Tornado,Mirage 2000, Viggen, Mitsubishi F-2, AIDC Ching-Kuo, Chengdu J-10, HAL LCA
• 4.5. 1990 to 2000, enhanced capabilities, advanced avionics, limited Stealth technology characteristics : F-18E/F, Su-30, Su-34, Su-35, Mig-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen, Dassault Rafale
• 5. 2000-, advanced integrated avionics, low observable "stealth" techniques : F-22, F-35

Air Force Magazine classification

In 2009, Air Force Magazine tried to define fighter generations and proposed a sixth :

• 1. Jet propulsion : F-80, Me 262
• 2. Swept wings; range radar; infrared missiles : F-86, MiG-15
• 3. Supersonic, pulse radar, Beyond-visual-range missiles : Century Series, F-105, F-4, MiG-17, MiG-21
• 4. Pulse-doppler radar; high maneuverability; look-down/shoot-down missiles : F-15, F-16, Mirage 2000, MiG-29.
• 4+. High agility; sensor fusion; reduced radar signature : Eurofighter Typhoon, Su-30, F/A-18E/F, Rafale
• 4++. Active electronically scanned arrays; continued reduced signatures or “active” (waveform canceling) stealth technology, supercruise : Su-35, F-15SE
• 5. All-aspect stealth with internal weapons bays, extreme agility, full-sensor fusion, integrated avionics, some or full supercruise : F-22, F-35,
• 6: extreme stealth, morphing capability, smart skins, highly networked, extremely sensitive sensors, optionally manned, directed energy weapons.

The 5th generation was expanded to the PAK FA and the Chengdu J-20 by the self-published website The Aviationist

Winchester classification

In his book published in 2011 by the Rosen Publishing Group, Jim Winchester proposed a classification :

• 1. 1942–1950. from World War II to the Korean War, similar construction to their propeller driven fighter, 1st and 2nd generation turbojets : Me 262, Gloster Meteor, MiG 15, F-86
• 2. 1950–1965. onboard radar, infrared homing missiles
• 3. 1965–1975. look-down/shoot-down, RF air-to-air missiles, Terrain awareness and warning systems, Air-to-surface missiles with electro-optical guidance (e.g.AGM-65 Maverick), laser-guided bombs : F-4
• 4. 1975–2005. relaxed stability by fly-by-wire, digital computers, Active electronically scanned array, Infra-red search and track : F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18
• 4+, 4++. 1986- high capacity data-link
• 5. 2005–2025. minimized radar cross-section (chines instead of standard leading edge extensions or canards, internal weapon bays), composite materials,commercial off-the-shelf processors, consolidated view of the battlespace, low observable data links.

Air Power Development Centre Bulletin classification


The Royal Australian Air Force Air Power Development Centre Bulletin, while not endorsed by the RAAF, proposed a classification in 2012:

• 1. mid 1940s to mid 1950s. subsonic, no radars or self-protection countermeasures, unguided bombs and unguided rockets, no afterburners : F-86, MiG-15,MiG-17
• 2. mid-1950s to early 1960s. air-to-air radar, semi-active guided and infrared missiles, radar warning receivers, supersonic level flight : F-104, F-5, MiG-19, MiG-21
• 3. early 1960s to 1970. multi-role fighters, look-down/shoot-down, off-bore-sight targeting, Semi-active radar homing missiles, beyond visual range : MiG-23, F-4, Mirage III
• 4. 1970 to late 1980s. head-up displays, fly-by-wire, Swing-role fighters : MiG-29, Su-27, F/A-18, F-15, F-16, Mirage 2000
• 4.5. late 1980s into the 90s. (half generation from a reduction in military spending) stealth technology, Radar-absorbent materials, thrust vectoring, Active Electronically Scanned Array radar, Network Warfare, multirole missions : F/A-18E/F, F-15SE, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen, Dassault Rafale
• 5. 2005- stealth technology, multispectral sensors, networked : F-22, F-35, PAK FA, Chengdu J-20

 

[Umair Nawaz]

NEW DELHI:The Comptroller and auditor general (CAG) has come down heavily on India’s Light Combat Aircraft Tejas project, which has been under development for over three decades. CAG slammed the Mark-I version of Tejas by saying it has several(53) shortcomings and does not meet Indian Air Force specifications.

