Pakistan likely to buy S20 submarines from China

[EyanKhan]

These S20 does not look much deadlier,Can it fire SLCM?

doesn't look like though i am not sure
p.s this is not the final deal

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

What happened to Qing submarines??

qing was an experimental ssk designed to carry slbms
media is simply speculating that its s 20 it may be a completely different sub
pn will not buy subs without slcm capability and AIP

 

[kaykay]

qing was an experimental ssk designed to carry slbms
media is simply speculating that its s 20 it may be a completely different sub
pn will not buy subs without slcm capability and AIP

Well If I am not wrong then adding an AIP won't be a problem for China and regarding SLCM, though S20 will have no VLS, It can still fire it through torpedo tubes(similarly to Our Kilo class which use tubes to fire Klub missiles too along with Tarpedos).

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well If I am not wrong then adding an AIP won't be a problem for China and regarding SLCM, though S20 will have no VLS, It can still fire it through torpedo tubes(similarly to Our Kilo class which use tubes to fire Klub missiles too along with Tarpedos).

it can be s 20 or another sub no one knows

 

[somebozo]

Why buy and not build? We cannot accomplish $h1t in 65 years beside dreaming Ghazwa Hind?

 

[jarves]

Why buy and not build? We cannot accomplish $h1t in 65 years beside dreaming Ghazwa Hind?

HUH???
You believe in Ghazwa-e-hind???

 

[Lil Mathew]

PN should acquire about 8-10 of S-20 and they must try to talk to BD now for selling 3 Agosta-90Bs to them in coming 3 years time. I am sure China will be able to deliver 5-6 Submarines in 3 years time and rest in shorter time.

Pak navy budget is merely $500-550 million only.. After revenue expenditures (wages and payments of ~35000 navy personels, stores,medical etc), then training, running cost( maintaining navy fleets, aircrafts, wepons etc)... There may be only ~$200-250 left for capital expenses.. With this money how you will buy these much in 3 years? (+another warships, supportive sys and sub sys, wepons,missiles etc etc)... For example there was news that Indian 6 scorpene deal's (with ToT) cost escalates to somewhat $3.8billion in 2010..

 

[khanasifm]

Not sure what this is but show SLBM and AIP, someone can translate

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

S20 fitted with AIP is certainly on par with German U214. Looks like a winner for PN. 6 new subs are definitely needed, with 2 of these replacing Agosta 70. S20 is a pretty big sub. Beat 8 meters, compared to 6.2 meters for Scorpene and 6.3 meters for U214. Can't wait for the deal

ON PAR WITH GERMAN U214 care to eloborate sir.

 

[SBD-3]

Two VLS bays?

 

[Rahil khan]

In how much time this deal would be completed in terms of delivery, in case of when after the deal is finalized???

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

Pak navy budget is merely $500-550 million only.. After revenue expenditures (wages and payments of ~35000 navy personels, stores,medical etc), then training, running cost( maintaining navy fleets, aircrafts, wepons etc)... There may be only ~$200-250 left for capital expenses.. With this money how you will buy these much in 3 years? (+another warships, supportive sys and sub sys, wepons,missiles etc etc)... For example there was news that Indian 6 scorpene deal's (with ToT) cost escalates to somewhat $3.8billion in 2010..[/quot]
i must say you know everything

 

[Quwa]

For those wondering how Pakistan will finance this deal, my answer to you is..."it might not."

Now before jumping me and claiming China won't give Pakistan aid, I want you to consider the following reality.

China is in the midst of being pressured by the US in the Pacific Ocean (read: "pivot to East Asia"). By cementing its presence in Afghanistan and Central Asia, the US is doing what it can to set up checks on China. To make matters worse, the US has also built up healthy ties with India, Japan, South Korea and Australia, all major powers in China's vicinity.

In order to relieve this pressure the Chinese need to set up checks and posts of their own. However, they are *not* in the mood of having to set up bases for their own forces. China will not go that far. However, it can still relieve that pressure by equipping other powers around the world with good military capabilities. It's a much easier process than to set up one's own post.

This is where a submarine deal with Pakistan comes into play. A stronger Pakistan Navy (and Air Force) will force India to watch its back as it shifts its focus towards China. For every $1bn US China pumps into Pakistan, India may end up committing as much or even more in order to put a check on Pakistan. Just think about Pakistan's stand-off strike capabilities afford by JF-17 and Ra' ad or CM-400AKG. I'm not saying Pakistan's incredibly strong, but these aren't easily-stoppable capabilities, India will have to focus its defensive and offensive efforts back west in order to keep Pakistan away from being too dangerous.

In all likelihood, we'll see Pakistan work on building up its submarine fleet. They'll use the S20 as a baseline for a custom submarine that will be produced locally in relatively sizable numbers, i.e. 12-15. Supporting them will be a strengthened aerial force comprised of more PAF fighter assets and newer maritime patrol and ASW aircraft (e.g. ATR-72). The 'offensive' force will be formed by submarines and aircraft, the 'defensive' and general duties (e.g. patrol, coastal defence, etc) will be taken on by the F-22Ps, an ASW-focused corvette and missile boats. I don't see PN taking on any large frigates or destroyers.

 

[razgriz19]

Pak navy budget is merely $500-550 million only.. After revenue expenditures (wages and payments of ~35000 navy personels, stores,medical etc), then training, running cost( maintaining navy fleets, aircrafts, wepons etc)... There may be only ~$200-250 left for capital expenses.. With this money how you will buy these much in 3 years? (+another warships, supportive sys and sub sys, wepons,missiles etc etc)... For example there was news that Indian 6 scorpene deal's (with ToT) cost escalates to somewhat $3.8billion in 2010..

operating budget is different than purchasing budget. When the military needs something, government allocates a separate budget than the yearly spending one.

 

[razgriz19]

My friend maybe I am wrong but why did Pakistan approach Germany when it did not have cash? were we playing again like Mirage 2000 saga. Does it mean we did not tell them we had cash we went made them fools check the subs and told them please sir give us discount we can pay in 2 decades that would be sweeter.

It is matter of concern to both US/israel and hindustanis if Pak gets the best german subs that have the capabilities to fire SLCM.

We had the funds to finance the deal, but it started to fall apart after the 2005 earthquake. Musharraf would've bought them otherwise.