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Ranjit Singh : The Quintessential Indus Man

haha yeah!! :D
Actually, Arabs were killing Persians when they invaded Persia... therefore I don't know why would Persians want to sell Indian women to Arabs and why not keep them to themselves...? That is the most funny thing i ever read... :rofl:


There is nothing funny about it.

Yes,its very much true that invaders like Tamir Lane,Nadir Shar and ABdali used to sell captured hindu women from punjab and sindh to slave market of Baghdad and other middle east Arab cities after killing the male folks.

Go read about the Gypsys and Roma ppl who supposed to be from north west india.
 
if not 100% then authentic to an acceptable degree. thanks for the wiki, i could easily google it myself.

let me repeat it again, i am asking this for the sake of clarification and nothing else, because it is the first time i am hearing such a thing and different people got different ideas regarding this issue in this thread.

Its not only Aghans ,but all invaders who entered punjab left a horrific history of plunder,pillage and atrocities aganist punjabis especially hindus.

Here is sample of Timur Lanes persecution of of hindus by his own account:

The Sultan's army was easily defeated on December 17, 1398. Timur entered Delhi and the city was sacked, destroyed, and left in ruins. Before the battle for Delhi, Timur executed more than 100,000 captives.

Timur himself recorded the invasions in his memoirs, collectively known as Tuzk-i-Timuri. In them, he vividly described the massacre at Delhi:


The climax came during the invasion of Timur in 1399 AD. He starts by quoting the Quran in his Tuzk-i-Timûrî: “O Prophet, make war upon the infidels and unbelievers, and treat them severely.” He continues: “My great object in invading Hindustan had been to wage a religious war against the infidel Hindus… [so that] the army of Islam might gain something by plundering the wealth and valuables of the Hindus.”


To start with he stormed the fort of Kator on the border of Kashmir. He ordered his soldiers “to kill all the men, to make prisoners of women and children, and to plunder and lay waste all their property”. Next, he “directed towers to be built on the mountain of the skulls of those obstinate unbelievers”. Soon after, he laid siege to Bhatnir defended by Rajputs. They surrendered after some fight, and were pardoned. But Islam did not bind Timur to keep his word given to the “unbelievers”. His Tuzk-i-Timûrî records: “In a short space of time all the people in the fort were put to the sword, and in the course of one hour the heads of 10,000 infidels were cut off. The sword of Islam was washed in the blood of the infidels, and all the goods and effects, the treasure and the grain which for many a long year had been stored in the fort became the spoil of my soldiers. They set fire to the houses and reduced them to ashes, and they razed the buildings and the fort to the ground.”


At Sarsuti, the next city to be sacked, “all these infidel Hindus were slain, their wives and children were made prisoners and their property and goods became the spoil of the victors”. Timur was now moving through Haryana, the land of the Jats. He directed his soldiers to “plunder and destroy and kill every one whom they met”. And so the soldiers “plundered every village, killed the men, and carried a number of Hindu prisoners, both male and female”. Loni which was captured before he arrived at Delhi was predominantly a Hindu town. But some Muslim inhabitants were also taken prisoners. Timur ordered that “the Musulman prisoners should be separated and saved, but the infidels should all be despatched to hell with the proselytising sword”.


By now Timur had captured 100,000 Hindus. As he prepared for battle against the Tughlaq army after crossing the Yamuna, his Amirs advised him “that on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolators and enemies of Islam at liberty”. Therefore, “no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword”. Tuzk-i-Timûrî continues: “I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghãzîs of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. One hundred thousand infidels, impious idolators, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiruddin Umar, a counsellor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives.”

