T-LORAMIDS Tender | Updates & Discussion

[ChineseTiger1986]

Of course, you and other Chinese forum members know better than:

1) Russian state agency RIA: Russia Looking at China S-400 Deliveries in 2017 | World | RIA Novosti

2) Chinese news: Russia sells China S-400 surface-to-air missiles | China Daily Mail

Note this: "Kanwa’s article believes that China wants to get Russian technology to improve its Hongqi-9 surface-to-air missiles, which has only a range of 125 kilometres. In order to lengthen its range, it needs a new generation of engine, and improvement of its filling technology. The 380 kilometre range of the S-400..."

You guys are desperate for S-400 to be able, for the first time, to completely cover the airspace over Taiwan. You also want to reverse-engineer the S-400 so that you can offer HQ-20 or whatever you will designate it. Russia won't care after 2017 anyways, because it will start producing S-500. ;-)

Even the Chinese medias usually quote the statement from the foreign media, but when it comes to the decision, it was made by the department of defense.

Despite the rumor of Su-35 always flying around, but the depart of defense still denies any purchase of Su-35, same for S400.

This is from a Russian website in Chinese.

¶íÐÂÍø_¶íÖйØϵ_°²È«·ÀÎñ_Öз½²µ³â¿ÉÄÜ´Ó¶í·½²É¹º48¼ÜËÕ-35Õ½»úµÄ±¨µÀ

 

[xenon54 out]

bro we all want this quite stable life without any censorship , basically its all written in Ataturk books , its just we have to read it well to get the answers for our current day problems that were answered by him 100 years ago .

The problem is that some corrupt kemalist goverments from last decades in Turkey damaged Atatürks image, its really sad because they made some people think Atatürk was a enemy of islam which is not true.

The first National Assembly was held on a friday after praying in a mosque, it was Atatürks order to this because he believed it would bring luck if the first meeting was held on the holy friday.
Would a enemy of islam do this?

Atatürks telegraph about this.
http://www.bulgaristanturkleri.8m.com/rich_text_3.html

 

[gr8vision]

Okay, things will go sour after this point.

We repeatedly told you that the decision for selection HQ-9 based on ToT. ToT means Technology of transfer which other contenders failed to offer.

It is not hard to understand right ?




A blog for source....... okaay

Sinan, since you are not a decision maker sitting in Ankara in the PM's office or the Army HQ, then your guess is as good as anyone's. ToT could certainly be a factor - but it does not invalidate possible corruption.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

A blog for source....... okaay

It was a very old news, since most of PDF members here knew this news in almost 4 years ago.

It was reported by both Chinese and Western media, as for the second open test in January 2013, the Western media didn't create too much noise, since they don't wanna admit the advanced technological achievement made by the Chinese.

China conducts test on ground-based midcourse missile interception _English_Xinhua

 

[gr8vision]

Even the Chinese medias usually quote the statement from the foreign media, but when it comes to the decision, it was made by the department of defense.

Despite the rumor of Su-35 always flying around, but the depart of defense still denies any purchase of Su-35, same for S400.

This is from a Russian website in Chinese.

¶íÐÂÍø_¶íÖйØϵ_°²È«·ÀÎñ_Öз½²µ³â¿ÉÄÜ´Ó¶í·½²É¹º48¼ÜËÕ-35Õ½»úµÄ±¨µÀ

I don't care about Su-35 and this thread is not about Su-35. Please don't try to intentionally confuse people and wiezel out of being caught red-handed. The fact of the matter is that China wanted to buy S-400 and has agreed with Russia about deliveries in 2017. There are plenty of news about it, including from official Russian sources. Russia is not in a hurry to sell S-400 - in fact, it won't be selling them until after 2017 anyways, since it is producing them only for its own army for now. It only wants to sell S-300VM (Antey 2500) - so there is no incentive for Russia to lie about China wanting to buy S-400. Anyhow, numerous facts were presented showing that you are wrong - China wants to get S-400 and will be getting them in 2017. Which means Chinese ABM/SAM technology is far inferior and behind Russia's.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I don't care about Su-35 and this thread is not about Su-35. Please don't try to intentionally confuse people and wiezel out of being caught red-handed. The fact of the matter is that China wanted to buy S-400 and has agreed with Russia about deliveries in 2017. There are plenty of news about it, including from official Russian sources. Russia is not in a hurry to sell S-400 - in fact, it won't be selling them until after 2017 anyways, since it is producing them only for its own army for now. It only wants to sell S-300VM (Antey 2500) - so there is no incentive for Russia to lie about China wanting to buy S-400. Anyhow, numerous facts were presented showing that you are wrong - China wants to get S-400 and will be getting them in 2017. Which means Chinese ABM/SAM technology is far inferior and behind Russia's.

