Pakistanis racial background

[Kabira]

Makes a great deal of sense, considering Turkish rulers over the years.

Yes anything is possible because M267 is not exactly Arab exclusive haplogorup.

Haplogroup J-M267 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its also possible this haplogroup was part of pre islamic migrations in to Pakistan. Haplogroups does not tells you much because they cover vast area most of the times.

 

[waz]

Yes anything is possible because M267 is not exactly Arab exclusive haplogorup.

Haplogroup J-M267 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its also possible this haplogroup was part of pre islamic migrations in to Pakistan. Haplogroups does not tells you much because they cover vast area most of the times.

That's true as well. The mysteries of genes hey.

 

[ito]

Do you see any Pakistani group clustering with North Indians here?

Few Punjabi Indian tribes (khatris, jatts, rajputs) indeed cluster with Pakistani punjabis but they make 1.1% of Indian population.

Ghenda Shaib, most pakistanis are hindu converts to islamic faiths to escape caste discrimination of hindus . more over given india's size, indians are 100 times more diverse and clustering all of them in one or two clusters shows that your map is made-up in some madarasa.

I suggest you teach you theory to some madarasa kids, not to me.

 

[Kabira]

Ghenda Shaib, most pakistanis are hindu converts to islamic faiths to escape caste discrimination of hindus . more over given india's size, indians are 100 times more diverse and clustering all of them in one or two clusters shows that your map is made-up in some madarasa.

I suggest you teach you theory to some madarasa kids, not to me.

Yep Indians are very diverse and cluster on top of each other instead of with Pakistanis.

 

[ito]

Yep Indians are very diverse and cluster on top of each other instead of with Pakistanis.

it is logical.... if pakistanis are hindu converts how would they have distinct genetics pool from that of north indians.

this is one article published by your own pakistani in discovery magazine( a internationally reputed science magazine)

Pakistanis are just like Indians (not that there's anything wrong with it)

In the comments below a strange conversation grew out of the politicized nature of Pakistani identity, and its relationship to India the nation-state, and India the civilization. I assume that a typical reader, or more accurately commenter, on this weblog would be sanguine if they found out they were 10% chimpanzee. After all, it’s what’s between your ears that really matters, not who your ancestors were. I do understand that some readers have strong genealogical-nationalist interests in human population genetics, and that’s fine so long as you don’t presume that the rest of us share such priorities (this is a problem for some commenters, so please be aware that I get annoyed when you project this way, though it’s obviously not a banning offense).

But readers who come via search engines are a different case, and that’s why I’ve started to get worried about over-reading of PCA and such. Nevertheless, I do think PCA can answer the question of whether there is any real genetic discontinuity between Pakistanis and Indians. The answer is no. Page 19 of Reich et al. supplement 1 includes in the HGDP Pakistani populations in their plot of genetic variation of Indian groups. I’ve added some labels, but the top-line is rather clear. AP = Andhara Pradesh, UP = Uttar Pradesh, GUJ = Gujarat and RAJ = Rajasthan. I assume Ind. and Pak. abbreviations are self-evident.

Obviously it isn’t strictly true that Pakistanis are just like Indians. But, Pakistanis are pretty much exactly where you’d expect from their position in relation to India. There is only a small component of recent Persian or Central Asian ancestry, as evident by the relative closeness of Muslim Pakistanis with Hindu groups, who would presumably lack this component. The point of this post isn’t to vindicate or refute a particular political position, it’s to reinforce what’s been pretty clear from genetics over the past generation.

 

[Not Sure]

Genographic Project Research in India Looks to Add Deep Branches to Our Human Family Tree
The path along India’s coast is thought to be the original human migratory route from Africa. Today India is home to many distinct languages and cultures. Genographic research extends to the Jammu and Kashmir state where present day and ancient history combine.

Genographic Project grantee Dr. Swarkar Sharma wants to share a story – the rich and ancient history of the people of northern India. The story he wants to tell is hidden in the foothills of the world’s tallest mountains in the landlocked Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, but also locked in the DNA of the residents of this majestic region. Through the analysis of the DNA, Dr. Sharma is looking to unlock the stories of the region by collaborating with the local people and revealing their fascinating ancient history.


Jammu region of Northern India. Photo courtesy of W.E. Garrett/National Geographic Creative
Dr. Sharma explains that Jammu and Kashmir state is one of the most fascinating places to study ancient ancestry. Just back from the field, he recounts, “within India, Jammu and Kashmir has the distinction of possessing modern, medieval and ancient history, as well as rich archaeological data.”

