PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Zarf]

Dont make any sense. It seems lisrening to these people that PAF has started growing a money tree.
Apart from the financial issue the actual acquisition does not make sense at all.
A


Beta.
Keep your enthusiasm to yourself. No one in their right mind will come to a war arena loaded up like that. Can you imagine what happens if the oponent fires a AAM towards you. You will be forced to jetison the load and run to avoid the AAM.
A

I doubt that Indians will send rafale in a skirmish like 27 Feb. While Pakistan will send J-10 for sure.

 

[araz]

I doubt that Indians will send rafale in a skirmish like 27 Feb. While Pakistan will send J-10 for sure.

Not for the next 2-3 years. Our go to fighter will remain JFT and the venerable F solah.
A

 

[Aesterix]

Just for the record, compare the size difference between a J-10C and a Thunder Bravo.

View attachment 818216

I think it's L-15 not Thunder Bravo

 

[SD 10]

I think it's L-15 not Thunder Bravo

its thunder man!

 

[siegecrossbow]

I think it's L-15 not Thunder Bravo

L-15 has two engines.

 

[TheTallGuy]

I doubt that Indians will send rafale in a skirmish like 27 Feb. While Pakistan will send J-10 for sure.

as soon as J10CE are inducted official the squadron will attain combat ready status within a month or less.

@MastanKhan

in one of your post you had pointed out that pilots training of AESA will have to "un-learned" the previous methods.

I want to add food for thought.

there is a wide difference in close couple delta combat envelope and lets say "F16" combat envelope. why are you considering that CAT A pilots trained of J10CE.

there are quite a lot of Mirage drivers who know how to handle a delta in close combat as well in BVR.

this is the reason why more the 50+ (approx) made the conversion in china and nobody noticed. (secret aside)

F16s pilots stay at F16s - new league of delta drivers are in town. who have been exposed to AESA from Get go!

wonders of having 1 is 2.5 cockpit ratio

 

[Trailer23]

I think it's L-15 not Thunder Bravo

Seriously...
Have you ever seen an L-15?

​

The two engines at back would've been a dead giveaway. Besides, there are like no similarities between the two.

 

[Areesh]

I think it's L-15 not Thunder Bravo

Bhai kia ho gaya? Clearly JFT hai

 

[Skywalker]

I think it's L-15 not Thunder Bravo

abey jaag ja bhai.

 

[Khan vilatey]

I think it's L-15 not Thunder Bravo

Trouble maker

K

 

[Aesterix]

abey jaag ja bhai.

Nahi bhai, Hum chapat maar kay bhaag janay waloon mein sey hain... Now reading reply comments . lol

 

[MastanKhan]

Salaam Mastankhan

Sometimes we all have a tendency to analyze and criticize from non-available data.

It sounds very interesting if PAF has been involved involved in the J-10 program since 2014... I do not have any knowledge of that so I can´t comment on it. But it sounds a bit of a long induction period UNLESS as you have stated that PAF was directly involved in the technical specifications of the air craft, because development, installation and the most important part integration takes a lot of time and resources.

The reason I have quoted your two post is just for an example of how difficult it can be to get knowledge and predict what has happened when you are evaluating on the present knowledge and how easy it is to do it hindsight.

So my take is on what stopped PAF to buy J-10 was that they wanted it to be better than it was. PAF worked with Chengdu with their knowledge and specification improvement. Some people may think thank PAF doesn´t have anything to bring to the table. And they are certainly wrong. YES they cant bring any industrial base to the table but they can absolutely bring aviation knowledge (and exposed to western tech) to the table. AND this is something you can´t buy or develop indigenously.

regards

Hi,

The decision to go for the J10's was during Musdharraf's regime when he made the agreement for the 36 units and to which the Paf had come up with the shortcomings of the J10 at that time and suggested some 50 changes per the Retd AM Lateef.

The current deal of the J10's came into being in or around 2014 and in 2014 I had stated the same on this forum.

To get to where the J10C is today just did not happen like that---. The aircraft needed a newly designed and tested aesa radar and other ew package----as well as the power plant.

As I am getting older---sometimes I have to go back in memory and remember things---.

The most important part of every item in the aircraft when put together is the PLAYBOOK / OR TACTICS of air combat put together for this aircraft.

Which basically determines the combat and flight characteristics of the aircraft and the pilot under different conditions of combat and this is as time consuming and intense as manufacturing the aesa radar or any other part of the aircraft---.

