T-LORAMIDS Tender | Updates & Discussion

[mahatir]

Your maybe right but you also have to admit that most arabs doesnt understand why a muslim country defines itself as secular, however the current events on the other hand shows that minds are changing these days in ME.

There are more arabs in PDF supporting or at least who are fine with secularism in politic than i thought, you, @Yzd Khalifa and @mahatir for instance

Atleast thats what i saw so far.

Ataturk understood this 100 years ago , to unite Sunnis , Alevis , shia and sufis of Turkey he had to built a state based on nationhood rather than sectarianism . Religion is like fire , it burns those who play with it first , better to keep it out of political life for the safety of all .

 

[al-Hasani]

Your maybe right but you also have to admit that most arabs doesnt understand why a muslim country defines itself as secular, however the current events on the other hand shows that minds are changing these days in ME.

There are more arabs in PDF supporting or at least who are fine with secularism in politic than i thought, you, @Yzd Khalifa and @mahatir for instance

Atleast thats what i saw so far.

Secularism was practiced in the Arab world to a degree even during the Caliphates. Not to mention the period dominated by Arab nationalism. People just don't know history well enough. Simple as that.

The rise of "Islamism" or what you call it in the modern Muslim world can be dated back to the so-called Iranian revolution in 1979 and the subsequent Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

For example the formation of the MB in Egypt never really had an influence outside it's borders before the 1980's.

 

[xenon54 out]

political islam failed in solving people problems , look at Egypt a 85% Sunni state people there moved out against the MB and the same goes for other countries .

As we have witnessed past 3 years , religions when mixed with politics leads to civil war and turmoil like whats happening now in Syria and Iraq.

You mean this?
Tunisia's Islamist government to resign and pave way for fresh elections | World news | theguardian.com

 

[mahatir]

Well i think secularism could be a solution for many conflicts in ME, maybe not for countrys like KSA with a homogeneous population and religion, but for countrys like Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt.

Egyptians understood that by getting rid of MB , the problem remains with clowns in Syria and Iraq when they realize nation is far more important that religion.

Iran does not have religious problem , most people there are not really attached to religion , its only the mulla minority ruling the country , like in last elections they voted for the most moderate candidate available .

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Yes, the region is being set on fire over ideological variations

Well i think secularism could be a solution for many conflicts in ME, maybe not for countrys like KSA with a homogeneous population and religion, but for countrys like Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt.

Yeah, KSA is an exception. A %100 Muslim population.

 

[xenon54 out]

Secularism was practiced in the Arab world to a degree even during the Caliphates. Not to mention the period dominated by Arab nationalism. People just don't know history well enough. Simple as that.

The rise of "Islamism" or what you call it in the modern Muslim world can be dated back to the so-called Iranian revolution in 1979 and the subsequent Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

For example the formation of the MB in Egypt never really had an influence outside it's borders before the 1980's.

Your right until 70s there was no such things like radical islamists but we are talkin about today.

 

[-SINAN-]

S400 is a good missile defence system, however compare to this, it is still a toy.

That's why China is not really impressed by S400 even it is a very good one.

Dong Neng-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, it is impressive piece of hardware but it can't be compared with S400.

It would be same as comparing an apple with and orange. They have both different purposes.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

How could these Taiwanese have found out that this is yet-under-development?

Taiwanese are just a bunch of ostriches who hide their head under the sand to avoid the truth, they are afraid that a China with too much power will prevent their US daddy to save them from the invasion of PRC.

BTW, PRC gives them a chance to improve their economy and relationship, yet these idiots still hold a cold war paranoid mentality.

China shows off the DF-31A, then DF-41 is clearly deployed, but those Taiwanese cowards are afraid of this truth and don't want to admit it.

 

[mahatir]

You mean this?
Tunisia's Islamist government to resign and pave way for fresh elections | World news | theguardian.com

Islamists in Tunisia are more progressive than Islamist monkeys in other Arab countries , they at-least accept Tunisia remaining a semi-secular state without sharia law .