The Tughlaq army was defeated in the battle that ensued next day. Timur entered Delhi and learnt that a “great number of Hindus with their wives and children, and goods and valuables, had come into the city from all the country round”. He directed his soldiers to seize these Hindus and their property. Tuzk-i-Timûrî concludes: “Many of them (Hindus) drew their swords and resisted… The flames of strife were thus lighted and spread through the whole city from Jahãnpanah and Siri to Old Delhi, burning up all it reached. The Hindus set fire to their houses with their own hands, burned their wives and children in them and rushed into the fight and were killed… On that day, Thursday, and all the night of Friday, nearly 15,000 Turks were engaged in slaying, plundering and destroying. When morning broke on Friday, all my army… went off to the city and thought of nothing but killing, plundering and making prisoners… The following day, Saturday the 17th, all passed in the same way, and the spoil was so great that each man secured from fifty to a hundred prisoners, men, women, and children. There was no man who took less than twenty. The other booty was immense in rubies, diamonds, garnets, pearls, and other gems and jewels; ashrafis, tankas of gold and silver of the celebrated Alãi coinage: vessels of gold and silver; and brocades and silks of great value. Gold and silver ornaments of Hindu women were obtained in such quantities as to exceed all account. Excepting the quarter of the Saiyids, the ulama and the other Musulmãns, the whole city was sacked.”

I'am not allowed to give URL link for time being,but just google hindu persecution by muslim invaders.
 
Thanks Ahmad,
I'm sure you are well aware of a common joks about Sikh's "Sardarji Barah Bajj gaye", by most of hindu youths who had never gave a second thought about what did it really ment. We Sikhs instead of showing anger are so enigmatic that it seemed some type of truth lies behind it. Truth is whenever some young mischievous type of person thinks he's teasing us we return the favour with a smile which makes them think why is this Sikh not getting mad. We Sikh's reply 'he was not teasing me but was asking for my Help'.


IBRIS, those hindus who make fun of Sikhs are idiots.

That slur is an old one and started in the times of united punjab.

But the u way explained things also display complete lack of Knowledge in history.

During 17th Century when Hindustan was ruled by Mughals all the people were humiliated and were treated like animal. Mughals treated the Hindu women as there own property and were forcing all Hindus to accept Islam and even used to kill the people if they were refusing to accept.

In 16th century , hindustan was ruled by moghuls,true ,but moghuls rules like AKber are very tolerant of hindus , He had major allainces with hindus and Hindu Rajput Generals like Mann Singh were leading his conquest .Emperor Jahangir was half hindu.

They werent treated like animals or their women arent possestions of Moghul rulers.


But in 17 century ,things changed drastically with advent of Aurangzeb.


That time our Ninth Guru Sri Guru Teg Bhadarji who came forward, in request of some Kashmir Pandits to fight against all these cruel activities. Guruji told the Mughal emperor if he could succeed in converting him to Islam all the Hindus would accept the same but if he failed, he should stop all those activities . The Mughal emperor happily agreed to that but even after lots of torture to Guruji and his fellow members he failed to convert him to Islam and Guruji along with his other four fellow members who were also tortured for the same sacrificed their lives in Chandni Chowk. Since the Mughals were unable to convert them to Islam they were assassinated. Tthus Guruji sacrificed his life for Protection of Hindu religion. Can anybody lay his life that too for protection of some other religion. This is the reason he is still remembered has Hind Ki Chaddar ..

Very true. But..

Sikhism isnt religion but a panth(path) like Buddism,jainism including may strands hinduism.

Pls dont talk as if sikhs were the saviours of hindus who had landed from some outer space.

All sikh gurus and the followers are hindu Khatris and jatts who got baptised in to sikhism.All are sons and daughter of hindu son of the soli.Unlike muslims,there hardly any foregin blood following in sikhs.
And barely any conversion of muslims to sikhism took place.

dont tell me assocaition of some sufi with sikh Gurus,but they nevr got baptised or left Islam

Isnt it true ,there was long tradition of punjabi hindus to donate their elder son in the khasla army and sikhs panth ??

So in that sense ,who do u thing the kashmiri pundit would have asked for help ,the Rajput down south or Maraths who under Sivaji getting dominant, instead of the sikh guru , whwn especally Guru Teg Bhadarji who had very cordial relations with Kashmiris pundits ??


At the start Sikhs were very less in numbers even though they were fighting against the Mughals emperors. At that time Nadir Shah raided Delhi in the year 1739 and looted Hindustan and was carrying lot of Hindustan treasures and nearly 2200 Hindu women along with him. The news spread like a fire and was heard by Sardar Jassa Singh who was the Commander of the Sikh army at that time . He decided to attack Nadir Shah's Khafila on the same midnight. He did so and rescued all the Hindu women and they were safely sent to their homes.


