PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Dazzler]

It is even possible, J-10C in future could fit with WS-15 engine once it got commissioned.

Ty-5B to be exact. As good as PK-16LE.

 

[sur]

Let the Omar speak please......


On a serious note; Chinese needs to understand that not everyone speaks or understands Chinese language. These videos or reporters at-least needs to come up with a solution to send the message across. For example in this vide, she speaks Chinese, the subtitles are Chinese and even Omar is allowed to speak with at-least sub-titles.

I will urge members that while sharing a regional language dubbed video on international discussion; please make sure that either it has English Sub-titles or written analysis be provided so that readers will at-least have the gist out of it.

I think they heard you.
As soon as I opened this video in YT, this ad played:
Help yourself

For many other languages, an auto-translate is available built-in into YT.
Unfortunately that seems to be unavailable for Chinese language!!

 

[HRK]

I believe he has some kills against the Soviets as well.

yes & I think it was MiG-21...

 

[The Terminator]

Have to say I'm not sure about the authenticity and information from the video without the original sound from the interview. For all we know the pilot didn't say any of that, the one who make the video can put words in his mouth. But nevertheless, rough translation of the interview.

Video was uploaded on youtube on March-31-2021.

A famous PAF fighter pilot name "Omar" believe the most dangerous opponent from the join PLAAF and PAF Shaheen (Eagle) Air Exercise is the J-10C. In his opinion the J-10C is very impressive in certain situations. Especially adapted at sneaky attack when there is no AWACS support, even heavy weight fighters is having trouble dealing with it. But there are also shortcomings /problems with the J-10C. And he was very impressed with the advanced avionics and EW of the J-16 and the extremely powerful continuous maneuverability of it.

Omar is PAF 16th squadron leader who is a very experienced and skilled fighter pilot. Also holds the longest tenure of flying the JF-17 in the squadron. He also have a very good understanding of both the Eastern and western fighter jets because he flew western fighter jets including Saudi Arabia's F-15SA and Turkish F-16 in the past.

Omar stated J-10C is a very fearsome opponent. It can trace and track targets with just IRST with out turning on it's own radar and undetected by the opponents. So, J-10C can have a first shoot opportunity at it's opponents. And the J-10C radar is very advanced with it's radar signal reflection much smaller than the F-15SA. If can sneak attack enemy fighters if there were no AWACS support from the other side.

It's vertical climb rate and instant speed change is very good second only to F-16 compared to the same generation single engine fighter jets, better than Mirage-2000 and JF-17. It also equipped with PL-15 and Pl-10 and helmet mount target system that it can lock on target at a very exaggerated angle and shoot it's enemy down. It's instantaneous turn rate is also very good.

He think J-10C can improve on is need more hard-points for BVR AAM. Range is also a problem without conformal fuel tanks, not very good sustained turn rate. if J-10C can't kill it's opponent in the first 30 seconds of the dog fight, then it's a good chance for the opponent to fight back at that time.

So in simple lay man terms the PAF pilot"Omar" said that J-10C's small size and reduced RCS along with passive sensors make it an ideal Assassin (the capability which PAF lacked previously) in the absence of an AEW&C support. It's great in BVR fights with great Radar and EW suite. Has some payload configuration issues though.

Vertical climb rate and instantaneous thrust are impressive. Lacks CFTs. Not so great in WVR close quarter dogfights. But this disadvantage would greatly be mitigated by obviously employing HOBS missile. If employed from both sides then it could most probably mean MAD for both the rival jets in WVR scenarios. Great in BVR and above average in WVR is what the PLAAF's doctrine is, so J-10C fits the bill well for PLAAF.

To be continued . . . .

 

[The Terminator]

WVR close quarter WVR almost inside cannon range:

J-10 isn't that much great fighting in circles rate fight, sustained turn rates because it would bleed more energy than for example the F-16s.

The inherent design layout of huge a$$ delta wings along with canards causes this shortcoming that when you slightly increase Angle of Attack the delta wings act like huge Air brakes in middle of the dogfight which bleeds energy faster and the jet looses speed or altitude. The same is true for Mirages and other delta wings fighters or as the Russians love to show their flankers dropping from the sky like a leaf.

J-10C would be at massive disadvantage in sustained turn rate dogfights in circle which PAF might love to do so due to their previous platforms tailor made for these tactics. But J-10C could attain superiority in downward spiralling fight where it may easily force the rival jet to overshoot and present it's 6 for a sweet kill. Or in a highly unlikely scenario where the opponent is about to kiss your A$$ pull a pugachev cobra maneuver like the flankers and shoot at the enemy's 6. In both the scenarios you would loose the energy (speed and/or altitude) which could be fatal if the fight lingers on after that.

The huge twin engines of flankers like Su-30 had the advantage of just raw thrusting out of a bad energy state and single engined small jets like thunders would struggle to keep up with them in their sudden power dashes. But the induction of J-10C has also plugged that gap in WVR scenario against the flankers.

