Suggested duties for Indian members of this forum

[letsrock]

I don't support Indian State's actions regarding Kashmir. Having become the citizen of another country, I have become more vocal in my opposition to Indian State atrocities than before.

I have made countless posts on this forum regarding the disappearances of Kashmiri kids, how Pulwama was a false flag and that kid was trapped, ...there should not be an iota of doubt among those I interacted with that my clear sympathies lie with the Kashmiris.

However, not everything about the Indian state is bad. America has committed atrocities in Vietnam, Nicaragua, and supports Israel is Palestine. Does that mean America the nation is bad?

Every State has good actors and bad actors. India is no different from America: there are people of conscience and empathy in that country who support the Kashmiris.

Nah - america is a proper nation. It has some issues with minorities but it works very well for 70-80 percent of population. Even those who vehemently against it are mainly due to its foreign policy. India isnt - its a colossal tragedy and a pain to millions of people. Its not a nation at all but just a brutal bureacratic state inherited from brits. it works only for 10-15% of population.

It is fundamentally bad if anything good comes its accident or some sort of sudden attitude change among ruling classes which tends to be very temporaru.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Nah - america is a proper nation. It has some issues with minorities but it works very well for 70-80 percent of population. Even those who vehemently against it are mainly due to its foreign policy. India isnt - its a colossal tragedy and a pain to millions of people. Its not a nation at all but just a brutal bureacratic state inherited from brits. it works only for 10-15% of population.

It is fundamentally bad if anything good comes its accident or some sort of sudden attitude change among ruling classes which tends to be very temporaru.

That's definitely the opinion of some Pakistanis. Sometimes I even feel that way but there is a completely opposite view which many hold true.

If you think carefully, many large nations are a colossal tragedy as the State has participated in land grabs, and Machiavellian maneuvers. America did it with the Native American tribes. Russia expanded its territory by conquering the lands of Siberian tribes. China expanded by conquering Tibet and Xinjiang.

The American State had killed many innocent people indiscriminately in Vietnam using Napalm.

I'm not in favour of big government. I have always wanted more decentralization of power in India. All Indian states should have greater autonomy.

 

[Morpheus]

@21st Century Vampire @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Check this out

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Nah - america is a proper nation. It has some issues with minorities but it works very well for 70-80 percent of population. Even those who vehemently against it are mainly due to its foreign policy. India isnt - its a colossal tragedy and a pain to millions of people. Its not a nation at all but just a brutal bureacratic state inherited from brits. it works only for 10-15% of population.

It is fundamentally bad if anything good comes its accident or some sort of sudden attitude change among ruling classes which tends to be very temporaru.

Anyway I hope you understood my point of view clearly. I have to sign off and will see you later.

 

[Nilgiri]

I think we should have a "Khap" empowered to issue "fatwas" or whatever they may like to call it and all subscriber must abide or get boycotted.

For e.g if Khap decided that one should stop engaging XYZ troll, all subscriber should immediately put that user on ignore. We should get a Panchayat thread as well, sticky one. How about conducting some elections to chose few panchs as well?

@Nilgiri What do you reckon, how many hours it will take to get all Khap panchs to get banned here?

@Joe Shearer

Just let it play out yaar. Let us see.

Every long drawn out Greek tragedy has some fits and bursts of attempted reversals in the middle....so the conclusion may be seemingly staved off as long as possible....lot of things inevitably have to be tried out and worked through the system in some effort....honourable, futile these descriptors come only later in hindsight.

At any point, one can simply choose to be part of audience rather than the actors too. I do this to tune of 90% now relative to before.

Besides you will see me bristle first thing if anything become untoward or overbearing in this endeavour too...I can be canary in coalmine for you and others if you want.

I think its started as good-faith one and I trust deeply in Joe.

Besides I believe its been made quite clear this is not some massive enforcement-driven (or compliance mandated shunning) thing...rather a code of general conduct on honour basis....mostly to help out newer Indian members find a good early footing....or those that want a larger idea on overall best principles (for self-improvement and best exchange) here from those that have trodded the path.

Little side story:

When Lee Kuan Yew was studying in the UK, he had much initial surprise in the honour-basis system when he saw newspapers being sold without vendors in areas (compared to what he was used to in the asian system where it would be taken advantage of first thing).

People simply were expected on their honour to put in a penny or two and take the paper. It likely greatly influenced him in seeking good working law and order back home intrinsically in the population.

