Pakistan likely to buy S20 submarines from China

[Kompromat]

 

[Zarvan]

View attachment 16398

So this is the underwater giant which we want to get hope we get it soon without facing any money problems

 

[kurup]

Two VLS bays?

Where do you see the VLS bays ??

 

[SBD-3]

Lots of China’s New Submarines with European and Russian Technology
Posted: April 19, 2013 | Author: chankaiyee2 | Filed under: Uncategorized | Tags: air-independent propulsion, Amur-class, China, Chinese navy, hydrophonic detection, S-20 submarine, submarine, towed sonar, Type 041 submarine, Yuan-class | Leave a comment »






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According to a report at Russian Military Messenger Net, Nekolai Novichkov, chief editor of the military column of ITAR-TASS, and a commentator of the column have published an article on Military Messenger Weekly that gives an analysis of the consequence of Russian export of Amur-class conventional submarines to China. They point out that the new S-20 submarine that China recently displays is able to carry anti-ship missiles. Its first batch of potential buyers perhaps includes Pakistan and Bangladesh. The article also says that judging by satellite photos, China has built seven or eight Yuan-class diesel-engine submarines since September 2004 and had commissioned four Type 041 submarines by early 2012.

The following is the full text of the article at Russian Military Messenger Net:

The two writers point out: China is now striving to become an exporter of modern conventional submarines. For that purpose, China is thirsty of the newest submarine technology. As soon as China emerges as a producer on global submarine market, it will not only affect French and Swedish market shares, but also deal a blow at the two leaders in conventional submarine market: Germany and Russia.

At the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition in Malaysia from March 26 to 30, China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation again displayed its S-20 diesel-engine submarine. A model of that submarine was displayed at NAVDEX at Abu Dhabi in February this year for the first time ever. The Chinese staff participating in the exhibition said that S-20 was developed not merely for domestic demand but also for export on international market.

S-20 submarine has 6 torpedo launching tubes at its bow. The structure of its driving cabin and stern looks more similar to a diminished copy of Yuan-class conventional submarine. It is necessary to point out that the submarine has been developed on the basis of the Russian and European technology obtained specially for Type 041 to be used by Chinese navy. Naval experts believe that S-20’s first batch of potential buyers may probably be Pakistan and Bangladesh.

China’s Type 041 conventional submarine was first found in 2004. On February 27 that year a US reconnoiter satellite found a submarine of that type at a shipyard in Wuhan Shipbuilding Plant. Since then, Chinese navy has commissioned one by one 7 to 8 Type 041 submarines. US Defense Ministry forecast in 2010 that China will build 15 submarines of that new type.

US reconnoiter satellite did not find any trace of Yuan-class submarine in the period from 2005 to 2006. That is understandable: According to China’s strategy of submarine construction. The first submarine shall undergo a series of tests for a relatively long duration of time. It was not until September 21, 2007 that a Yuan-class submarine was found again. Experts believe that the submarine found then was the second Type 041 submarine (the first built by mass production). On November 27 the same year two more such submarines appeared at Wuhan Shipbuilding Plant, which experts believe were the second and third Type 041 submarines.

Later, the two submarines both sailed out to undergo tests for a long time because according to satellite photos taken in 2009, no Type 041 was found at Wuhan Shipbuilding Plant. It was not until December 7, 2010, a reconnoiter satellite found three submarines of that type at Wuhan Shipbuilding Plant. On April 26, 2011 photos taken by satellites revealed that construction of one Type 041 submarine had completed and the ship was sailing to Shanghai.

That means that judging by satellite photos, since September 2004, China has built 7 or 8 Yuan-class diesel-electric submarines, of which the first one (no. 330) was commissioned in 2006. In early 2012, four Type 041 submarines (nos. 330-333) were in service, one more, being built and three more, to be built.

As for S-20 submarines for export, there are clear difference between it and Type 041. S-20’s length is 66 meters, beam, 8 meters, draft, 8.2 meters, surface displacement, 1850 tons, submerged displacement, 2,300 tons, maximum speed, 18 knots, cruise speed, 16 knots, range, 8,000 nautical miles at 16 knots, endurance, 60 days and crew, 38. It is double hulled with maximum submerging depth of 300 meters. Different from the Type 041 exclusively for Chinese navy, the ship is not equipped with air-independent propulsion (but can be installed on demand).

