Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[VEVAK]

The sky is blue, the earth is round, rain is wet etc.



Read up a bit on cold war arms control treaties in relation to ballistic missiles and then come and tell me how much they are/aren't related to nuclear weapons.



Most of those are industrial targets. I don't think you are understanding the concept of escalation dominance.



Fairness and setting examples are not important here. If a country is forced into a war when it cannot outright capitulate the enemy and make them surrender everything (as in actually invade that country), the objective is to end the war as quickly as possible, paying the least material, economic and political costs and taking the least risk. You don't go escalating a war you wish never happened in the first place.



Escalation dominance is a strategic concept. It is not limited to minor "border skirmishes". Its like if some kid calls you gay and you knock him out cold. Whoops, his dad is Anthony Joshua. What the hell are you gonna do now? Probably wish you'd just ignored him, he's a f*cking kid after all.

Same case with Saudi. They bomb an airbase? Fine, bomb their airbase back. Sink a warship? Sink 1 or 2 of there's back. They started it, just retaliating in equal measure is embarrassing enough for them to want to cut their losses.



I've already said. There is no fantasy situation where we can just missile the shit out of Saudi Arabia and expect there to be no consequences. There is no win-win-win situation.

You don't need to force the Saudis to back down by escalating. That is too risky. You work diplomatically to encourage the UN to impose a ceasefire, you talk big to deter an enemy escalation, and you milk the war for all it is worth PR wise.

Think about why the Saudis would start a war in the first place. Would it be an escalation of a non-direct conflict into a direct conflict? Would it be an attempt to reduce Iranian influence? Or damage Iranian prestige? Pick and choose. Either of these objectives are relatively easy to dismantle, sabotage, and deny. Without escalation.

Certainly it wouldn't be a land grab, or an attempt at direct invasion.

.

​

The ONLY reason the U.S. didn't take military action against Iranian Nuclear facilities is because THEY KNEW with a high degree of certainty that Iran wouldn't site back and think about escalation and would respond harshly!! So it's an absurd theory & it's a theory that doesn't conform to how Iran's military is structured! ​

Your escalation scenario with only a proportionate response is what the U.S. HOPED would be Iran's response!!! It's NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! Not with the U.S. and NOT with Saudi Arabia!

And here is why:

1.Iran doesn't have a strong conventional Air Power advanced enough to go with the tit for tat tactics your suggesting! And Iranian missiles would need to be fired in such numbers that would overwhelm any Air Defense system and they would need to hurt & destroying some concrete at an airbase without taking out any air assets doesn't hurt!

2.Saudi's keep their fighters in heavily fortified bunkers & if they were to plan an attack on Iran they would move most of their assets to bases out of the range of Iranian precision guided ballistic missiles!
I bet you haven't seen a lot of sat images of Saudi Air Force bases & fighter bunkers! Destroying some cement & concrete at an empty Air Base would only embolden the Saudi's to continue down that path....

3.Over 70% of Iran's exports go through the Persian Gulf and without an Advanced conventional Air Force the Saudi's can maintain full Air Superiority over the Persian Gulf & Iran destroying some concrete at a few Saudi Airbases wouldn't change that! Also, Saudi Naval ports are mostly in the Red Sea not in the Persian Gulf so Iran's response would need to hurt the Saudi's financially for them to get the message!

4.Saudi's produce more Oil and have more money than Iran & have international ports outside the Persian Gulf & can maintain a tit for tat response for much longer periods. Making it a good choice for them if Iran adheres to those kind of tactics but clearly an illogical choice for Iran!

5.This idea you have in your head that Saudi Air Force is going to just fly past major Iranian Naval port & bases and only target the Air Force is NOTHING but a fictional example!

Yes if the Saudi's hit an Iranian Frigate at sea you can reciprocate in kind, if the Saudi's board an Iranian cargo ship you can again respond in kind without a full scales war & then go to the UN.... but bombing an Iranian Air Force base is a completely different story! You can't bomb someone's Air Force base and site back and claim that you never intended to start a war!

