PAF airpower for ANA?

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Haqqanis are also being targetted... so much for the good talib-bad talib conspiracy.

The question is whether
1- Haqqani group has fled from NW, before or after op?
2- Have they decided to fight with pak army?
3- Has pak army killed any haqqani militants so far?
We are recieving unverified reports that they were allowed to shift towards kurram and Afghanistan before and after announcement of operation.
About gul bahadur, there are also confusing reports, it is said that except ghulam khan and miranshah, rest of his areas will be spared. A local journalist claimed that pak army and gul bahadur came to an understanding due to efforts of malakan and masharan. After the deal, gul bahadur announced that he wont fight pak army.

 

[Viper0011.]

1) Blessing or no blessing, they weren't coughing up the funds, a lot of persuasion had to take place, to speak of mildly. It is pretty obvious you have no clue as to how things function in Pakistan.

2) You are exactly doing that. My point was IF a US politician had assets from ill gotten gains offshore how would that pan out? But you gave a very naive reply.

3) Forget writing down anything, just tell me the loans AAZ's govt took from IMF and where those funds went?

4) Giving up on us- The only sensible thing you have said so far. Thank you.

As to your comment about us being intolerable - another wrong analogy along with your Israel, Iraq and Libya analogies!! Someone who has been exporting terrorism, drugs, counterfeit goods etc there is a limit to how much you can take, we are in this mess because we were more strict earlier. Had we been pragmatic, Pakistan would have been a very different place today. You have the luxury of sitting in the US and talking like a typical arm chair general, we don't!!

1) Yes, true that. Any military pretty much makes a case and has to lobby to get funds. Same is the case in the US. Too bad if you are not liking it, guess what? This is how it is in a democratic system or the top general goes home by leaving his belt and stars at the table, AFTER he salutes the elected Prime Minister or the President. Sorry, democracy sucks for people like you but eventually, you'll learn it.

2) So as far as foreign assets is concerned, you are saying your leaders have hidden assets outside illegally? Wait, how are they hidden and illegal if you know about them? How about you take this to your supreme court, expose it on the media and file a case for treason????

3) Who's AAZ? If this is a reference to the previous government, well, again, why didn't anyone go to the supreme court? Apparently you know about these assets it sounds like. Frankly speaking, corruption is everywhere, whether it be India, China, the US or Pakistan. These guys do make money somehow. But that doesn't mean the country has to stop at a halt and the economy goes into reverse......I think for the first time in decades, prospects for Pakistan from an economic and financial standpoint look much better

4) Precisely my point. You HIT it right on the head. PRAGMATIC.....the EASIEST definition of this is democracy. When you become democratic and learn to accept people's voting rights and the fact that they will chose someone else you don't like, and you wait for 5 years for the next turn, you become pragmatic. As you know trying to bring down the elected government before its constitutional time, or spreading violence isn't going to solve the issue. You lose your selfishness and ego for the betterment of your country and other people. That pragmatic process takes anger and frustration away and makes people learn to live with others who may disagree with them. That then reduces violence, extremism and all kinds of evil from the society. You guys are individuals, take a look at India. Everyone works for India as they want it to become a superpower.....what do you guys want Pakistan to be???

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Oh Bhai sahib

Wazirastan in particular and FATA in general is not the best example of Pakhtun culture.

The refined people of Charsaddah should be held as examples if you must.

But still I urge you not to drag ethnicity and bad history into this.

Malala is not Punjabi, so understand that TTP is not the true Pashtun they are the black mark on the local culture.


My God, how is it possible that a Pashtun would shoot a child and a girl. Their respect for woman and kids was legendary for all to see.

Thank you.

I was taking about nature, you gave entirely different meaning to my post. Remember that there are sinners and killers in every qaum. If you took the meaning from my post, that i am declaring TTP as representative of good pashtuns, then you must be hypoglycemic. Revenge is part of our nature, it is particularly strong in my qaum. Both good and bad pashtuns have strong sense of badal. Both educated and uneducated pashtuns can be motivated by badal. A terrorist can either be a simple fasadi, miscreant or criminal, or a blind fanatic or the revenge seeker who has some scores to settle with pak army or NATO. Learn to know the difference between pashtuns and pashtun-nationalist. Taliban will be a pashtun but he can never be a pashtun nationalist. TTP are not aliens, they are your countrymen from north-west part of pakistan, mostly. Your countryman can be a thief, murderer, rapist, terrorist, dacoit etc

 

[Indus Falcon]

1) Yes, true that. Any military pretty much makes a case and has to lobby to get funds. Same is the case in the US. Too bad if you are not liking it, guess what? This is how it is in a democratic system or the top general goes home by leaving his belt and stars at the table, AFTER he salutes the elected Prime Minister or the President. Sorry, democracy sucks for people like you but eventually, you'll learn it.

2) So as far as foreign assets is concerned, you are saying your leaders have hidden assets outside illegally? Wait, how are they hidden and illegal if you know about them? How about you take this to your supreme court, expose it on the media and file a case for treason????

