PAF airpower for ANA?

[qamar1990]

Are we forgetting Air lift of Konduz now?

breaking news
nasa discovered life on mars as well,
whats next? you going to blame us for the insurgencies in india as well?

 

[Imran Khan]

its not enough ? i think we learn a lesson from history

 

[Indus Falcon]

I don't understand why havn't you mine the border and or seal it with a fence at least? Civilians will know not to cross the fence as its mined. The terrorist will try to cross it and that's when they'll get killed.
The civilian government has issued the order and that's why you see the operation. If the military was THAT independent, it would've happened a long time ago. Military again in power means Pakistan will go back to 80's and probably will never become a good strong economy. I can pretty much assure you of that much and the military knows it too. Even in the US, our military leaders would do everything with firepower but they have to get orders from the civilian commander-in-chief. That's where the buck stops, a civilian premier.

We are in the process of mining it. To effectively seal it we need more funds. Secondly the mountainous areas are the Achilles heel. Not that easy.

Secondly, I'm not suggesting a military take over, what I am suggesting is the military does the same like it did for this operation and the Jordanian F16's. Put it's foot down, ask the civilian govt to pull up it's pants / shalwar, and do something for a change!!! How long are we going to turn a blind eye to a serious crisis like this?

You comparing the US to Pakistan doesn't work, in our neck of the woods the politicians are extra ordinarily corrupt. You tell me what you guys do with a politician who had more assets outside the US, than in it?

Thirdly, not that I'm in favor of military rule, but you can't deny the economy was in a much better shape under military rule.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Let the Afghans do what they do, if they require some minor assistance, we should oblige. No need to stick our paddle in again, we should learn from out past, the way to deal with an unstable Afghanistan is not to add a third unstable element of Pakistani backing.

Allow them to put their house in order, while we do ours, if 10 years down the line, after we've watched closely what develops, then we can decide our approach. It's not wise to bet on any approach too heavy handedly before we see what happens there after Western focus shifts.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Let the Afghans do what they do, if they require some minor assistance, we should oblige. No need to stick our paddle in again, we should learn from out past, the way to deal with an unstable Afghanistan is not to add a third unstable element of Pakistani backing.

Allow them to put their house in order, while we do ours, if 10 years down the line, after we've watched closely what develops, then we can decide our approach. It's not wise to bet on any approach too heavy handedly before we see what happens there after Western focus shifts.

PA already knows whats going to happen once the west leaves Afghanistan. The current operation is part of that puzzle.

You can't quote me on this!!

 

[Viper0011.]

Secondly, I'm not suggesting a military take over, what I am suggesting is the military does the same like it did for this operation and the Jordanian F16's. Put it's foot down, ask the civilian govt to pull up it's pants / shalwar, and do something for a change!!! How long are we going to turn a blind eye to a serious crisis like this?

You comparing the US to Pakistan doesn't work, in our neck of the woods the politicians are extra ordinarily corrupt. You tell me what you guys do with a politician who had more assets outside the US, than in it?

Thirdly, not that I'm in favor of military rule, but you can't deny the economy was in a much better shape under military rule.

1) Do you really think the military didn't have blessing from the civilian government or involvement from to purchase a state to state fighter jet deal? You don't think the US State Department was involved in it too along with Pentagon and others? And why do you think the deal went through......partly BECAUSE of a democratic system getting strengthened in Pakistan. Its naive to think the military put its pants on and went on a state to state shopping spree. Other countries don't care and don't want to deal with any generals when it comes to state to state deals. It's the government in place that allows for that to happen.
People with X-military or who's family served in the military in Pakistan don't think that's the case.

2) I am not doing any comparisons that are wrong actually. There are a TON of US politicians that get lobby money and all and many have assets outside the US. The US laws allow for it as long as you list them and pay taxes right.

3) Economy was in a "much" better shape....when? Oh wait, the 11 Billion sent for the people was being wasted by a few elected ones and their favorites were running contracts. That's called economy was much stronger? With the exception of shipping and transportation industry (Thanks to the US military), what else happened? Let's write down a list of ALL BIG projects that the generals did and all big projects that the civilian government has undertaken since it started. I'll let the facts speak.
At the end, I am giving up on you guys. It seems as you guys have no care for democracy and don't even understand democratic values. That's why your culture is too intolerant, if you don't like someone, go kill him or turn violent, etc, etc.
That's why, you need two-three cycles of uninterrupted civilian governments finishing up their cycles. At the end, you'll understand the difference of dictatorship vs. civilian governments.

 

[Indus Falcon]

1) Do you really think the military didn't have blessing from the civilian government or involvement from to purchase a state to state fighter jet deal? You don't think the US State Department was involved in it too along with Pentagon and others? And why do you think the deal went through......partly BECAUSE of a democratic system getting strengthened in Pakistan. Its naive to think the military put its pants on and went on a state to state shopping spree. Other countries don't care and don't want to deal with any generals when it comes to state to state deals. It's the government in place that allows for that to happen.
People with X-military or who's family served in the military in Pakistan don't think that's the case.

2) I am not doing any comparisons that are wrong actually. There are a TON of US politicians that get lobby money and all and many have assets outside the US. The US laws allow for it as long as you list them and pay taxes right.

