How 3 Rafale ,1SU30,1MIG 29 ,1Miraj 2000 shot down by PAF ?

[waraich66]

### **Enhanced PAF Kill Chain: Satellites + J-10C + HQ-9 + AEW&C vs. Indian Rafale**

Adding **Chinese reconnaissance satellites** (like Yaogan or Gaofen series) significantly boosts the **detection, tracking, and targeting** capabilities of the PLA. Here’s how they amplify the threat to the Indian Rafale:

---

## **1. Satellite Surveillance Strengths**
China operates **optical, SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar), and electronic intelligence (ELINT) satellites**, which can:

### **A. Early Detection & Tracking**
- **Overhead Coverage**: Satellites can detect Rafales taking off from Indian airbases (e.g., Hashimara, Ambala).
- **Persistent Tracking**: Unlike AEW&C, satellites are harder to jam and provide **global coverage**.
- **Data Fusion**: Real-time intel fed to **KJ-500 AEW&C, HQ-9 batteries, and J-10Cs** via **Tianlian data relay satellites**.

### **B. Targeting Support**
- **SAR Satellites** (e.g., Yaogan-30) can track Rafales even through **clouds/jamming**.
- **Hypersonic Missile Guidance**: Future **DF-21D/DF-26 anti-ship missiles** (adapted for air targeting) could theoretically use satellite data.

### **C. Electronic Warfare (EW) & Cyber**
- **ELINT satellites** can map Indian radar emissions (like Rafale’s AESA or SAM radars).
- **Possible cyber attacks** to disrupt Indian AEW&C (Netra/Phalcon) or ground radars.

---

## **2. Revised Kill Chain with Satellites**
### **Step 1: Satellite Detection**
- **Gaofen-4 (optical) or Yaogan-30 (SAR)** spots Rafale movements.
- **Tianlian satellites relay data** to KJ-500 and PLA command centers.

### **Step 2: AEW&C + Ground Radar Refinement**
- **KJ-500 narrows Rafale’s location** using satellite cueing.
- **HQ-9 batteries prepare to engage** if Rafale enters SAM range.

### **Step 3: J-10C Launch with PL-15**
- **J-10Cs are vectored optimally** (avoiding Rafale’s Meteor no-escape zone).
- **PL-15 missiles receive mid-course updates** from KJ-500/satellites.

### **Step 4: HQ-9 Ambush**
- If Rafale evades PL-15, **HQ-9 engages** from another angle (satellites help predict flight path).

### **Step 5: Post-Strike Assessment**
- **Satellites verify Rafale kill** (via wreckage/IR signature).

---

## **3. Rafale’s Counters Against Satellite-Enhanced Threat**
### **A. Masking Movements**
- **Terrain-hugging flight** (to avoid SAR satellites).
- **Deploying decoys** (like small drones mimicking Rafale radar signatures).

### **B. Electronic Warfare (SPECTRA)**
- **Jamming satellite downlinks** to disrupt PLA’s kill chain.
- **Deceptive radar emissions** to confuse ELINT satellites.

### **C. Proactive SEAD/DEAD**
- **India could target Chinese satellites** (though this risks escalation).
- **Anti-radiation missiles (like Rudram)** against HQ-9 radars.

---

## **4. Revised Outcome with Satellite Support**
| **Scenario** | **Without Satellites** | **With Chinese Satellites** |
|-------------|----------------------|---------------------------|
| **Detection Range** | ~400-500 km (AEW&C only) | **Global coverage** (satellites see takeoff) |
| **Tracking Resilience** | Vulnerable to SPECTRA jamming | **SAR satellites harder to jam** |
| **J-10C Missile Accuracy** | Depends on KJ-500 updates | **PL-15 gets satellite mid-course guidance** |
| **Rafale’s Survival Chance** | ~50-60% | **Drops to ~30-40%** |

### **Key Takeaways**
**China’s kill chain becomes far deadlier** with satellites—**earlier detection, better tracking, and more precise missile guidance**.
**Rafale’s SPECTRA is still a major factor**, but satellites reduce its effectiveness.
**India needs its own space-based ISR** (like EMISAT or upcoming GISAT) to counter.

---

## **5. Real-World Implications**
- **China’s Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD) gets stronger**—satellites make it harder for India to operate near Tibet/Ladakh.
- **India must invest in:**
- **Space-based tracking** (GISAT-2, EMISAT).
- **Anti-satellite weapons** (like Mission Shakti, but risky).
- **More Rafales + NG-EW (Next-Gen Electronic Warfare)**.

### **Final Verdict**
- **Without satellites**: Rafale has a fighting chance (~50-60%).
- **With satellites**: Chinese kill probability **jumps to ~60-70%** due to superior situational awareness.

comments please ?