As the world’s second-most populous nation, India has been a region of interest for the project since Genographic’s inception. Its history holds a key to our understanding of the world’s genetic diversity. Not only is India’s coast thought to be the original human migratory path out of Africa, but India is also home to hundreds of languages including the large families of the Dravidian in the south and Indo-European in the north. Given its size, linguistic diversity, and key geographic location in South-Central Asia, India remains one of the most important places to study genetic diversity.


Kid from Jammu and Kashmir state. Photo courtesy of Swarkar Sharma
“These areas have human signatures that date back to the late Pleistocene,” explains Dr. Sharma. “And the Jammu and Kashmir region specifically has difficult mountainous terrain, but also valleys that may have acted as doorways to Central Asia from the Indian Subcontinent plains.”

Previous genetic research in India has revealed very deep branches, or haplogroups, of the human family tree. India is home to maternal macro-haplogroups M and N, among others, the presumed grandmothers to all non-African maternal lineages. With regards to paternal haplogroups, India is the birthplace of haplogroup R1, the most common group in Europe; haplogroup Q, the grandfather of most Native American lineages; and even haplogroups C and D, the oldest paternal branches outside of Africa. India is also home to its own unique haplogroups – such as H and L – found almost nowhere else in the world. The diversity and history of the region are both rich and complex, and we are just now starting to piece them together.


The team during field work. Photo courtesy of Swarkar Sharma.
“We may discover some untold evolutionary stories and most likely discover some novel maternal and paternal lineages, isolated and restricted to these regions,” explains Dr. Sharma excitedly. Stay tuned to future Genographic Project updates to learn more about what Dr. Sharma and his team are discovering.



I am a Hindu from Eastern India (MP, UP, Bihar) and participated in Genographic Project. The result said my closest reference point is Pamiri people of Tajikistan. It does not mean that I may necessarily be related to those Tajiks, rather it simply means we have more similarity in our DNAs.

 

[Kabira]

it is logical.... if pakistanis are hindu converts how would they have distinct genetics pool from that of north indians.

this is one article published by your own pakistani in discovery magazine( a internationally reputed science magazine)

Pakistanis are just like Indians (not that there's anything wrong with it)

In the comments below a strange conversation grew out of the politicized nature of Pakistani identity, and its relationship to India the nation-state, and India the civilization. I assume that a typical reader, or more accurately commenter, on this weblog would be sanguine if they found out they were 10% chimpanzee. After all, it’s what’s between your ears that really matters, not who your ancestors were. I do understand that some readers have strong genealogical-nationalist interests in human population genetics, and that’s fine so long as you don’t presume that the rest of us share such priorities (this is a problem for some commenters, so please be aware that I get annoyed when you project this way, though it’s obviously not a banning offense).

But readers who come via search engines are a different case, and that’s why I’ve started to get worried about over-reading of PCA and such. Nevertheless, I do think PCA can answer the question of whether there is any real genetic discontinuity between Pakistanis and Indians. The answer is no. Page 19 of Reich et al. supplement 1 includes in the HGDP Pakistani populations in their plot of genetic variation of Indian groups. I’ve added some labels, but the top-line is rather clear. AP = Andhara Pradesh, UP = Uttar Pradesh, GUJ = Gujarat and RAJ = Rajasthan. I assume Ind. and Pak. abbreviations are self-evident.


View attachment 141916

Obviously it isn’t strictly true that Pakistanis are just like Indians. But, Pakistanis are pretty much exactly where you’d expect from their position in relation to India. There is only a small component of recent Persian or Central Asian ancestry, as evident by the relative closeness of Muslim Pakistanis with Hindu groups, who would presumably lack this component. The point of this post isn’t to vindicate or refute a particular political position, it’s to reinforce what’s been pretty clear from genetics over the past generation.

Map i posted is pretty clear, you cannot fight science. North Indians do not cluster with any Pakistani ethnic group. As i said only few pockects of Indian punjabi tribes do.

Genographic Project Research in India Looks to Add Deep Branches to Our Human Family Tree
The path along India’s coast is thought to be the original human migratory route from Africa. Today India is home to many distinct languages and cultures. Genographic research extends to the Jammu and Kashmir state where present day and ancient history combine.

Genographic Project grantee Dr. Swarkar Sharma wants to share a story – the rich and ancient history of the people of northern India. The story he wants to tell is hidden in the foothills of the world’s tallest mountains in the landlocked Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, but also locked in the DNA of the residents of this majestic region. Through the analysis of the DNA, Dr. Sharma is looking to unlock the stories of the region by collaborating with the local people and revealing their fascinating ancient history.