 

[Joe Shearer]

1. @sms
2. @The BrOkEn HeArT
3. @jamahir
4. @meghdut
5. @KhanBaba2
6. @Krptonite
7. @The_Showstopper
8. @jbgt90
9. @Mad Scientist 2.0
10. @xeuss
11. @Dustom999
12. @Syama Ayas
13. @Joe Shearer
14. @Shantanu_Left

This should be a general rule for everyone

Whatever we are discussing as a voluntary code for ourselves as Indian members, it is important to keep in mind that everything is within the rules of the Forum. Wherever there is a difference between our code and the Forum rules, the Forum rules take precedence.

It is highly recommended that we keep abreast of the Forum rules. The link is given under this.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pdf-rules-and-regulations-revised-input-needed.655844/

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

@TheGreatMaratha

Do you feel comfortable with the code? Do you want to continue as a subscriber?

I'll take these as suggestions instead (which many of them I anyway follow).

I think we should have a "Khap" empowered to issue "fatwas" or whatever they may like to call it and all subscriber must abide or get boycotted.

For e.g if Khap decided that one should stop engaging XYZ troll, all subscriber should immediately put that user on ignore. We should get a Panchayat thread as well, sticky one. How about conducting some elections to chose few panchs as well?

@Nilgiri What do you reckon, how many hours it will take to get all Khap panchs to get banned here?

@Joe Shearer

I think you have some member in mind hehe.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yeah, twice or thrice I have replied to that arch troll PAKISTANFOREVER but now I simply ignore him.

Racist he is, ignore you should.

He's a clickbait. His comments are so prickly that you're forced to react. Nowadays he plays by the rules but still manages to get a rise out of many Indian posters. But be stronger, and resist yourself.

Guys, it is not nice to backbite our brother @PAKISTANFOREVER

Over the years (on this forum only not in real life), I have found that we are different in every regard. There is no common ground and if based on what goes on at PDF is the posters speaking the truth behind anonymity, then there is no hope for peace between our people. We simply hate each other and have no way to understand each other’s perspectives nor be able to understand an issue by putting ourselves in “their” shoes.

You judged correctly. Most Pakistanis want nothing to do with Indians.

That is the whole basis of Two Nation Theory, i.e. Reality.

If these are norms only for indian posters then thats fine . but i want mods to watch this trend carefully @waz @masterchief_mirza @krash . Allowing indians to police which words are acceptable means soon indians will be demanding fake reciprocity- if you bring up genuine issue of kashmir i will bring up balochistan. If you criticize hindu caste system i will criticize Islam and its prophets.

I have no problem with indians as colleagues, neighbors, traders. In fact i like many of them esp those who are from south and muslims. But an indian as an "indian" can only be bad. Fundamentally india is an empire and indian society is worse than south africa under apartheid. Indians know this and their chanakyan solution is to pretend india is just like another nation and hinduism is just another religion. Once you accept that premise the only trend is dilution of all just causes - kashmir, demand for dignified treatment of muslims, dalits, south indians etc. The moment you bring up kashmir then hey india is just like another nation we have "some" problems with kashmir like you have with baloch etc so lets just be freinds kind of arguments will happen.

India is simply not just another nation like say pakistan is. Pakistan was based on premise of separate homeland for muslims. They only asked for muslim majority lands. India on the other hand inherited an empire from brits.

Indian nationalism must continue to be severely policed - nothing good comes from it. And dont worry about them not coming etc. Not gonna happen. India is ranked lowest in happiness index. They will climb whatever walls you put up just to be outta there.

I would actualy ask people to more weary of @Joe Shearer types. As they pretend that there is a "nice" side to ugly indian nationalism. All those other more rude posters are just "sanghis" etc. If you leave them those sangihs apart it is just a lovely another nation busy solving some problems here and there in kashmir or caste etc.
But oppression in kashmir or caste are NOT problems of india. They are its features. one can ignore it only at ones own peril.

You caught on to their motives quite clearly. This is a ruse to get Indian members from being banned.

Mods have taken serious action against Indians and asked Pakistanis to report them. Many Pakistanis have altered their behavior to not get caught by the same bans. The forum is better as a result, but we still have odd Indian trolls that need to go.

If you go through the posts of the three members behind this, you will notice sly remarks and insults towards Pakistanis by each one.