Very brave of Khalsa forces and they did save those punjabi hindu women from the raiders of Nadir Sha and Abdali.



After that time when there occurred a similar incidence people started to contact the Sikh army for their help and Sikhs used to attack the raider's at Midnight, 12 O'clock. It continued and became a fame that at midnight nearly at 12 O'clock it is very difficult to fight against Sikhs as the Sikhs get some Extra Power to save Religion, Nation and Humanity. Nobody can fight and win against them at midnight, this continues till now. Nowadays these smart people and some Sikh enemies who are afraid of Sikhs, have spread these words that at 12 O'clock the Sikhs goe out of their sense
.

Right description ...

This historic fact was the reason which make us smile over that person as I thought that his Mother or Sister would be in trouble and wants my help which he was unable to provide and may be he was reminding me by saying off 'Sardarji Barah Baj Gaye'

Lets not forget that its the Hindu punjabi women who gave birth to Sikh sardars by letting the elder sons join Guru Gobin Singhjis Khalsa forces. :coffee:
 
Let me tell about Maharaja Ranjit Singh .He was undoubtly one of great son of mother india.

I still remember reading a small poem about him in my fifth class of school book in my regional language .

Its was about ,i dont how much true ,how a stone thrown by an poor old woman accidentally hit on the eye the Maharaja Ranjit Singh and made him blind in that eye.But the Noble king pardoned the poor lady and instead, offered her some food to eat . A gesture that only an indian king can display and its almost like one of those stories from "Panchatantra" book.
 
All those u think that Ranjit Singh presecuted muslims and destroyed their mosque....here is the opinion of his Foreign Minister , a muslim himself about his maharaja.

"When the Foreign Minister of the Ranjit Singh's court , Fakir Azizuddin, met the British Governor-General of India, Lord Auckland, in Simla, Lord Auckland asked Fakir Azizuddin which of the Maharaja's eyes was missing, Azizuddin replied: "The Maharaja is like the sun and sun has only one eye. The splendor and luminosity of his single eye is so much that I have never dared to look at his other eye." The Governor General was so pleased with this reply that he gave his gold watch to Azizuddin"
 
Contrary to the wisdom, foresight and diplomacy shown by the Begums of Bhopal, the story in some other Muslim countries, and even in our own country, was quite different. For instance in Punjab, a Muslim by the name of Abdur Rahman encouraged Lahorites to plot against the ruler, Geet Singh. Other Muslims like Mohkam Din, Mufti Mukarram, Mian Tahir, Mian Baqar helped Ranjit Singh occupy Lahore. Mohkam Din had opened the Lohari Gate for Ranjit Singh's army. Despite the fact that many Muslims were holding important positions, such as Foreign Minister Faqir Azizuddin, Ranjit Singh turned Badshahi Mosque into a stable and all other mosques met the same fate. Those Muslim collaborators and did nothing to try to stop Ranjit Singh from desecrating the mosques.

The News International - No. 1 English Newspaper from Pakistan - Thursday, March 25, 2010

Every Pakistani knows what sikhs did to our beautiful Mosques. You dont have to tell us, thankfully ranjit singh's rule didnt last long like the Muslim empires of the subcontinent did.

A article written by Dr A Q khan, the (in) famous nuclear scientist.
Sorry , not a very credible source for me.
 
All sikh gurus and the followers are hindu Khatris and jatts who got baptised in to sikhism.All are sons and daughter of hindu son of the soli.Unlike muslims,there hardly any foregin blood following in sikhs.
And barely any conversion of muslims to sikhism took place.

I highly dout that statement

Any link to support ur claim????

well I think that gentleman in the picture below looks like muslim

314b8c3f66064555c522c9cc13129774.jpg

PIR BUDDHU SHAH giving his son and his followers to Khalsa
-----------------------------

and regarding second statement

following pics will be enough
976a59bc07cf73d6fe31ef2a9147d859.jpg
 
I highly dout that statement

Any link to support ur claim????

well I think that gentleman in the picture below looks like muslim

314b8c3f66064555c522c9cc13129774.jpg

PIR BUDDHU SHAH giving his son and his followers to Khalsa
-----------------------------

and regarding second statement

following pics will be enough
976a59bc07cf73d6fe31ef2a9147d859.jpg

There was no evidence of any muslim man or woman leaving islam converting to Sikhism.