View attachment 141924
Jammu region of Northern India. Photo courtesy of W.E. Garrett/National Geographic Creative
Dr. Sharma explains that Jammu and Kashmir state is one of the most fascinating places to study ancient ancestry. Just back from the field, he recounts, “within India, Jammu and Kashmir has the distinction of possessing modern, medieval and ancient history, as well as rich archaeological data.”

As the world’s second-most populous nation, India has been a region of interest for the project since Genographic’s inception. Its history holds a key to our understanding of the world’s genetic diversity. Not only is India’s coast thought to be the original human migratory path out of Africa, but India is also home to hundreds of languages including the large families of the Dravidian in the south and Indo-European in the north. Given its size, linguistic diversity, and key geographic location in South-Central Asia, India remains one of the most important places to study genetic diversity.

View attachment 141925
Kid from Jammu and Kashmir state. Photo courtesy of Swarkar Sharma
“These areas have human signatures that date back to the late Pleistocene,” explains Dr. Sharma. “And the Jammu and Kashmir region specifically has difficult mountainous terrain, but also valleys that may have acted as doorways to Central Asia from the Indian Subcontinent plains.”

Previous genetic research in India has revealed very deep branches, or haplogroups, of the human family tree. India is home to maternal macro-haplogroups M and N, among others, the presumed grandmothers to all non-African maternal lineages. With regards to paternal haplogroups, India is the birthplace of haplogroup R1, the most common group in Europe; haplogroup Q, the grandfather of most Native American lineages; and even haplogroups C and D, the oldest paternal branches outside of Africa. India is also home to its own unique haplogroups – such as H and L – found almost nowhere else in the world. The diversity and history of the region are both rich and complex, and we are just now starting to piece them together.

View attachment 141926
The team during field work. Photo courtesy of Swarkar Sharma.
“We may discover some untold evolutionary stories and most likely discover some novel maternal and paternal lineages, isolated and restricted to these regions,” explains Dr. Sharma excitedly. Stay tuned to future Genographic Project updates to learn more about what Dr. Sharma and his team are discovering.


I am a Hindu from Eastern India (MP, UP, Bihar) and participated in Genographic Project. The result said my closest reference point is Pamiri people of Tajikistan. It does not mean that I may necessarily be related to those Tajiks, rather it simply means we have more similarity in our DNAs.

Brother only pashtuns from South Asia cluster with Pamiri tajiks, if you are not one then Genographic Project got it wrong.

 

[ito]

Map i posted is pretty clear, you cannot fight science. North Indians do not cluster with any Pakistani. As i said only few pockects of Indian punjabi tribes do.



Brother only pashtuns from South Asia cluster with Pamiri tajiks, if you are not one then Genographic Project got it wrong.

Ghenda Sahib...now how can Pakistanis will have different genetics pool if they are low caste hindu converts. I posted a similar PCA graph from discovery magazine. your PCA graph seems to be made up. you cannot put 1.3 b people in two clusters.

 

[TSA321]

Incredibly mixed.

 

[Not Sure]

Brother only pashtuns from South Asia cluster with Pamiri tajiks, if you are not one then Genographic Project got it wrong.

Like I said, I am a Hindu. Also, I have record of my lineage going back at least 1500 years (even before that, but we don't have linguistic experts) - no change in caste either while maternal and paternal ancestors traveled only between Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Bengal, and Bihar in the last 1200 years. My second reference point is Southern India because one-fifth of my DNA is of Southeast Asian origin.

Anyway, on this matter, I'd trust the Genographic Project over you.

 

[Irfioo7]

Haplogroup J* (Mainly found in Socotra, with a few observations in Pakistan, Oman, Greece ,Czechia, and among Turkic peoples)Haplogroup J1 (M267) (Mostly associated with Semitic peoples in the Middle East, Ethiopia, and North Africa, Iran, Pakistan, India and with northeast Caucasians peoples in Dagestan; J1 with DYS388=13 is associated with eastern Anatolia)

 

[Irfioo7]

My parents migrated from hajipur and hoshiarpur-India ,both are Arain , majority of people living in Punjab converted to Islam from Sikhism are called jutts ,while we are not considered converts and there is a story that we belong to Jericho-Syria and we came with Muhammad bin Qasim

 

[Kabira]

Ghenda Sahib...now how can Pakistanis will have different genetics pool if they are low caste hindu converts. I posted a similar PCA graph from discovery magazine. your PCA graph seems to be made up. you cannot put 1.3 b people in two clusters.

1 or 10 billion, Indian genetic pool is same. It does not depend on size of population. As i said you can't fight science. Indians are indeed unique and different then low caste Pakistanis.

 

[Irfioo7]

And yes I also have a hook nose which I consider a little ugly

 

[Norwegian]

We are all from monkeys per darwinism. Can we end this BS discussion now?