That's a brief of what pilot "Omar" might have meant in lay man's term

 

[The Terminator]

The next time Sheikh Rasheed Ahmad say JS-35 or JS-20 coming. I'm a believer!

According to TAI CEO. Fast University with collaboration of PAC/PAF is building TPFX (Turkish Pakistani fighter X, next gen/5th gen). Effectively fusing the project Azm and TAI TFX in one JV. And Obviously TAI is the leading developer here, closely working with PAC/FAST University with PAF's input.

It would increase Pakistan's weapon's design/manufacturing capabilities exponentially.

Time stamp: 18:00

Future J-20P or J-35P would complement the Project Azm (TPFX) or would be our insurance policy if God forbid something goes really wrong.

 

[Beast]

IMHO Chinese seem to be the Saudis of the East . They wouldn't speak any other language than their own even if they are fluent in Urdu, French, German and English.

The only exception is business. When it comes to business, Chinese are one of the most hardworking, persistent and relentless marketeers. They would never let you slip out or go out of their communication radar and would keep in touch with you till eternity in whatever language you wish to talk to speak . We should learn from them.

China has a proud history of their heritage. The wording we used now is not much different from almost 2000 years ago. While Persian, Old Egypt wording has long wipe out over the times...

 

[The Terminator]

Now with the arrival of the J 10C what will be their excuse if Rafael saw the dust, it was written in their 5000 old scripts French beauties are too lame?

The future golden words of Modi: "Agar F-35 veeman hota . . . . ."

Modi hai to Mumkin hai

 

[Trango Towers]

There is a thing called ROEs, you can't shoot down enemy aircraft that are in their own airspace and are not a threat to you. If you start firing indiscriminately, it escalates into open war. PAF knows better than the layman.

On that day there was war.
When the enemy came into Pakistan they didn't bring roses.
When you fight you fight hard and you punch through the bastard so he knows not to engage you again.
Pakistan missed an opportunity. Had all 9 aircraft been taken out even bollywood would have made movies of PAF legends.
India pilots would forever have feared the PAF.

 

[alphapak]

The future golden words of Modi: "Agar F-35 veeman hota . . . . ."

Maybe this time he will say "agar Pakistan ke pass J10 na hota ....."

 

[Trango Towers]

Maybe this time he will say "agar Pakistan ke pass J10 na hota ....."

PAF is turning into a formidable force.
Jf17 block 3 ...plus upgrades of block1 and 2 to 3 standard.
F16 block 52
And j10CP

If we can get numbers India won't dare

 

[Raider 21]

He is Director General, Security (DG Security), AHQ, Islamabad

View attachment 821044

Account Suspended

View attachment 821045

I believe he has some kills against the Soviets as well.

He retired from PAF military service long time ago. Otherwise his service time would have exceeded Sohail Aman who was close to him in GD(P) course number. He is senior to the current and previous air chief.

 

[araz]

Israeli's can do them under the pretext of danger to their aircraft so can we if we had the balls at that time. What India could have done at that time send more aircraft to be shot down or lick their wounds or Modi could have lost the election or wait for the Rafael to show up or wait for the clouds to change colour. They had already launched the raid on our soil previously and we could easily have claimed we stopped them from raiding again. How cowards backed off from launching the Brahamos when some one told them you launch one and you get 3 ballistic lolly pops back.
Now with the arrival of the J 10C what will be their excuse if Rafael saw the dust, it was written in their 5000 old scripts French beauties are too lame?

We are not the state of Israel. They have carte nlanche immunity to do whatever they please with noncompromising support from the US and EU. Comparing Pakistan with Israel is a great fallacy. Secondly, ( and this remains my firm belief) the fact that we had 8-9 of their ACs in our sights andchose to take only 2 out helped our narrative greatly. This was as much a military campaign as it was a narrative build up not only of us responding to an-aggression in a responsible manner but also within the ROEs. Going ape on the IAF may have gotten us more planes as trophies but the narrative game would have been lost and we would have been labelled as aggressors. 8t would have put IA, Modi, and IAF as sufferers of an,aggressive move with loss of lives and equipment. You did not see the aggression in Christine Fiarr's voice. That is a true reflection of the Western/US perception of us. The fact that we acted responsibly and stood within the ROEs gave us justification to respond go aggression on our soil.
The Indians can only cry over their loss as they have lost so badly on the narrative game that any further aggression from them would not have been possible.
The other aspect of it was making sure we gave them no grounds to escalate while being fully prepared to do so should they try anything silly. This stopped them dead in their tracks as any further aggression would have made tuem look like hullies along with giving them a bloody nose. They then chose to put their own brand of spin on it to cover their ignominous defeat, something only Indians can do.
So in all Pakistan earned a lot more out of this episode than a moral victory. They won the war of optics and narrative on a level where the other side could only lick their wounds and not do anything more.
It does not mean tuere will not be a 2nd episode of the same from them. However they are aware that the cost may not be worth the effort.
A

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

Have to say I'm not sure about the authenticity and information from the video without the original sound from the interview. For all we know the pilot didn't say any of that, the one who make the video can put words in his mouth. But nevertheless, rough translation of the interview.

