Ranjit Singh : The Quintessential Indus Man

[Xtremeownage]

It happened both ways Jinxy. Rapes of women, killings of innocent men and children. Trains filled with bodies criss-crossed each other into India and Pakistan in an atmosphere filled with hate and violence. From what I have read, the violence was often started by the refugees as they came into villages and wanted to avenge the loss of their homes and dear ones.

But I guess we gotta carry on. In India you cant afford to carry hatred inside you for long as quite often you have people of different faiths around you. I have read a number of books on partition including Khushwant Singh's A Train to Pakistan. It does curdle your blood and makes you emotional but one does see the folly of it all after sometime. I have had Punjabi Muslim classmates and colleagues in India and I never felt any kind of negative feeling about them ever.

This is false, Muslims were the victims during the partition. Indian propaganda tries to justify the acts of brutality and violence against us Muslims, but they are fallacious and wrong! Sikhs and Hindus did those terrible and heinous acts, not Muslims. We fought for our independance through love and peace. Trains headed toward India were never touched, but the trains that made it to Pakistan was full of bodies of our innocent brothers and sisters. Do not make up such lies. I am well aware of Indian propaganda and it's deceptive nature!

 

[Prometheus]

This is false, Muslims were the victims during the partition. Indian propaganda tries to justify the acts of brutality and violence against us Muslims, but they are fallacious and wrong! Sikhs and Hindus did those terrible and heinous acts, not Muslims. We fought for our independance through love and peace. Trains headed toward India were never touched, but the trains that made it to Pakistan was full of bodies of our innocent brothers and sisters. Do not make up such lies. I am well aware of Indian propaganda and it's deceptive nature!

plz search Milkha singh (aka Flying sikh)and find what happened to his parents during partition.

 

[RobbieS]

This is false, Muslims were the victims during the partition. Indian propaganda tries to justify the acts of brutality and violence against us Muslims, but they are fallacious and wrong! Sikhs and Hindus did those terrible and heinous acts, not Muslims. We fought for our independance through love and peace. Trains headed toward India were never touched, but the trains that made it to Pakistan was full of bodies of our innocent brothers and sisters. Do not make up such lies. I am well aware of Indian propaganda and it's deceptive nature!

You are kidding yourself if you think that one side was all holy and the other was causing the carnage.

Show me independent sources and references that say that it was started by Hindus and Sikhs and I believe all that you had to say above.

 

[khanz]

I don't want to take sides either... but as a person who is mostly Punjabi and talking from Punjabi Muslim perspective.. Pakistani Punjabis should remain neutral towards Sikhs and Afghan Pushtuns.

If Afghan Pushtuns are anti-Punjabis (anti Pakistani Punjabis to be specific), so are Indian Sikhs.. Actually, I have never seen people who are as much against Islam as Indian Sikhs Go to their chatrooms or forums soemtime and see the hatred they spew against Muslims and specially Pakistani Punjabis.. Names like "Sulla Sulli" <--- I don't know what the heck that means...

During partition, some of our distant family members were in Amritsar... and the women barely escaped the rapist attacks carried out by Sikhs It will take few more generations before the hatred starts to fade away..

it's a derogatory term for muslim

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

lol! No!.. But if I understand the argument correctly.. Afghan/Persians kidnapped Hindu women from Sindh and Punjab and sold them to Arab markets? Now why would Persians sold them to Arabs? Arabs and Persians don't get along..

naiii yaar... i dont know wat they talking about selling women to arabis.. arabis tah aap bachare marr rahe si.... maybe they mean arabi take women from sindh? i dunno wat they saying.. loll.. otherwise ya ure right, why would persians sell to arabis when persians were killing arabis... plus arabis didn't have oil money at that time.. lolll

 

[jinxeD_girl]

But I guess we gotta carry on. In India you cant afford to carry hatred inside you for long as quite often you have people of different faiths around you. I have read a number of books on partition including Khushwant Singh's A Train to Pakistan. It does curdle your blood and makes you emotional but one does see the folly of it all after sometime. I have had Punjabi Muslim classmates and colleagues in India and I never felt any kind of negative feeling about them ever.

I don't like the Indians holier than thou attitude which almost every Indian tries to show on this forum..