China will not buy any S400, period.

We are still 4 years away from 2017, do you want to take a bet with me if China would buy S400 at that time?

Since i am a well-known residential PDF member, i will be here in 2017 for sure.

 

[-SINAN-]

Sinan, since you are not a decision maker sitting in Ankara in the PM's office or the Army HQ, then your guess is as good as anyone's. ToT could certainly be a factor - but it does not invalidate possible corruption.

Yeap, since i'am not a decision maker, you shouldn't cross out the possibility of "Chinese forced SSM to take that decision by telekinesis". This would be more logical.

 

[truthseeker2010]

At the beggining of program, It was planned to produce 4+4+4 batteries but I don't know whether There are some changes applied or not...

so a total of 12 batteries... yea i also red somewhere else of 12 systems.... with $4 billion for 12 batteries it looks a quite accurate estimate.

 

[gr8vision]

China will not buy any S400, period.

We are still 4 years away from 2017, do you want to take a bet with me if China would buy S400 at that time?

Since i am a well-known residential PDF member, i will be here in 2017 for sure.

To bet with you? It seems some of the forum members have a very inflated sense of self-worth. No offense, but you are a nobody in the world of Chinese military production, acquisition, development, production, and exports. Hence, it would be stupid for anyone to "bet" with you about something that you have zero control over. If you want to bet, go to a casino - Macao offers world's biggest casino's, by the way, so spend your money there. Or I invite you to Las Vegas - so that you can see the original, not the Chinese copy.

Meanwhile, about S-300's and S-400, you can read the opinion of a Chinese military expert, in Chinese, at your favorite website: ÎÒ¿Õ¾ü¹¤³ÌʦÉî¶È½ÒÃØS-300ÐÔÄÜ£º·´ÒþÉíÓÐǷȱ|S-300|·À¿Õµ¼µ¯|ÐÔÄÜ_ÐÂÀ˾üÊÂ

China will buy S-400, because it won't be able to develop something better on its own, and no one else would offer it anything comparable. So you don't have a lot of choice. Say thank you to uncle Ivan and uncle Vladimir.

Also, while you are at it, could you explain to me why did China buy 15 (!!!) S-300 PMU-2, which were delivered in March 2010, and are mostly now in Fujian province, near Taiwan? The quantity and dates were revealed by the General Director of the maker of S-300: Поставка комплексов С-300 в Китай - YouTube

Why didn't China deploy 15 HQ-9's there? Is it because they are extremely inferior to S-300PMU-2 and S-300VM? Because that's the only conclusion one can reach.

Yeap, since i'am not a decision maker, you shouldn't cross out the possibility of "Chinese forced SSM to take that decision by telekinesis". This would be more logical.

Sinan, so you are saying that corruption doesn't exist in military sales, and more specifically, doesn't exist in Turkish military? That's strange, because Turkish government would disagree with you, as would police, media and NGO's, who've uncovered many corrupt deals over the decades, going all the way to Chief's of Generals Staff. So please, let's be serious here, and not display pseudo-patriotism. Trying to deny that there is corruption in Turkey, and specifically, in Turkish military, is laughable. If it makes it easier for you to admit it, there is corruption in virtually all world's militaries -in U.S., in Russia, in Italy, in France.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

To bet with you? It seems some of the forum members have a very inflated sense of self-worth. No offense, but you are a nobody in the world of Chinese military production, acquisition, development, production, and exports. Hence, it would be stupid for anyone to "bet" with you about something that you have zero control over. If you want to bet, go to a casino - Macao offers world's biggest casino's, by the way, so spend your money there. Or I invite you to Las Vegas - so that you can see the original, not the Chinese copy.