 

[lulldapull]

### **Enhanced PAF Kill Chain: Satellites + J-10C + HQ-9 + AEW&C vs. Indian Rafale**

Adding **Chinese reconnaissance satellites** (like Yaogan or Gaofen series) significantly boosts the **detection, tracking, and targeting** capabilities of the PLA. Here’s how they amplify the threat to the Indian Rafale:

---

## **1. Satellite Surveillance Strengths**
China operates **optical, SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar), and electronic intelligence (ELINT) satellites**, which can:

### **A. Early Detection & Tracking**
- **Overhead Coverage**: Satellites can detect Rafales taking off from Indian airbases (e.g., Hashimara, Ambala).
- **Persistent Tracking**: Unlike AEW&C, satellites are harder to jam and provide **global coverage**.
- **Data Fusion**: Real-time intel fed to **KJ-500 AEW&C, HQ-9 batteries, and J-10Cs** via **Tianlian data relay satellites**.

### **B. Targeting Support**
- **SAR Satellites** (e.g., Yaogan-30) can track Rafales even through **clouds/jamming**.
- **Hypersonic Missile Guidance**: Future **DF-21D/DF-26 anti-ship missiles** (adapted for air targeting) could theoretically use satellite data.

### **C. Electronic Warfare (EW) & Cyber**
- **ELINT satellites** can map Indian radar emissions (like Rafale’s AESA or SAM radars).
- **Possible cyber attacks** to disrupt Indian AEW&C (Netra/Phalcon) or ground radars.

---

## **2. Revised Kill Chain with Satellites**
### **Step 1: Satellite Detection**
- **Gaofen-4 (optical) or Yaogan-30 (SAR)** spots Rafale movements.
- **Tianlian satellites relay data** to KJ-500 and PLA command centers.

### **Step 2: AEW&C + Ground Radar Refinement**
- **KJ-500 narrows Rafale’s location** using satellite cueing.
- **HQ-9 batteries prepare to engage** if Rafale enters SAM range.

### **Step 3: J-10C Launch with PL-15**
- **J-10Cs are vectored optimally** (avoiding Rafale’s Meteor no-escape zone).
- **PL-15 missiles receive mid-course updates** from KJ-500/satellites.

### **Step 4: HQ-9 Ambush**
- If Rafale evades PL-15, **HQ-9 engages** from another angle (satellites help predict flight path).

### **Step 5: Post-Strike Assessment**
- **Satellites verify Rafale kill** (via wreckage/IR signature).

---

## **3. Rafale’s Counters Against Satellite-Enhanced Threat**
### **A. Masking Movements**
- **Terrain-hugging flight** (to avoid SAR satellites).
- **Deploying decoys** (like small drones mimicking Rafale radar signatures).

### **B. Electronic Warfare (SPECTRA)**
- **Jamming satellite downlinks** to disrupt PLA’s kill chain.
- **Deceptive radar emissions** to confuse ELINT satellites.

### **C. Proactive SEAD/DEAD**
- **India could target Chinese satellites** (though this risks escalation).
- **Anti-radiation missiles (like Rudram)** against HQ-9 radars.

---

## **4. Revised Outcome with Satellite Support**
| **Scenario** | **Without Satellites** | **With Chinese Satellites** |
|-------------|----------------------|---------------------------|
| **Detection Range** | ~400-500 km (AEW&C only) | **Global coverage** (satellites see takeoff) |
| **Tracking Resilience** | Vulnerable to SPECTRA jamming | **SAR satellites harder to jam** |
| **J-10C Missile Accuracy** | Depends on KJ-500 updates | **PL-15 gets satellite mid-course guidance** |
| **Rafale’s Survival Chance** | ~50-60% | **Drops to ~30-40%** |

### **Key Takeaways**
**China’s kill chain becomes far deadlier** with satellites—**earlier detection, better tracking, and more precise missile guidance**.
**Rafale’s SPECTRA is still a major factor**, but satellites reduce its effectiveness.
**India needs its own space-based ISR** (like EMISAT or upcoming GISAT) to counter.

---

## **5. Real-World Implications**
- **China’s Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD) gets stronger**—satellites make it harder for India to operate near Tibet/Ladakh.
- **India must invest in:**
- **Space-based tracking** (GISAT-2, EMISAT).
- **Anti-satellite weapons** (like Mission Shakti, but risky).
- **More Rafales + NG-EW (Next-Gen Electronic Warfare)**.

### **Final Verdict**
- **Without satellites**: Rafale has a fighting chance (~50-60%).
- **With satellites**: Chinese kill probability **jumps to ~60-70%** due to superior situational awareness.

comments please ?

Oh bhai this is all china fan boy musings from their forums no?

First thing first that water rat looking IAF chief spilled da beans 2 days ago no?

They used humreekan Banshee drones trailing foil strips to mimic radar signatures of Al-Rafales and Sukhoi 30 no?