The two OPs even are breaking their own rules constantly. This will never last. It is amusing to watch though.

@21st Century Vampire @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Check this out

I read through the thread and my conclusion is this.

Will the OP alter his behavior and behave with decency? No more childish games? Insulting Quaid or Kashmiris?

Other OP, will he stop mudslinging me by calling me Taliban (for my Pukhtoon cultural ties and affinity for Afghanistan) and trying to warn Indian Muslims not to talk with me? Lol.

And then the third, who will keep abusing and starting childish fights to try to turn Bangladeshis and Pakistanis against each other, or work to turn 1-2 Turkish members against Pakistanis through his Discord.

Before asking anyone to change, you three need to fix your own issues, however I doubt it will happen because of large egos.

Muslim Indian members of this forum like @xeuss @jamahir and others already do not have problems on this forum because they respect Pakistanis and the Islamic faith, which we both follow. So they already have an Islamic code of conduct. They fit in very well with us.

I see this as some kind of ploy to bring Indian Muslims in line with Indian Hindu liberal thought and dictates. I read here some saying that Indians should not insult their state or call others Sanghis, but it is very hard after seeing what happened in New Delhi.

 

[SQ8]

Regarding this effort


“Woh log bahut khush kismat the,

Jo ishq ko kaam samajhte the,

Yaa kaam se aashiqui karte the,

Hum jiite ji masruuf rahe,

Kuchh ishq kiya, kuchh kaam kiya.

Kaam ishq ke aaDe aata raha,

Aur ishq se kaam ulajhta raha,

Phir aakhir tang aakar hum ne,

Donon ko adhuuraa chhoRh diya.

– Faiz Ahmad Faiz

 

[KhanBaba2]

Allowing indians to police which words are acceptable means soon indians will be demanding fake reciprocity- if you bring up genuine issue of kashmir i will bring up balochistan. If you criticize hindu caste system i will criticize Islam and its prophets.

You seem to have the idea of this thread wrong. This is not about changing how we think. This is about the manner in which we post our thoughts here. And to avoid posting on certain topics.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'll take these as suggestions instead (which many of them I anyway follow).

That's fine.

I think you have some member in mind hehe.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Guys, it is not nice to backbite our brother @PAKISTANFOREVER



You judged correctly. Most Pakistanis want nothing to do with Indians.

That is the whole basis of Two Nation Theory, i.e. Reality.



You caught on to their motives quite clearly. This is a ruse to get Indian members from being banned.

Mods have taken serious action against Indians and asked Pakistanis to report them. Many Pakistanis have altered their behavior to not get caught by the same bans. The forum is better as a result, but we still have odd Indian trolls that need to go.

If you go through the posts of the three members behind this, you will notice sly remarks and insults towards Pakistanis by each one.

The two OPs even are breaking their own rules constantly. This will never last. It is amusing to watch though.





I read through the thread and my conclusion is this.

Will the OP alter his behavior and behave with decency? No more childish games? Insulting Quaid or Kashmiris?

Other OP, will he stop mudslinging me by calling me Taliban (for my Pukhtoon cultural ties and affinity for Afghanistan) and trying to warn Indian Muslims not to talk with me? Lol.

And then the third, who will keep abusing and starting childish fights to try to turn Bangladeshis and Pakistanis against each other, or work to turn 1-2 Turkish members against Pakistanis through his Discord.

Before asking anyone to change, you three need to fix your own issues, however I doubt it will happen because of large egos.

Muslim Indian members of this forum like @xeuss @jamahir and others already do not have problems on this forum because they respect Pakistanis and the Islamic faith, which we both follow. So they already have an Islamic code of conduct. They fit in very well with us.

I see this as some kind of ploy to bring Indian Muslims in line with Indian Hindu liberal thought and dictates. I read here some saying that Indians should not insult their state or call others Sanghis, but it is very hard after seeing what happened in New Delhi.

So now I am a racist because I do not accept anti-Pakistani, anti-Muslim racism from indian racists?..................

According to indians, I am also a racist because I question the credibility of the india media; I don't believe that indians invented the internet and satellite communication some 10,000 years ago, I don't believe that the iaf killed 350 terrorists in Balakot and shot down an F-16; I don't believe that the indian army killed 43 Chinese troops and captured a further 100 and I certainly don't believe that india is superpower..............

ANY Pakistani who is proud and confident of their heritage and of being a Muslim, is a racist according to indians.............