The J10 is 3-5 years away from being used to its fullest---the JF17 BLK 3---about 5-7 years away.

 

[tphuang]

Hi,

The decision to go for the J10's was during Musdharraf's regime when he made the agreement for the 36 units and to which the Paf had come up with the shortcomings of the J10 at that time and suggested some 50 changes per the Retd AM Lateef.

The current deal of the J10's came into being in or around 2014 and in 2014 I had stated the same on this forum.

To get to where the J10C is today just did not happen like that---. The aircraft needed a newly designed and tested aesa radar and other ew package----as well as the power plant.

As I am getting older---sometimes I have to go back in memory and remember things---.

The most important part of every item in the aircraft when put together is the PLAYBOOK / OR TACTICS of air combat put together for this aircraft.

Which basically determines the combat and flight characteristics of the aircraft and the pilot under different conditions of combat and this is as time consuming and intense as manufacturing the aesa radar or any other part of the aircraft---.

The J10 is 3-5 years away from being used to its fullest---the JF17 BLK 3---about 5-7 years away.

You have to determine the internal layout of an aircraft very early on in the process. For J-10B/C, this would've had to been determined back in mid 2000s. So all the electronics we have on J-10C today would've been some version of things CAC determined was needed back then. There is just not a lot additional space to put new stuff. For example, the diameter, the power requirement and heat management of radar would have to be determined back then. Sure, PAF might have given PLAAF some feedback based on their initial experience with J-10A (keep in mind that J-10C was not in service back in 2014), but 2014 would've been too late for China to do wholesale changes to J-10C package.

And more importantly, the ultimate goal of China in this space is to catch and surpass American technology. So, you see them going through all the research journals, papers and probably hacking confidential data in order to figure out exactly what makes sense for future radar/EW suite system. That's how they arrived at where they are today. By a lot of hard work and learning from every source that's available (especially American ones). Don't make it sound like CAC needed Pakistan to tell them that J-10C needed an AESA radar or new EW suite. Those are obvious things. Getting those things developed by 2015/2016 required a heavy investment from back in early to late 2000s (until now) into military electronics industry.

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

The decision to go for the J10's was during Musdharraf's regime when he made the agreement for the 36 units and to which the Paf had come up with the shortcomings of the J10 at that time and suggested some 50 changes per the Retd AM Lateef.

The current deal of the J10's came into being in or around 2014 and in 2014 I had stated the same on this forum.

To get to where the J10C is today just did not happen like that---. The aircraft needed a newly designed and tested aesa radar and other ew package----as well as the power plant.

As I am getting older---sometimes I have to go back in memory and remember things---.

The most important part of every item in the aircraft when put together is the PLAYBOOK / OR TACTICS of air combat put together for this aircraft.

Which basically determines the combat and flight characteristics of the aircraft and the pilot under different conditions of combat and this is as time consuming and intense as manufacturing the aesa radar or any other part of the aircraft---.

The J10 is 3-5 years away from being used to its fullest---the JF17 BLK 3---about 5-7 years away.

There is a limit to how much info can be said here, but your year estimate is way off. It is a lot nearer to the end of the decade. Unfortunately cannot say more than that.

But nonetheless, good points regarding TACTICS

Cheers

 

[MastanKhan]

as soon as J10CE are inducted official the squadron will attain combat ready status within a month or less.

@MastanKhan

in one of your post you had pointed out that pilots training of AESA will have to "un-learned" the previous methods.

I want to add food for thought.

there is a wide difference in close couple delta combat envelope and lets say "F16" combat envelope. why are you considering that CAT A pilots trained of J10CE.

there are quite a lot of Mirage drivers who know how to handle a delta in close combat as well in BVR.

this is the reason why more the 50+ (approx) made the conversion in china and nobody noticed. (secret aside)

F16s pilots stay at F16s - new league of delta drivers are in town. who have been exposed to AESA from Get go!

wonders of having 1 is 2.5 cockpit ratio

Hi

Thank you ---thanks @tphuang thanks @Raider 21 ---I love how a police detectives work when asking some basic simple questions and then the truth blurts out like a waterfall.

We have shared the information as it became known to us and think of it as the truth---and when all the truths are put together---a real picture emerges---some of us will see thru it and others will be confused.

Interesting thing is---the the discussion has moved away from specs and how many hard points the aircraft has---.