They spoofed us and we launched dozens of PL-15's at those decoy Banshee drones.

Sikh choorray nay interview main ye bola hae.

I can post it........but have you seen his face?.......lol

 

[Sage]

### **Enhanced PAF Kill Chain: Satellites + J-10C + HQ-9 + AEW&C vs. Indian Rafale**

Adding **Chinese reconnaissance satellites** (like Yaogan or Gaofen series) significantly boosts the **detection, tracking, and targeting** capabilities of the PLA. Here’s how they amplify the threat to the Indian Rafale:

---

## **1. Satellite Surveillance Strengths**
China operates **optical, SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar), and electronic intelligence (ELINT) satellites**, which can:

### **A. Early Detection & Tracking**
- **Overhead Coverage**: Satellites can detect Rafales taking off from Indian airbases (e.g., Hashimara, Ambala).
- **Persistent Tracking**: Unlike AEW&C, satellites are harder to jam and provide **global coverage**.
- **Data Fusion**: Real-time intel fed to **KJ-500 AEW&C, HQ-9 batteries, and J-10Cs** via **Tianlian data relay satellites**.

### **B. Targeting Support**
- **SAR Satellites** (e.g., Yaogan-30) can track Rafales even through **clouds/jamming**.
- **Hypersonic Missile Guidance**: Future **DF-21D/DF-26 anti-ship missiles** (adapted for air targeting) could theoretically use satellite data.

### **C. Electronic Warfare (EW) & Cyber**
- **ELINT satellites** can map Indian radar emissions (like Rafale’s AESA or SAM radars).
- **Possible cyber attacks** to disrupt Indian AEW&C (Netra/Phalcon) or ground radars.

---

## **2. Revised Kill Chain with Satellites**
### **Step 1: Satellite Detection**
- **Gaofen-4 (optical) or Yaogan-30 (SAR)** spots Rafale movements.
- **Tianlian satellites relay data** to KJ-500 and PLA command centers.

### **Step 2: AEW&C + Ground Radar Refinement**
- **KJ-500 narrows Rafale’s location** using satellite cueing.
- **HQ-9 batteries prepare to engage** if Rafale enters SAM range.

### **Step 3: J-10C Launch with PL-15**
- **J-10Cs are vectored optimally** (avoiding Rafale’s Meteor no-escape zone).
- **PL-15 missiles receive mid-course updates** from KJ-500/satellites.

### **Step 4: HQ-9 Ambush**
- If Rafale evades PL-15, **HQ-9 engages** from another angle (satellites help predict flight path).

### **Step 5: Post-Strike Assessment**
- **Satellites verify Rafale kill** (via wreckage/IR signature).

---

## **3. Rafale’s Counters Against Satellite-Enhanced Threat**
### **A. Masking Movements**
- **Terrain-hugging flight** (to avoid SAR satellites).
- **Deploying decoys** (like small drones mimicking Rafale radar signatures).

### **B. Electronic Warfare (SPECTRA)**
- **Jamming satellite downlinks** to disrupt PLA’s kill chain.
- **Deceptive radar emissions** to confuse ELINT satellites.

### **C. Proactive SEAD/DEAD**
- **India could target Chinese satellites** (though this risks escalation).
- **Anti-radiation missiles (like Rudram)** against HQ-9 radars.

---

## **4. Revised Outcome with Satellite Support**
| **Scenario** | **Without Satellites** | **With Chinese Satellites** |
|-------------|----------------------|---------------------------|
| **Detection Range** | ~400-500 km (AEW&C only) | **Global coverage** (satellites see takeoff) |
| **Tracking Resilience** | Vulnerable to SPECTRA jamming | **SAR satellites harder to jam** |
| **J-10C Missile Accuracy** | Depends on KJ-500 updates | **PL-15 gets satellite mid-course guidance** |
| **Rafale’s Survival Chance** | ~50-60% | **Drops to ~30-40%** |

### **Key Takeaways**
**China’s kill chain becomes far deadlier** with satellites—**earlier detection, better tracking, and more precise missile guidance**.
**Rafale’s SPECTRA is still a major factor**, but satellites reduce its effectiveness.
**India needs its own space-based ISR** (like EMISAT or upcoming GISAT) to counter.

---

## **5. Real-World Implications**
- **China’s Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD) gets stronger**—satellites make it harder for India to operate near Tibet/Ladakh.
- **India must invest in:**
- **Space-based tracking** (GISAT-2, EMISAT).
- **Anti-satellite weapons** (like Mission Shakti, but risky).
- **More Rafales + NG-EW (Next-Gen Electronic Warfare)**.

### **Final Verdict**
- **Without satellites**: Rafale has a fighting chance (~50-60%).
- **With satellites**: Chinese kill probability **jumps to ~60-70%** due to superior situational awareness.

comments please ?