I am NOT talking about the "hate" as in taking a gun and go on shooting spree and killing hindus and sikhs. I have lots of Punjabi Sikhs and Kashmiri Hindu friends too, and I don't have any negative feelings about them.. but because of all the historical bad blood between hindus/muslims/sikhs, deep inside you heart you feel little tension. Don't you? (not hate... but there is something)... If you deny that then you are lying...

And as per your claim.. you are not allowed to carry hate in your hearts... then why YOU guyz haven't forgotten what Mughals did to Sikhs? or about Persian/Afghans/Arab invaders? Something which happened zillions of years ago...

As I said.. taking from Punjabi Muslim perspective.. the invaders who invaded India (i.e Pushtuns), majority of them have become Pakistani themselves and then there are 4 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan. What you sow so shall you reap.. the people who used to invade Punjabis again and again are refugees in our lands now.. Therefore, I don't hate them, actually I feel sorry for them. The invasions carried out by them, is not a matter for us, it is a matter for YOU guyz only (i.e. Indians whether hindus, sikhs or muslims).

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Indian sikhs do hate pakistani muslims (you can say muslims as a whole) cause this hatred goes back to the history of Sikhs and the atrocities on them by the muslim rulers..

Thanks for being honest!! lol!

 

[jinxeD_girl]

veerey I was talking about Punjabi muslim with whom we live in so much of peace and harmony

Just like you guyz live in so much peace and harmony with Indian Muslims... so do we with Pashtuns (i.e. Afghans)

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

Indians always make propaganda against anything that has to do with the history of modern day Pakistan.

For us Muhammad Bin Qasim and all the Muslim emperors were heros who brought Islam, culture, art, architecture, clothing, literature, and cuisine to our land but for indians they were criminals.

Today, we named our missiles after the Muslim emperors and our famous port in Karachi after Muhammad Bin Qasim who brought Islam to our land.

May Allah grant paradise to all the Muslims who ever came to modern day Pakistan hundreds/thousand years ago. Without them there would be no Pakistan today.

waahh kinni galt information loll.. Islam came to subcontinent peacefully.. way before those barbarians.. Sufi Islam came to subcontinent hundreds of years before!

If Afghan Pushtuns are anti-Punjabis (anti Pakistani Punjabis to be specific), so are Indian Sikhs.. Actually, I have never seen people who are as much against Islam as Indian Sikhs Go to their chatrooms or forums soemtime and see the hatred they spew against Muslims and specially Pakistani Punjabis.. Names like "Sulla Sulli" <--- I don't know what the heck that means...

koi naa.. that is very very common.. yea sulla sulli is very commonly used but that is just how Punjabis are.. "Bahman Bahmani" ya pher "Baniyaa" used to describe most hindus (cuz they can't tell the caste differences by looking)... "Bhappay" used to describe Pakistani origin Sikhs... and i've heard people say "jattku damaag" as derogatory to jatts.. term "bhaiyaa bhaiyann" used to describe UP/Bihari migrants to Punjab... so don't feel bad, we discriminate against everyone... loll.. and "sulla sulli" is actually not even as derogatory as "bhappa" or "bhaiyaa"...

During partition, some of our distant family members were in Amritsar... and the women barely escaped the rapist attacks carried out by Sikhs It will take few more generations before the hatred starts to fade away..

Kurriya that goes both ways.. ya i know what happened to muslims in Indian punjab was bad..my grandfather actually used to tell me that this river which runs in our jilla.. hes like it was clogged with so many dead bodies.. he was just a little kid than and he is still traumatized by all the bloodshed... and u may want to believe it or not it doesn't matter but sikhs in today's pakistani punjab suffered the same fate..

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Culture of India is not as important as Islam is.

Omar,

If you think culture is not as important then please become Arab and follow their culture, language, food etc.. You have to admit that Islam is global religion and it varies from place to place and takes the color of the place it is in..

Look at Iranians, they are very proud of their pre-Islamic history.. their language Farsi, and their culture... Punjabis and Sindhis are "indic" people... culturally they are similar to Indians... they are not Arabs...

I think you are one of those Pakistanis.. who think history of Pakistan started with the invasion of Sindh by Mohammed Bin Qasim

 

[jinxeD_girl]

ye my friends its true that partition plan of Punjab angered we sikhs,but does that in anyway prove that Sikhs started the massacre??

and do you have any proof that Muslims started the massacre?