S-20 submarine is equipped with variable frequency hydrophonic detection device and towed sonar. Its major weapons include torpedoes, naval mines, anti-ship missiles, etc. China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation gives no details about the types of weapon to be installed on S-20 submarine, but it declares that it may provide torpedoes, rocket-propelled torpedoes, anti-torpedo torpedoes, etc.

Source: mil.huanqiu.com “Russian media: quite a few China’s new submarines found by satellite; their technology originated from Russia and Europe”

Related posts:
China to build 15 more Yuan-class submarines with German engines
China to Buy Super Quiet Russian Submarines to Counter US Aircraft Carrier

 

[razgriz19]

So this is the underwater giant which we want to get hope we get it soon without facing any money problems

That's a Yuan class sub, not the smaller S20

 

[aliaselin]

Lots of China’s New Submarines with European and Russian Technology
Posted: April 19, 2013 | Author: chankaiyee2 | Filed under: Uncategorized | Tags: air-independent propulsion, Amur-class, China, Chinese navy, hydrophonic detection, S-20 submarine, submarine, towed sonar, Type 041 submarine, Yuan-class | Leave a comment »



Rate This


According to a report at Russian Military Messenger Net, Nekolai Novichkov, chief editor of the military column of ITAR-TASS, and a commentator of the column have published an article on Military Messenger Weekly that gives an analysis of the consequence of Russian export of Amur-class conventional submarines to China. They point out that the new S-20 submarine that China recently displays is able to carry anti-ship missiles. Its first batch of potential buyers perhaps includes Pakistan and Bangladesh. The article also says that judging by satellite photos, China has built seven or eight Yuan-class diesel-engine submarines since September 2004 and had commissioned four Type 041 submarines by early 2012.

The following is the full text of the article at Russian Military Messenger Net:

The two writers point out: China is now striving to become an exporter of modern conventional submarines. For that purpose, China is thirsty of the newest submarine technology. As soon as China emerges as a producer on global submarine market, it will not only affect French and Swedish market shares, but also deal a blow at the two leaders in conventional submarine market: Germany and Russia.

At the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition in Malaysia from March 26 to 30, China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation again displayed its S-20 diesel-engine submarine. A model of that submarine was displayed at NAVDEX at Abu Dhabi in February this year for the first time ever. The Chinese staff participating in the exhibition said that S-20 was developed not merely for domestic demand but also for export on international market.

S-20 submarine has 6 torpedo launching tubes at its bow. The structure of its driving cabin and stern looks more similar to a diminished copy of Yuan-class conventional submarine. It is necessary to point out that the submarine has been developed on the basis of the Russian and European technology obtained specially for Type 041 to be used by Chinese navy. Naval experts believe that S-20’s first batch of potential buyers may probably be Pakistan and Bangladesh.

China’s Type 041 conventional submarine was first found in 2004. On February 27 that year a US reconnoiter satellite found a submarine of that type at a shipyard in Wuhan Shipbuilding Plant. Since then, Chinese navy has commissioned one by one 7 to 8 Type 041 submarines. US Defense Ministry forecast in 2010 that China will build 15 submarines of that new type.

US reconnoiter satellite did not find any trace of Yuan-class submarine in the period from 2005 to 2006. That is understandable: According to China’s strategy of submarine construction. The first submarine shall undergo a series of tests for a relatively long duration of time. It was not until September 21, 2007 that a Yuan-class submarine was found again. Experts believe that the submarine found then was the second Type 041 submarine (the first built by mass production). On November 27 the same year two more such submarines appeared at Wuhan Shipbuilding Plant, which experts believe were the second and third Type 041 submarines.

Later, the two submarines both sailed out to undergo tests for a long time because according to satellite photos taken in 2009, no Type 041 was found at Wuhan Shipbuilding Plant. It was not until December 7, 2010, a reconnoiter satellite found three submarines of that type at Wuhan Shipbuilding Plant. On April 26, 2011 photos taken by satellites revealed that construction of one Type 041 submarine had completed and the ship was sailing to Shanghai.

That means that judging by satellite photos, since September 2004, China has built 7 or 8 Yuan-class diesel-electric submarines, of which the first one (no. 330) was commissioned in 2006. In early 2012, four Type 041 submarines (nos. 330-333) were in service, one more, being built and three more, to be built.