The same goes for Egypt to and some other Arab countries , Iraq government is now attempting to reduce their sectarian policies and adopt secularism .

It will take time but at least there is geniune belief among Arabs in countries like iraq it is time to limit sectarian language as they all suffered from civil wars that crippled and sent back their countries to stone age.

Assad himself now is considering this idea and cut all his links with islamists groups like hamas .

Your right until 70s there was no such things like radical islamists but we are talkin about today.

Today we all agree that poltical islam is a complete failure apart from some clowns attached to alqauda

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Well, it is impressive piece of hardware but it can't be compared with S400.

It would be same as comparing an apple with and orange. They have both different purposes.

The ceiling of DN-2: 36000km

The ceiling of S400-40N6: 185km

They are not the same, if DN-2 is a Aegis destroyer, then S400-40N6 is a corvette, but a very good corvette.

However, if China can build a very advanced Aegis destroyer, then why it has to buy a good corvette from Russia? China can build a corvette as good as Russia's, since it is much easier to build than a large complex destroyer.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

I wouldn't mess with the Chinese either

BTW, PRC gives them a chance to improve their economy and relationship, yet these idiots still hold a cold war paranoid mentality.

China shows off the DF-31A, then DF-41 is clearly deployed, but those Taiwanese cowards are afraid of this truth and don't want to admit it

LoLz. China isn't North Korea or Iran; when they reveal something they mean it.

I understand that they are scared to the bones of China, but if I may ask, what is the general public opinion about them in mainland China?

Taiwanese are just a bunch of ostriches who hide their head under the sand to avoid the truth, they are afraid that a China with too much power will prevent their US daddy to save them from the invasion of PRC.

BTW, PRC gives them a chance to improve their economy and relationship, yet these idiots still hold a cold war paranoid mentality.

China shows off the DF-31A, then DF-41 is clearly deployed, but those Taiwanese cowards are afraid of this truth and don't want to admit it.

 

[xenon54 out]

Today we all agree that poltical islam is a complete failure apart from some clowns attached to alqauda

Yeah and thats why erdogan is angry about the coup in Egypt, the only reason why he didnt fail yet is that he didnt touch the secular system of Turkey.
He know very well what this would effect, he said he wants a presidial system so he can be the president but the latest polls showed that about 65% of population is against that system, thats why theres no referandum about this.

 

[gr8vision]

I think this is the answer for why Turkey didn't go for a western system.
Turkey had three criteria for this procurement,in addition to lowest price,the contenders had to fulfill these demands...

By these points, the clear winner is S-300, as its radar's range and range of its missiles are greater, than HQ-9. Patriot is clearly a loser, as it is not a strategic air-defense system.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I wouldn't mess with the Chinese either





LoLz. China isn't North Korea or Iran; when they reveal something they mean it.

Only weaklings need to boast themselves, but China doesn't need to boast.

When China is pissed off, it will just test some new secret weapons without publically announces it, and the US government will know it and also will not tell it, but some of their military experts will declare it since they are really insterested of making more analysis on China's weapon and technology.

China will not openly boast and threaten, but it will secretly flex some muscles. We have a different way to express ourselves from Russians/Iranians/North Koreans.

 

[gr8vision]

S400 is a good missile defence system, however compare to this, it is still a toy.

That's why China is not really impressed by S400 even it is a very good one.

Dong Neng-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is it why "unimpressed" China has ordered S-400's from Russia and is ready to wait for them until after 2017 ? I guess the term "not really impressed" has a different meaning and understanding for you.

The ceiling of DN-2: 36000km

The ceiling of S400-40N6: 185km

They are not the same, if DN-2 is a Aegis destroyer, then S400-40N6 is a corvette, but a very good corvette.

However, if China can build a very advanced Aegis destroyer, then why it has to buy a good corvette from Russia? China can build a corvette as good as Russia's, since it is much easier to build than a large complex destroyer.

36,000 km?!?!?! Where is that crazy number from? Are you serious? Do you really think anyone would believe this number? Maybe 36,000m - as in meters (36 km)? ;-)