Video was uploaded on youtube on March-31-2021.

A famous PAF fighter pilot name "Omar" believe the most dangerous opponent from the join PLAAF and PAF Shaheen (Eagle) Air Exercise is the J-10C. In his opinion the J-10C is very impressive in certain situations. Especially adapted at sneaky attack when there is no AWACS support, even heavy weight fighters is having trouble dealing with it. But there are also shortcomings /problems with the J-10C. And he was very impressed with the advanced avionics and EW of the J-16 and the extremely powerful continuous maneuverability of it.

Omar is PAF 16th squadron leader who is a very experienced and skilled fighter pilot. Also holds the longest tenure of flying the JF-17 in the squadron. He also have a very good understanding of both the Eastern and western fighter jets because he flew western fighter jets including Saudi Arabia's F-15SA and Turkish F-16 in the past.

Omar stated J-10C is a very fearsome opponent. It can trace and track targets with just IRST with out turning on it's own radar and undetected by the opponents. So, J-10C can have a first shoot opportunity at it's opponents. And the J-10C radar is very advanced with it's radar signal reflection much smaller than the F-15SA. If can sneak attack enemy fighters if there were no AWACS support from the other side.

It's vertical climb rate and instant speed change is very good second only to F-16 compared to the same generation single engine fighter jets, better than Mirage-2000 and JF-17. It also equipped with PL-15 and Pl-10 and helmet mount target system that it can lock on target at a very exaggerated angle and shoot it's enemy down. It's instantaneous turn rate is also very good.

He think J-10C can improve on is need more hard-points for BVR AAM. Range is also a problem without conformal fuel tanks, not very good sustained turn rate. if J-10C can't kill it's opponent in the first 30 seconds of the dog fight, then it's a good chance for the opponent to fight back at that

Have to say I'm not sure about the authenticity and information from the video without the original sound from the interview. For all we know the pilot didn't say any of that, the one who make the video can put words in his mouth. But nevertheless, rough translation of the interview.

Video was uploaded on youtube on March-31-2021.

A famous PAF fighter pilot name "Omar" believe the most dangerous opponent from the join PLAAF and PAF Shaheen (Eagle) Air Exercise is the J-10C. In his opinion the J-10C is very impressive in certain situations. Especially adapted at sneaky attack when there is no AWACS support, even heavy weight fighters is having trouble dealing with it. But there are also shortcomings /problems with the J-10C. And he was very impressed with the advanced avionics and EW of the J-16 and the extremely powerful continuous maneuverability of it.

Omar is PAF 16th squadron leader who is a very experienced and skilled fighter pilot. Also holds the longest tenure of flying the JF-17 in the squadron. He also have a very good understanding of both the Eastern and western fighter jets because he flew western fighter jets including Saudi Arabia's F-15SA and Turkish F-16 in the past.

Omar stated J-10C is a very fearsome opponent. It can trace and track targets with just IRST with out turning on it's own radar and undetected by the opponents. So, J-10C can have a first shoot opportunity at it's opponents. And the J-10C radar is very advanced with it's radar signal reflection much smaller than the F-15SA. If can sneak attack enemy fighters if there were no AWACS support from the other side.

It's vertical climb rate and instant speed change is very good second only to F-16 compared to the same generation single engine fighter jets, better than Mirage-2000 and JF-17. It also equipped with PL-15 and Pl-10 and helmet mount target system that it can lock on target at a very exaggerated angle and shoot it's enemy down. It's instantaneous turn rate is also very good.

He think J-10C can improve on is need more hard-points for BVR AAM. Range is also a problem without conformal fuel tanks, not very good sustained turn rate. if J-10C can't kill it's opponent in the first 30 seconds of the dog fight, then it's a good chance for the opponent to fight back at that time.

Agreed to a large extant. But I would doubt the statement about sustained turn rate being inferior. The delta canard layout , coupled with fly by wire addresses that.
If I remember correctly Lavi fighter of Israel had the same profile and it was out performing f16As in sustained turn rates.
About the no. Of bvrs. I think 6 is a big number. Four on dual racks and two on twin chin mounts.
Roll performance would be better than Rafale. The fins below the engine exhaust are there to prevent sliding of the fuselage in maneuvers. F16 had the same problem, so these fins were introduced in f16 .
Regards

 

[araz]

PAF is turning into a formidable force.
Jf17 block 3 ...plus upgrades of block1 and 2 to 3 standard.
F16 block 52
And j10CP

If we can get numbers India won't dare

At least not wothout soiling a lot more dhotis.
A