There are few instances of muslim Sufi saints having association with Sikh gurus and admiring them,but they too never converted to sikhism.There may be handful of aberrations over the period of history.

One other thing,lets not forget that in 16th ,17th,even in 18th century its the muslims who were ruling punjab and major parts of india.

according to Sharia laws things were judged . In Sharia, leaving islam and becoming a kafir ,u get punished by death.Also ,if any one had become a non muslim,he would have to pay Jajiya tax at that time.Thats why there was no reason for muslims to leave islam and join the Sikh panth and none happened.


attach][


Not talking about present time at all.
 
Ok I have to side with Omar_1984 now.. all this Hindu Bindu Sikh Wikh stuff is getting really annoying.. please take it back to Indian forums.. I am sure many Indians will be interested in it on how Sikhs saved Hindus from Muslims... we don't care.. neither do we give a damn.. and neither do we have a time to read such long long articles.. Anything which is more than 10 lines long.. i tend to ignore it.
 
biplob said:
Very true. But..

Sikhism isnt religion but a panth(path) like Buddism,jainism including may strands hinduism.

Errr.. what?? The Sikh panth's foundation is the Rehat Maryada.. the code of conduct.. It is basically a path to the RELIGION of Sikhism! Buddhism and Jainism our their own religions.. quit trolling by saying that Sikhism is not a religion.. maybe not in your Hindu RSS books.. but ask the rest of the Sikhs here...

Pls dont talk as if sikhs were the saviours of hindus who had landed from some outer space.

All sikh gurus and the followers are hindu Khatris and jatts who got baptised in to sikhism.All are sons and daughter of hindu son of the soli.Unlike muslims,there hardly any foregin blood following in sikhs.

First of all, get your facts straight.. Majority of the muslims in Indian subcontinent are not "foreign blood"... majority of Muslims are subcontinental.. their ancestors were Hindus who rejected Hinduism... same goes for Sikhism... those guys were SIKHS!!! As soon as they got baptized into Sikhism, that was it, they were HINDUS NO LONGER!! Get that through your head.. there is no such thing as "Hindu blood".. Hinduism is just a philosophy...

And barely any conversion of muslims to sikhism took place.

dont tell me assocaition of some sufi with sikh Gurus,but they nevr got baptised or left Islam

Before the 10th Guru, there was no such thing as baptism into the Sikh religion.. it was an idea which you followed... and all the writings and teachings of those Sufi saints.. be that Islam or Sikhism.. it does not matter.. all Sikhs follow them.. because they teach pretty much the same thing as what Guru Nanak taught!! As for conversions, there was never a request for anyone to be converted.. there still isn't.. you should come to Punjab and see how badly the so called "Rashtriya Sikh Sangat" (Hindu RSS converts to Sikhism) are HATED.. they are HINDUS at heart.. only put the turban on their head to try to corrupt the Sikh religion.... it is stupid stuff like that which RSS pulls which is making Punjab getting back close to extremist views... just like how they recently started hanging Bhindrawala's picture in the main Sikh museum at Amritsar..

Also doesn't change the fact about people such as Abul Turrani and Mohammad Bashir.. spies sent by their respective governments to spy on Khalsa fighters... and they all ended up converting to Sikhism.. Abul Turrani was Mughal Spy who converted and became Ajmer Singh when he infiltrated Khalsa army.. and Bashir Muhammad was Indian government spy who was spying on Khalistani fighters but ended up joining them and converting and becoming Lachman Singh Babbar.. not that we are big on conversions.. we don't ask anyone to convert to Sikhism.. just leave us alone and stop claiming that we're Hindus...

Isnt it true ,there was long tradition of punjabi hindus to donate their elder son in the khasla army and sikhs panth ??

No one ASKED them to be converted.. and since they converted, they are HINDUS NO MORE!!!