 

[jinxeD_girl]

This is false, Muslims were the victims during the partition. Indian propaganda tries to justify the acts of brutality and violence against us Muslims, but they are fallacious and wrong! Sikhs and Hindus did those terrible and heinous acts, not Muslims. We fought for our independance through love and peace. Trains headed toward India were never touched, but the trains that made it to Pakistan was full of bodies of our innocent brothers and sisters. Do not make up such lies. I am well aware of Indian propaganda and it's deceptive nature!

lol! Muslims killed Sikhs/Hindus too... where are you getting your history lessons from ?

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Kurriya that goes both ways.. ya i know what happened to muslims in Indian punjab was bad..my grandfather actually used to tell me that this river which runs in our jilla.. hes like it was clogged with so many dead bodies.. he was just a little kid than and he is still traumatized by all the bloodshed... and u may want to believe it or not it doesn't matter but sikhs in today's pakistani punjab suffered the same fate..

My grandmother grandmother was a doctor at that time and she told me that there was a well in Sialkot that was filled with the dead of bodies of Sikhs.. I am not saying that Punjabi Muslims were in anyway innocent.. or they didn't kill Sikhs and Hindus, all I am saying with millions of Punjabis killed on both sides of border.. there is still lots of tension on both sides... as it didn't happen long time ago.. it happened recently in history (1947)

 

[Mirza Jatt]

I am NOT talking about the "hate" as in taking a gun and go on shooting spree and killing hindus and sikhs. I have lots of Punjabi Sikhs and Kashmiri Hindu friends too, and I don't have any negative feelings about them.. but because of all the historical bad blood between hindus/muslims/sikhs, deep inside you heart you feel little tension. Don't you? (not hate... but there is something)... If you deny that then you are lying..

yes we feel it a little,but the regret not the hatred or tension (there is nothing to be tensed about it) but it is clear now they you surely carry it a lot of hatred in you hearts..If you deny that then you are lying.(sorru I copied your line)

And as per your claim.. you are not allowed to carry hate in your hearts... then why YOU guyz haven't forgotten what Mughals did to Sikhs? or about Persian/Afghans/Arab invaders? Something which happened zillions of years ago...

Madam ji we haven't forgotten that because that our history(and also because our memories are sharp you see )..do you want us to forget our history?? Remembering the past does not mean carrying the hatred in your heart...if you are trying to say that we are still having a sense of enemity between us then you are wrong.

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

And as per your claim.. you are not allowed to carry hate in your hearts... then why YOU guyz haven't forgotten what Mughals did to Sikhs? or about Persian/Afghans/Arab invaders? Something which happened zillions of years ago...

Because without the Mughals and the foriegn invaders.. the Sikh religion would not be the same it is today.. those guys gave us our identity... the sardars and the Sikh appearance was born to look different than Muslims and Hindus.. without those guys.. Sikh religion was only all philosophy.. no swords... secondly, we don't equate all Muslims with those guys.. our Sikh holy books have writings of many Muslim saints.. and some of greatest figures in Sikhism were Muslims.. people like Hazrat Mian Mir.... Baba Farid... Baba Bhikhan.. Bhai Mardana... and many more.. so it is not the Sikhs who are carrying a chip on their shoulder.. yaa there are some who are very intolerant.. but you're from Pakistan you should be the first to understand that those people are on both sides of the border.. some folks in this thread itself are a perfect example..

As I said.. taking from Punjabi Muslim perspective.. the invaders who invaded India (i.e Pushtuns), majority of them have become Pakistani themselves and then there are 4 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan. What you sow so shall you reap.. the people who used to invade Punjabis again and again are refugees in our lands now.. Therefore, I don't hate them, actually I feel sorry for them. The invasions carried out by them, is not a matter for us, it is a matter for YOU guyz only (i.e. Indians whether hindus, sikhs or muslims).

We don't have anything against Pathans.. the Khalsa army already got their revenge when they annexed Peshawar and brought it within Punjabi dominance.. as for other invaders.. they were mongols.. they killed as many Hindus and Sikhs as they did Arabs Persians and Afghans.... and right now those countries aren't exactly so powerful (uzbekistan tajikistan and all those) so there isnt any case there..