Amazing work, yet MODs have not taken any notice of it.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Still no proof of PAF downing any jets apart from Social media and PAK ISPR. whereas destruction and blasts deep inside Pakistan in their airbases, ADS and mosques are all out in the open. Even NYT has confirmed which was initially apprehensive about stating it, in fact they used independent satellite images instead of relying on Pakistani or Indian satellites for confirmation. In fact the funniest part is no such attack on Udhampur was recorded as per their satellite images even though they presented the proof of it with a low resolution image in a briefing by PAK air chief..... Pakistani audience i to backward to even verify things, so not surprised that their govt are taking them for a ride.

 

[lulldapull]

Still no proof of PAF downing any jets apart from Social media and PAK ISPR. whereas destruction and blasts deep inside Pakistan in their airbases, ADS and mosques are all out in the open. Even NYT has confirmed which was initially apprehensive about stating it, in fact they used independent satellite images instead of relying on Pakistani or Indian satellites for confirmation. In fact the funniest part is no such attack on Udhampur was recorded as per their satellite images even though they presented the proof of it with a low resolution image in a briefing by PAK air chief..... Pakistani audience i to backward to even verify things, so not surprised that their govt are taking them for a ride.

No proof of India downing PAF jets in air combat either.

Thank you.....

 

[Pksquad]

Still no proof of PAF downing any jets apart from Social media and PAK ISPR. whereas destruction and blasts deep inside Pakistan in their airbases, ADS and mosques are all out in the open. Even NYT has confirmed which was initially apprehensive about stating it, in fact they used independent satellite images instead of relying on Pakistani or Indian satellites for confirmation. In fact the funniest part is no such attack on Udhampur was recorded as per their satellite images even though they presented the proof of it with a low resolution image in a briefing by PAK air chief..... Pakistani audience i to backward to even verify things, so not surprised that their govt are taking them for a ride.

Our AVM Aurangzeb Ahmed provided full documentation with verified data, locations and the time your planes were shot down including even the radio recordings. This was later confirmed by the French source reported by CNN. What more do you need? The planes fell on your side—why not direct your questions to those who removed the wreckage without providing evidence, instead of questioning us? Ask your government and relevant agencies. We can’t help you if you’re unwilling to help yourselves.

 

[ghazi52]

Official kill mark of an IAF Dassault Rafale on one of the Pakistan Air Force’s J-10Cs:

 

[FourMikeEcho]

Still no proof of PAF downing any jets apart from Social media and PAK ISPR. whereas destruction and blasts deep inside Pakistan in their airbases, ADS and mosques are all out in the open. Even NYT has confirmed which was initially apprehensive about stating it, in fact they used independent satellite images instead of relying on Pakistani or Indian satellites for confirmation. In fact the funniest part is no such attack on Udhampur was recorded as per their satellite images even though they presented the proof of it with a low resolution image in a briefing by PAK air chief..... Pakistani audience i to backward to even verify things, so not surprised that their govt are taking them for a ride.

You are right, BVR is the best thing thats happened to IAF that we will no longer be able to provide:
1. Tea receipts for tea served to IAF pilots put out by the incompetent Air Force
2. Or full aircraft surrendered in tact (this one is at the Karachi museum)

We are saddened that the days of providing proof is over. But we know, much like these two heroes (the Gnat pilot and the drinker of tea), PAF will be the biggest source of your next generation leadership and promotions.

Regardless of BVR, IAF can continue the rich tradition of promoting pilots blown out of the sky.

You can cry about satellites all you want, but if this is just a BJP victory, why ban any objective journalist or 8,000 external social media accounts. India is acting more like N. Korea than a country who has supposedly won this.

Your 1.2BN can believe what they want to believe, and the 250M in Pakistan can belive what they want to believe. But what is indisputable is the India-Pakistan Kashmir issue is back on world stage.

 

[Zob]

Still no proof of PAF downing any jets apart from Social media and PAK ISPR. whereas destruction and blasts deep inside Pakistan in their airbases, ADS and mosques are all out in the open. Even NYT has confirmed which was initially apprehensive about stating it, in fact they used independent satellite images instead of relying on Pakistani or Indian satellites for confirmation. In fact the funniest part is no such attack on Udhampur was recorded as per their satellite images even though they presented the proof of it with a low resolution image in a briefing by PAK air chief..... Pakistani audience i to backward to even verify things, so not surprised that their govt are taking them for a ride.

Watch and dont run

bhai we are liars according to you. But these are your people and with their lies they still neither accepting or denying losses.

Atleast now ask them to accept the operation is on a pause right? at least now he can say some truth or your military also compromised?

ALL india did was just spoil some of our cement and paint. Good we will build them better.

Now coming back who did PEHLGAM? anyone caught

Ask Jai Shankar also why did he inform us apparently "so the terrorists" can move away?

Question BJP


as for indian media. Please tell them to vacate Lahore sea.