So in that sense ,who do u thing the kashmiri pundit would have asked for help ,the Rajput down south or Maraths who under Sivaji getting dominant, instead of the sikh guru , whwn especally Guru Teg Bhadarji who had very cordial relations with Kashmiris pundits ??

Or pick up the sword and fight for themselves for a change?? Sikhs were not even such a strong military force when Guru Tegh Bahadur was asked for help.. Rajputs or Marathas were way stronger.. but still he ended up achieving Shahadat for them..

Lets not forget that its the Hindu punjabi women who gave birth to Sikh sardars by letting the elder sons join Guru Gobin Singhjis Khalsa forces.

So what difference does that make?? Even Mughal emporers like Jehangir had a Hindu link to them.. so go label them Hindus.. we're Sikhs through and through.. it is not the blood in your viens which makes you a Sikh but your faith and practices which make you a Sikh... you guys have yet to get that through your head... :mad:
 
First of all, get your facts straight.. Majority of the muslims in Indian subcontinent are not "foreign blood"... majority of Muslims are subcontinental.. their ancestors were Hindus who rejected Hinduism... same goes for Sikhism... those guys were SIKHS!!! As soon as they got baptized into Sikhism, that was it, they were HINDUS NO LONGER!! Get that through your head.. there is no such thing as "Hindu blood".. Hinduism is just a philosophy...

You are right Iqbal, 99% Indian Muslims are indigenous to India.. they look no different than Hindus..
 
Omar,

If you think culture is not as important then please become Arab and follow their culture, language, food etc.. You have to admit that Islam is global religion and it varies from place to place and takes the color of the place it is in..

Look at Iranians, they are very proud of their pre-Islamic history.. their language Farsi, and their culture... Punjabis and Sindhis are "indic" people... culturally they are similar to Indians... they are not Arabs...

I think you are one of those Pakistanis.. who think history of Pakistan started with the invasion of Sindh by Mohammed Bin Qasim :azn::azn:

Pakistan's past is rich and they should be proud of it. Yes, we are are muslims, but forgeting the past is not the right way.

For example we in Afghanistan, Iran, Tajikistan, Samaraqand and Bukhara are muslims but we never forget the history of our country and its past. we cant substitue Farsi with Arabic just because we are muslims. We still celebrate our thousands of years customs and occasions with pride(Such as Novrooz etc), but that does not make us any less muslim.
 
Pakistan's past is rich and they should be proud of it. Yes, we are are muslims, but forgeting the past is not the right way.

For example we in Afghanistan, Iran, Tajikistan, Samaraqand and Bukhara are muslims but we never forget the history of our country and its past. we cant substitue Farsi with Arabic just because we are muslims. We still celebrate our thousands of years customs and occasions with pride(Such as Novrooz etc), but that does not make us any less muslim.

yes i Agree... i tried explaining that to Omar.. but he is very very rigid :confused:
 
Mister Fateh :taz:,

You have to understand that Pakistanis are not a monolithic group... Pakistan is diverse and you will hear diverse opinions in every aspect.... If he is not tolerant atleast you can be tolerant and avoid sticking subtle insults in your arguments..:agree:

Well I was replying to Omar, and he thinks Pakistan is a monolithic group and that you are NOT a pakistani :)

Also, it was not a subtle insult, it was a statement of fact, we TRULY ARE happy that intolerant supremacists left, Really! Its amazing that you felt insulted when I called a supremacist intolerant, but you youself can't stop talking about peopls' color and looks. Extend to others what you expect from others.
 
Well I was replying to Omar, and he thinks Pakistan is a monolithic group and that you are NOT a pakistani :)

we TRULY ARE happy that intolerant supremacists left,

Ok I don't know what you mean by that statement ? We never left... we stayed where we were.. both during and after partition.. Punjabis stayed in Punjab, Kashmriis stayed in Kashmir, Balochis stayed in Balochistan, Sindhis stayed in Sindh and Pushtoons stayed in NWFP..

are you talking about Indian muslims that they left India and migrated to Pakistan ? Shame on you... I don't think Musharraf and many Indian muslims are intolerant supremacists.. ;):D

but if you are getting really happy that some Indian Muslims left.. then I won't snatch your "happy moment" away from you... :D:D
 

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