3) Economy was in a "much" better shape....when? Oh wait, the 11 Billion sent for the people was being wasted by a few elected ones and their favorites were running contracts. That's called economy was much stronger? With the exception of shipping and transportation industry (Thanks to the US military), what else happened? Let's write down a list of ALL BIG projects that the generals did and all big projects that the civilian government has undertaken since it started. I'll let the facts speak.
At the end, I am giving up on you guys. It seems as you guys have no care for democracy and don't even understand democratic values. That's why your culture is too intolerant, if you don't like someone, go kill him or turn violent, etc, etc.
That's why, you need two-three cycles of uninterrupted civilian governments finishing up their cycles. At the end, you'll understand the difference of dictatorship vs. civilian governments.

1) Blessing or no blessing, they weren't coughing up the funds, a lot of persuasion had to take place, to speak of mildly. It is pretty obvious you have no clue as to how things function in Pakistan.

2) You are exactly doing that. My point was IF a US politician had assets from ill gotten gains offshore how would that pan out? But you gave a very naive reply.

3) Forget writing down anything, just tell me the loans AAZ's govt took from IMF and where those funds went?

4) Giving up on us- The only sensible thing you have said so far. Thank you.

As to your comment about us being intolerable - another wrong analogy along with your Israel, Iraq and Libya analogies!! Someone who has been exporting terrorism, drugs, counterfeit goods etc there is a limit to how much you can take, we are in this mess because we were more strict earlier. Had we been pragmatic, Pakistan would have been a very different place today. You have the luxury of sitting in the US and talking like a typical arm chair general, we don't!!

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I find this term "precision strikes" very offensive. Both pak army and ANA shouldnt use air strikes on their own people, it is against geneva convention.

 

[Indus Falcon]

I find this term "precision strikes" very offensive. Both pak army and ANA shouldnt use air strikes on their own people, it is against geneva convention.

PAF does not use it against it's own people, it uses it against foreign funded terrorists. Didn't the millions of foreign currency recovered in the ongoing operation give you a clue?

 

[Kabira]

I find this term "precision strikes" very offensive. Both pak army and ANA shouldnt use air strikes on their own people, it is against geneva convention.

Against terrorists its fair game.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Agreed.

But if attacks from Kunr continue, there will be strong voices in Pakistan to taken action.

obviously we will also launch cross country operations to neutralize. But Armstrong is right. Let these crack heads kill eachother we just need to make sure our borders are properly mined, fenced and protected by armed forces.

A bunch of A-29s and old mi-35s .. the offensive capability of afghan airforce.. in future.

and why should we care? let that be good for them with lots of goodluck from our side.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Unfortunately, be it civil or military, we don't have the luxury of leaders who have the guts to do that. The current COAS has so far proved himself to be quite capable in putting the impotent civilian leadership in its place. Afghanistan will be the acid test that will define his tenure.

The new army chief is not capable, he is nalaiq and cruel person. He is ready to bomb some villages in bajaur in reteliation of attack from across the border, even though a simple searching of suspected houses could have served the purpose. This nalaiq general is much like tikka khan, where is counter-insurgency tactics? Winning of hearts and minds?. Knee jerk reaction to taliban attacks aur "eintt sey eintt baja dena" only works for some time. It has adverse affects in long term. In our part of world, people remember the insults and wait even for decades for right oppurtunity to take revenge. Mix this with an ideology and a gurrella group with unconventional tactics, who can easily go into hibernation and create trouble at some other time.

Against terrorists its fair game.

Israel use the same logic, against hamas 'terrorists'

 

[Kabira]

The new army chief is not capable, he is nalaiq and cruel person. He is ready to bomb some villages in bajaur in reteliation of attack from across the border, even though a simple searching of suspected houses could have served the purpose. This nalaiq general is much like tikka khan, where is counter-insurgency tactics? Winning of hearts and minds?. Knee jerk reaction to taliban attacks aur "eintt sey eintt baja dena" only works for some time. It has adverse affects in long term. In our part of world, people remember the insults and wait even for decades for right oppurtunity to take revenge. Mix this with an ideology and a gurrella group with unconventional tactics, who can easily go into hibernation and create trouble at some other time.

Any reason for no protest against operation?

 

[FaujHistorian]

The new army chief is not capable, he is nalaiq and cruel person. He is ready to bomb some villages in bajaur in reteliation of attack from across the border, even though a simple searching of suspected houses could have served the purpose. This nalaiq general is much like tikka khan, where is counter-insurgency tactics? Winning of hearts and minds?. Knee jerk reaction to taliban attacks aur "eintt sey eintt baja dena" only works for some time. It has adverse affects in long term. In our part of world, people remember the insults and wait even for decades for right oppurtunity to take revenge. Mix this with an ideology and a gurrella group with unconventional tactics, who can easily go into hibernation and create trouble at some other time.

Oh Bhai sahib

Wazirastan in particular and FATA in general is not the best example of Pakhtun culture.

The refined people of Charsaddah should be held as examples if you must.

But still I urge you not to drag ethnicity and bad history into this.

Malala is not Punjabi, so understand that TTP is not the true Pashtun they are the black mark on the local culture.


My God, how is it possible that a Pashtun would shoot a child and a girl. Their respect for woman and kids was legendary for all to see.

Thank you.

 

[Kabira]

Israel use the same logic, against hamas 'terrorists'

I fully support Israel, because Hamas has provoked them many months. At least TTP kill someone but hamas fire useless rockets just for reaction. In fact i have seen Palestinians on this forum wishing for more deaths in hands of Israel for PR reasons.

Very hard to feel sorry for Palestine. And remember we and Israel have many things in common.