CAG report on LCA project, which was tabled in the Parliament on Friday, further said that IAF would be “constrained” to induct the fighter LCA without availability of a trainer model, thereby “adversely impacting pilot training”.

The CAG noted that it was due to the delay in the manufacture and supply of LCA that IAF had to go for alternative temporary measures such as upgrading its MIG BIS, MiG-29, Jaguar, and Mirage aircraft at a cost of `20,037 crore to overcome its depleting combat strength.

Listing the shortcomings, the CAG said that the LCA Mark-I fails to meet the electronic warfare capabilities sought by IAF as the Self-Protection Jammer could not be fitted on the aircraft due to space constraints.

Also, it said that the Radar Warning Receiver/Counter Measure Dispensing System fitted on the aircraft had raised performance concerns which are yet to be overcome (January 2015).

The LCA Mark-I, which got Initial Operational Clearance in December, 2013, significantly falls short (20 permanent waivers/33 temporary concessions) in meeting the Air Staff Requirement (ASR) that has led to its reduced operational employability, the CAG said.

It added that the shortcomings in the Mark-I (increased weight, reduced internal fuel capacity, non-compliance of fuel system protection, pilot protection from front, reduced speed) are expected to be overcome in the Mark-II model.

“LCA Mark-I does not meet the ASR. The deficiencies are now expected to be met in LCA Mark-II by December 2018,” the CAG said.

While DRDO has always showcased LCA, christened Tejas, as an indigenously-developed aircraft and the indigenous content of the LCA was estimated by ADA to be 70 per cent, the CAG said it “actually worked out to about 35 per cent” as of January this year.

Systems such as Kaveri engine, Multi-Mode Radar, Radome, Multi-Functional Display System and Flight Control System Actuators taken up for indigenous development could not be developed successfully, resulting in LCA’s continued dependence on the import of these systems, CAG said.

IAF had proposed in the early 1980s that a new aircraft had to be developed to replace the MiG-21 fleet, manufactured during 1966 and 1987, after its phasing out in the 1990s.

India's shame!

 

[prasadr14]

A vedic shot turns 4 gen into 4.5 gen

Can we bring in a flying horse to discussion?
If we do, do we get banned?

Just asking for clarification on rules here?

 

[desimorty]

F-20 was to be a cheap fighter as Tejas is


both use GE-404 engine. heck you could take the body of the F-20 and add in Israeli avonics/radar and you would have a fighter that would be on the same level as Tejas-1

Source: Tejas, long wait for nothing | Page 8

Wouldn't have the performance needed for LEH with that configuration.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Why is this even a news?

I subscribed to multiple military forums & every single members I know (sans Indian fanboys) has concluded Tejas to be a flying trash can.

In Timawa forum the Tejas is pretty much regarded as a cautionary tale.

JF-17 at least have its charm & some good points to be had.

early 1980's F-20 Tigershark better than the LCA-Tejas 1

I love the Tigershark Back when I was a kid everyone love the Tomcat (Cause of Top Gun), but me I love the Tigershark.

 

[Chika_Pika]

A vedic shot turns 4 gen into 4.5 gen

@waz sir please understand that what Quran to Muslims are, Vedas to Hindus.
He is unnecessary bringing religion in this

hahahaha love u too



Them typhoon and Rafale can't be considered 4.5 as they haven't visited Vedic Surgeon

@waz again

Why is this even a news?

I subscribed to multiple military forums & every single members I know (sans Indian fanboys) has concluded Tejas to be a flying trash can.

In Timawa forum the Tejas is pretty much regarded as a cautionary tale.[/QUOTE
]

 

[gslv mk3]

I subscribed to multiple military forums & every single members I know (sans Indian fanboys) has concluded Tejas to be a flying trash can.

In Timawa forum the Tejas is pretty much regarded as a cautionary tale.

Typical Chinese BS

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Typical Chinese BS

Typical Indian fanboy BS

 

[gslv mk3]

Typical Indian fanboy BS

 

[gslv mk3]