It's laughable how indians expect so much from a Pakistani forum and accuse others of racism when on indian forums they continuously call for the genocide, rape and torture of all Pakistanis and Muslims on this planet. They also continuously call for the annihilation of Pakistan.....................yet here they want to be respected and treated equally??????.............the hypocrisy of indians has NO bounds.........

What August the 14th 1947 showed was that Pakistani people and indians can NEVER EVER live peacefully together nor can there EVER be any meaningful interactions or communications between these two different peoples. This thread has proved that once again.

It would be best for all parties concerned if indians were to permanently leave PDF and stick to their own forums were they can openly express their beliefs and hatred/racism of Pakistan, Pakistanis, Muslims and Islam till their hearts content.

The purpose of this thread is to try to legitimize indian hatred/racism towards Pakistan, Pakistanis, Islam and Muslims and to allow posts that express this to be freely posted without the posters getting banned of their content deleted. Nothing more.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You seem to have the idea of this thread wrong. This is not about changing how we think. This is about the manner in which we post our thoughts here. And to avoid posting on certain topics.

On the nail.

I'm counting you in, then.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Soon, indians on PDF will be asking for those who criticise modi and support the Kashmiris in ioK to be permanently banned from PDF................

 

[Shantanu_Left]

So now I am a racist because I do not accept anti-Pakistani, anti-Muslim racism from indian racists?..................

I personally did not call you a racist. I just said that you always manage to get a "RISE" out of Indians which happens to be true. You might be smiling at yourself.

According to indians, I am also a racist because I question the credibility of the india media; I don't believe that indians invented the internet and satellite communication some 10,000 years ago, I don't believe that the iaf killed 350 terrorists in Balakot and shot down an F-16; I don't believe that the indian army killed 43 Chinese troops and captured a further 100 and I certainly don't believe that india is superpower..............

Trust me, not all of us trust Indian media. I only trust 2-3 Indian media sources. Generally, I use neutral international sources such as BBC, Guardian (UK) in all my comments. I have yelled at my own Indian members when they claimed 43 Chinese died at Galwan. Other Indian posters including xeuss, Joe etc. also have their doubts with Indian media.

We're precisely here on a Pakistani forum because we don't trust Indian media. There is a large group of dissenters in India: we're not this giant monolith, a big ball of hatred as you imagine.

ANY Pakistani who is proud and confident of their heritage and of being a Muslim, is a racist according to indians.............

Hell no, be proud of who you are. Wear it on your sleeves. By the same token, we (Indians) will have pride in who we are. That's why I took an issue with the user Letsrockforever in previous posts: he says that Indians should not take pride in being Indians, because India is a fascist state. Why? We're dead opposed to fascism in India but that doesn't mean we can't take pride in being Indians.

You take pride in being Pakistani. We take pride in being Indians. But we can still coexist peacefully.

It's laughable how indians expect so much from a Pakistani forum and accuse others of racism when on indian forums they continuously call for the genocide, rape and torture of all Pakistanis and Muslims on this planet. They also continuously call for the annihilation of Pakistan.....................yet here they want to be respected and treated equally??????.............the hypocrisy of indians has NO bounds.........

Most of us dissenters love it here in this Pakistani forum because of a democracy of ideas. To be honest, we hate those Indian forums more than you do.

What August the 14th 1947 showed was that Pakistani people and indians can NEVER EVER live peacefully together nor can there EVER be any meaningful interactions or communications between these two different peoples. This thread has proved that once again.

Fair enough but you're on your own. I get along great with the Pakistanis in Singapore (one works very closely with me as a supplier). We speak in Punjabi and it feels amazing.

Yes there's a lot of bitterness between the two countries. But some people of both countries do coexist peacefully.

It would be best for all parties concerned if indians were to permanently leave PDF and stick to their own forums were they can openly express their beliefs and hatred/racism of Pakistan, Pakistanis, Muslims and Islam till their hearts content.

What makes you think we get any pleasure out of hating Islam or Pakistan? We don't.

The purpose of this thread is to try to legitimize indian hatred/racism towards Pakistan, Pakistanis, Islam and Muslims and to allow posts that express this to be freely posted without the posters getting banned of their content deleted. Nothing more.

Already conveyed to you it's not entirely true. This is the precise aim of this thread: to make the behavior of Indian members more pleasant, to each other, as well as to non-Indians.