3) Who's AAZ? If this is a reference to the previous government, well, again, why didn't anyone go to the supreme court? Apparently you know about these assets it sounds like. Frankly speaking, corruption is everywhere, whether it be India, China, the US or Pakistan. These guys do make money somehow. But that doesn't mean the country has to stop at a halt and the economy goes into reverse......I think for the first time in decades, prospects for Pakistan from an economic and financial standpoint look much better

4) Precisely my point. You HIT it right on the head. PRAGMATIC.....the EASIEST definition of this is democracy. When you become democratic and learn to accept people's voting rights and the fact that they will chose someone else you don't like, and you wait for 5 years for the next turn, you become pragmatic. As you know trying to bring down the elected government before its constitutional time, or spreading violence isn't going to solve the issue. You lose your selfishness and ego for the betterment of your country and other people. That pragmatic process takes anger and frustration away and makes people learn to live with others who may disagree with them. That then reduces violence, extremism and all kinds of evil from the society. You guys are individuals, take a look at India. Everyone works for India as they want it to become a superpower.....what do you guys want Pakistan to be???

There is a basic fundamental you don't know about Pakistan - it's never had a free and fair election in it's history!!

 

[FaujHistorian]

I was taking about nature, you gave entirely different meaning to my post. Remember that there are sinners and killers in every qaum. If you took the meaning from my post, that i am declaring TTP as representative of good pashtuns, then you must be hypoglycemic. Revenge is part of our nature, it is particularly strong in my qaum. Both good and bad pashtuns have strong sense of badal. Both educated and uneducated pashtuns can be motivated by badal. A terrorist can either be a simple fasadi, miscreant or criminal, or a blind fanatic or the revenge seeker who has some scores to settle with pak army or NATO. Learn to know the difference between pashtuns and pashtun-nationalist. Taliban will be a pashtun but he can never be a pashtun nationalist. TTP are not aliens, they are your countrymen from north-west part of pakistan, mostly. Your countryman can be a thief, murderer, rapist, terrorist, dacoit etc

Oh yara,

Every man and tribe in Pakistan believe in Badal. Pashtuns do not have exclusive rights.

In fact if you talk to a mafia boss in New York, he will tell you the same things as badal.

So please quit making bombastic statements.

 

[ejaz007]

With NATO going home the ANA is going to lose its biggest tool against insurgency, the precision strikes and air intelligence i.e drones.

Hoping that Ashraf Ghani will seek deeper counterinsurgency cooperation with Pakistan and would prove to be a friend unlike Karzai, we should offer ANA the air cover it won't have nor would be able to build anytime soon.

If Kabul agrees, there can be a 'joint' COIN strategy as per which the Afghan and Pakistani SOF can be operated in coordination against mutual threats, since the insurgency is likely to expand.

PAF's F-16C/D Block52+ fleet carries more fuel in Conformal Fuel Tanks which gives it ~30% more range and increased loiter time. PAF also operates UAV which can loiter for 12 hours.

We face a mutual threat from insurgents and drug runners. If Afghanistan is willing to coop, should we extend per request air strikes for ANA or not? - pros and cons?

Stay civil and discuss.

No. Let Afghans clean their own mess. We should rigorously target TTP and other groups on our side and clear our territory from them. Then seal the border using what ever means.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Oh yara,

Every man and tribe in Pakistan believe in Badal. Pashtuns do not have exclusive rights.

In fact if you talk to a mafia boss in New York, he will tell you the same things as badal.

So please quit making bombastic statements.

Kya bakwas kar rahe ho, khabti aadmi. Didnt i said it clearly that revenge is part of human nature?. If revenge is considered part of culture, then it is more intense and highlighted than the communities who frown upon revenge seeking.
Ziada bakwas kar rahe ho, if you continued on, i would put you in my ignore list. I would inform you then and then dont bother to quote me.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

. What would we do under such circumstances?



Y

What israel is doing in Ghaza!!! unilaterally bomb the shit out of them use chemical weapons if necessary.

 

[Zarvan]

With NATO going home the ANA is going to lose its biggest tool against insurgency, the precision strikes and air intelligence i.e drones.

Hoping that Ashraf Ghani will seek deeper counterinsurgency cooperation with Pakistan and would prove to be a friend unlike Karzai, we should offer ANA the air cover it won't have nor would be able to build anytime soon.

If Kabul agrees, there can be a 'joint' COIN strategy as per which the Afghan and Pakistani SOF can be operated in coordination against mutual threats, since the insurgency is likely to expand.

PAF's F-16C/D Block52+ fleet carries more fuel in Conformal Fuel Tanks which gives it ~30% more range and increased loiter time. PAF also operates UAV which can loiter for 12 hours.

We face a mutual threat from insurgents and drug runners. If Afghanistan is willing to coop, should we extend per request air strikes for ANA or not? - pros and cons?

Stay civil and discuss.