As for S-20 submarines for export, there are clear difference between it and Type 041. S-20’s length is 66 meters, beam, 8 meters, draft, 8.2 meters, surface displacement, 1850 tons, submerged displacement, 2,300 tons, maximum speed, 18 knots, cruise speed, 16 knots, range, 8,000 nautical miles at 16 knots, endurance, 60 days and crew, 38. It is double hulled with maximum submerging depth of 300 meters. Different from the Type 041 exclusively for Chinese navy, the ship is not equipped with air-independent propulsion (but can be installed on demand).

S-20 submarine is equipped with variable frequency hydrophonic detection device and towed sonar. Its major weapons include torpedoes, naval mines, anti-ship missiles, etc. China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation gives no details about the types of weapon to be installed on S-20 submarine, but it declares that it may provide torpedoes, rocket-propelled torpedoes, anti-torpedo torpedoes, etc.

Source: mil.huanqiu.com “Russian media: quite a few China’s new submarines found by satellite; their technology originated from Russia and Europe”

Related posts:
China to build 15 more Yuan-class submarines with German engines
China to Buy Super Quiet Russian Submarines to Counter US Aircraft Carrier

The report made mistake for that not only Wuhan shipyard build conventional submarine in China, so the number of Type 039A/B should be doubled

 

[Nishan_101]

But I think PN N-Submarine would be 7000 Tons (Submerged) and SSK would be 3500 tons. What would you say?

I am asking just.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

But I think PN N-Submarine would be 7000 Tons (Submerged) and SSK would be 3500 tons. What would you say?

I am asking just.

There is no Nuclear PN Submarine plan, so no need to discuss it.
Only DE SSK's of Chinese origin, which are already being discussed.

 

[IceCold]

Its first batch of potential buyers perhaps includes Pakistan and Bangladesh.

If this is true than this is something to be worried about and should raise eyebrows. Bangladesh is too close in Indian camp and can provide Indians with a lot of insight about the submarine.

 

[SBD-3]

If this is true than this is something to be worried about and should raise eyebrows. Bangladesh is too close in Indian camp and can provide Indians with a lot of insight about the submarine.

Makes little difference. While the generic design may be similar but the capability may vary based on the requirements of the customer. Anyways, this "threat" of "your enemy would get an insight on the capabilities" is overblown.

 

[IceCold]

Makes little difference. While the generic design may be similar but the capability may vary based on the requirements of the customer. Anyways, this "threat" of "your enemy would get an insight on the capabilities" is overblown.

Neglecting it would equally be naive, as PN does not enjoy conventional superiority over the IN interms of numbers and other wise. Sub systems might be different but the acoustic signature because of the same design will remain more or less similar and this puts us at a disadvantage.

 

[SBD-3]

Neglecting it would equally be naive, as PN does not enjoy conventional superiority over the IN interms of numbers and other wise. Sub systems might be different but the acoustic signature because of the same design will remain more or less similar and this puts us at a disadvantage.

Accoustic signature would not change or vanish if the sub would solely be operated by Pakistan. Acoustic signature would only be affected if the whole project is revamped and re-engineered. If the noise produced by the sub is detectable, it would be detected, regardless of it being exported to another country or not. The only surprise factor would be the capabilities, may be that Pakistani sub be able to launch better AshMs or even the Sub-Launched CM (Chinese or domestic version), or that Pakistan deploy german/french torpedoes whereas Bangladesh be deploying Chinese ones....

 

[IceCold]

Accoustic signature would not change or vanish if the sub would solely be operated by Pakistan. Acoustic signature would only be affected if the whole project is revamped and re-engineered. If the noise produced by the sub is detectable, it would be detected, regardless of it being exported to another country or not. The only surprise factor would be the capabilities, may be that Pakistani sub be able to launch better AshMs or even the Sub-Launched CM (Chinese or domestic version), or that Pakistan deploy german/french torpedoes whereas Bangladesh be deploying Chinese ones....

It will not vanish, but again the enemy needs to find it, the same cannot be said if the enemy knows what kind of signature will it produce or what to look for?
The surprise factor would be not letting the enemy know what you have, once they know it, its gone. Subs operate solely on stealth, if that factor is comprised, the whole point becomes moot, Chinese or no Chinese AshM will make little difference at this stage.

 

[chauvunist]

Pardon me for my Lack of knowledge on the Subject,How Good/bad are they compare to Agosta 90b(ignoring the AIP issue) in layman term...

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Pardon me for my Lack of knowledge on the Subject,How Good/bad are they compare to Agosta 90b(ignoring the AIP issue) in layman term...

a 90s can go deeper they are faster and have longer range