Meanwhile, about S-300's and S-400, you can read the opinion of a Chinese military expert, in Chinese, at your favorite website: ÎÒ¿Õ¾ü¹¤³ÌʦÉî¶È½ÒÃØS-300ÐÔÄÜ£º·´ÒþÉíÓÐǷȱ|S-300|·À¿Õµ¼µ¯|ÐÔÄÜ_ÐÂÀ˾üÊÂ

China will buy S-400, because it won't be able to develop something better on its own, and no one else would offer it anything comparable. So you don't have a lot of choice. Say thank you to uncle Ivan and uncle Vladimir.

Also, while you are at it, could you explain to me why did China buy 15 (!!!) S-300 PMU-2, which were delivered in March 2010, and are mostly now in Fujian province, near Taiwan? The quantity and dates were revealed by the General Director of the maker of S-300: Поставка комплексов С-300 в Китай - YouTube

Why didn't China deploy 15 HQ-9's there? Is it because they are extremely inferior to S-300PMU-2 and S-300VM? Because that's the only conclusion one can reach.

This is the opinion of the Russians translated in Chinese, it still means nothing here.

Remember, only US and China have performed the real ground midcourse interception, the most difficult part of the ABM system, the rest have all of this concept on paper, thus it doesn't count.

 

[gr8vision]

This is the opinion of the Russians translated in Chinese, it still means nothing here.

Remember, only US and China have performed the real ground midcourse interception, the most difficult part of the ABM system, the rest have all of this concept on paper, thus it doesn't count.

Not sure what you mean by "read group midcourse interception", or "opinion of the Russians translated in Chinese", but the facts were layed out clearly.

And please do explain why did China purchase 15 S-300PMU-2 in March 2010? No comments? I see you've closed your eyes on that - why? Very selective are you

Also, could you please place here the best possible brochure or spec sheet of FD-2000 (export version of HQ-9), or the HQ-9 itself? Let's compare using Chinese sources, since you don't like Western sources, so that you don't complain.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Not sure what you mean by "read group midcourse interception", or "opinion of the Russians translated in Chinese", but the facts were layed out clearly.

And please do explain why did China purchase 15 S-300PMU-2 in March 2010? No comments? I see you've closed your eyes on that - why? Very selective are you

Also, could you please place here the best possible brochure or spec sheet of FD-2000 (export version of HQ-9), or the HQ-9 itself? Let's compare using Chinese sources, since you don't like Western sources, so that you don't complain.

To offset the trade unbalance most likely, since Putin wants China to buy more of the manufactured stuffs made in Russia, not just the oïl and gas.

China mostly bought S-300 just like it still bought some AL-31F engines to maintain for its earlier aircrafts such as J-11A and J-10A.

HQ-9B is already there, it can reach 300km according to our official media and will be used by our new Type 052D and Type 055 Aegis DDGs.

The older Type 051C destroyers use the S-300 through, since the S-300PMU is better than our earlier S-300 bought from Russia, maybe we bought some S-300PMU for our Type 051C destroyers.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yeap, since i'am not a decision maker, you shouldn't cross out the possibility of "Chinese forced SSM to take that decision by telekinesis". This would be more logical.

Turkey does not have the special love for China's weapons, so HQ-9 must come to overdeliver something.

Yeah, the brand name of our weapons are really underpromised, but we can manage to overdeliver the performance.

 

[-SINAN-]

Turkey does not have the special love for China's weapons, so HQ-9 must come to overdeliver something.

Yeah, the brand name of our weapons are really underpromised, but we can manage to overdeliver the performance.

Mate, i don't know for the decision makers. But for us (public), we can't even compare Chinese systems with their counterparts as very little information is available. I mean even if you have a superior system you can't prove to anyone here for the reason of "lack of data". I think your country have to develop a more efficient marketing if you guys really have the systems on-par with its counterparts.

 

[kristisipe]

Just curious. Did China sign a new contract in 2010 for these 15 batteries or they were delivered for the contract signed years ago?