Seriously Sir I never expected this from you Pakistan will never go against Afghan Taliban even in NW not only the made sure that Haqqanis reach a safe point and also those who broke up with TTP than they went in and attacked you think they would provide any support to ANA which will not stand for even few months the moment USA leaves

 

[Umair Nawaz]

What if whats going on in Helmand keeps spreading? - If Afghan Taliban, grow strong and succeed in something like ISIS has been able to do, the TTP is going to be rejuvenated.

well c that when that happens.....right now Taliban must be supported against this persian gov. Only Pak friendly gov should be given the hot seat. Rest can all go to hell.

 

[HAIDER]

Air power and balloon uav should be used for border security and preemptive strike inside Afghan territory ....
Pak started this operation , because they don t want ISIL type brain develop along Pak Afghan border. Because lots of TTP and foreign elements found in the front columns of ISIL

 

[Viper0011.]

There is a basic fundamental you don't know about Pakistan - it's never had a free and fair election in it's history!!

Says who? The person who has a different political agenda and is having a hard time in believing that oh sh*it, we actually LOST!!! or the International Body, the Political System within Pakistan and the Supreme Court???? If you think ALL of these institutions local and foreign are corrupted and have been "paid" then you and your leaders spreading this need a shot of Haldol once a month in your triceps. That will cure the hallucinations and paranoia!
Once someone told me and I quote "There is limits to how far bullshi*t can go. At some point, someone will smell the shi*t and will separate the bull from it". I agree with this person's quote after reading these "we didn't win so the elections were rigged and the supreme court, God and everyone else was paid to lie" comments.
Learn to accept defeat and it'll only make you, your country and your political system stronger. Now its time to wait till you vote again and you vote for the one you like, whether they win or not, its all a part of the democratic process.

I fully support Israel, because Hamas has provoked them many months. At least TTP kill someone but hamas fire useless rockets just for reaction. In fact i have seen Palestinians on this forum wishing for more deaths in hands of Israel for PR reasons.

Very hard to feel sorry for Palestine. And remember we and Israel have many things in common.

I know this is off topic but Palestinian leadership is the worst I've ever seen, Hamas is the worse terrorist or jihadi organization next to Alqaeda. These guys are provoking a much stronger enemy from civilian strongholds, when they bomb that are, they cry citizen's dead. There are videos show rockets being launched at Israel from dense populated areas. If these morons are that brave, why hide behind civilians? Why not go and face the Israeli army out in the open?? The Israeli's detect the fire and bombs that area, of course people will get killed as its a civilian controlled area. The local gov't should make sure no rockets are able to be fired from these public places.

 

[Kabira]

Says who?

I know this is off topic but Palestinian leadership is the worst I've ever seen, Hamas is the worse terrorist or jihadi organization next to Alqaeda. These guys are provoking a much stronger enemy from civilian strongholds, when they bomb that are, they cry citizen's dead. There are videos show rockets being launched at Israel from dense populated areas. If these morons are that brave, why hide behind civilians? Why not go and face the Israeli army out in the open?? The Israeli's detect the fire and bombs that area, of course people will get killed as its a civilian controlled area. The local gov't should make sure no rockets are able to be fired from these public places.

Even Palestinians admit they are doing it for propaganda reasons, there is lot of hate against Israel in the world. I am not saying what Israel does is right, especially by taking even more land from Palestine. But their crimes are over rated IMO for just being Israel and jews. Other countries get away with lot worst.

 

[Armstrong]

Wouldn't we be back to 1995?

'95 is inevitable.....the issue is whether we're going to let the mistakes of the past repeate themselves ?

I say cut our losses & concentrate on confining Afghans to Afghanistan !

 

[OrionHunter]

With NATO going home the ANA is going to lose its biggest tool against insurgency, the precision strikes and air intelligence i.e drones.

Hoping that Ashraf Ghani will seek deeper counterinsurgency cooperation with Pakistan and would prove to be a friend unlike Karzai, we should offer ANA the air cover it won't have nor would be able to build anytime soon.

If Kabul agrees, there can be a 'joint' COIN strategy as per which the Afghan and Pakistani SOF can be operated in coordination against mutual threats, since the insurgency is likely to expand.

PAF's F-16C/D Block52+ fleet carries more fuel in Conformal Fuel Tanks which gives it ~30% more range and increased loiter time. PAF also operates UAV which can loiter for 12 hours.

We face a mutual threat from insurgents and drug runners. If Afghanistan is willing to coop, should we extend per request air strikes for ANA or not? - pros and cons?

Stay civil and discuss.

Joint Pak-Afghan COIN ops is par for course. But there's a fundamental dichotomy. And that is: Who are the terrorists? The Afghan Taliban operating in Afghanistan are terrorists where the Afghan government and ANA is concerned. But not so for Pakistan for whom the Pakistan Taliban (TTP) are the terrorists, and not the 'friendly' or 'good' Afghan Taliban!

So, can you clarify who the targets for the PAF would be?