Major Air Force bases in the South are:
Omediah Air Base (Khomaini port)
Busher Air Base
Bandar Abbas Air Base
Chah Bahar Air Base
All of which are near and close to Major Iranian Ports, Naval bases, powerplants,... so if any of those bases are hit Iran can't be conservative and will have to automatically assume that they intended to hit the ports & other assets but failed...

If the Saudi's bomb an Iranian Air Force base it would be absurd to expect Iran to limit it's self to Saudi Air Force bases! War's will never be fair or humane!

So if ANY major Iranian Military base is attack, Iran will have to send a clear message & the message has to be loud and clear and it would need to hurt & then Iran goes to the UN and makes it clear that Iran's response to any further attack on Iranian territory will be met with a disproportionate & decisive response!

Firing 100's of missiles to destroy some concrete at a Saudi Air Base that more likely than not was emptied of any aircraft of worth prior to the start of the conflict would be stupid and absurd!

 

[VEVAK]

Why escalate?

It is up to the aggressor to complete their objectives. All we have to do is to deny them from achieving those objectives. In any situation, they aggressor wants to make it look like the defender lost. Deny that, and you've won the war, simply by not losing.

Saudi are not a superpower. They aren't going to invade our territory (at the very least, not our mainland). So the extent of their action would be small. But we aren't a superpower either. All we need to do is not lose, and they've lost the war.

I think you and VEVAK are making the same mistake Iran made in 1982. In 1982, Iran had already kicked the Iraqis out of Iran. Iraq was begging for a ceasefire. At this stage, Iran should have accepted it. Iran didn't, everyone flooded Saddam with arms and cash, and the war dragged on for another 6 years. I guarantee you, your decisions would have the same result.

Why escalate? Easy, History!

1.If Iranian military leaders thought like you, the U.S. would have attacked Iran and carried out military strikes against Iran on a yearly bases in the past decade!

2.U.S. bombed Iraq between 1992-2002 on a yearly bases and I would say the main reason these attacks never ended and continued until they led to an easy invasion in 2003 was because Iraq couldn't or wouldn't escalate!

3.In WW2 when the Japanese hit Purl Harbor, what did the U.S. do? They responded harshly and disproportionately which led to a quick end to the war!

4.Responding in kind especially against a country that has far more money than you do is NOT a logical response! Iran will have to go after Saudi money and wasting large number of missiles on Saudi Air Bases to destroy some concrete that will be rebuilt within a few months is really NOT a logical response!

Also, the assumption that the Saudi's would choose an Iranian Air Base to hit is purely a fictional example with no logic behind it because the Saudi's don't need to hit Iranian Air Bases to maintain Air Superiority over the Persian Gulf & they wouldn't put their fighters at risk against Iranian Air Defense just to hit an Iranian Air Base in the south just so they feel better... If anything, their main target would be Bandar Abbas Naval Base!

In terms of Media propaganda I don't see how anyone (Regular Joe's) would see or treat an attack on an Iranian Naval Base or a Missile Base any differently than an attack on an Iranian Air Force base so more likely than not Bandar Abbas would be the main target and Iran houses over 70% of it's blue water capability at that base at any given time!
And no regular Joe is going to say" O' attacking Iran's Air Force is not really a declaration of full scale war but attacking Iranian Naval base well that's just over the line and unacceptable"
For propaganda purposes they are the same thing but in terms of actual military capability it's like night and day!

So how do you expect Iran to act if overnight ~50% of it's blue water capability is taken out?

As for the propaganda Pro-Saudi propaganda & western media will make the attack out to be a limited attack on a single Iranian Naval Base regardless of Iran's response!

Trust me Iran's response is NOT going to be proportionate or limited to Saudi Air Force and Naval bases even if they only hit an Air Base!!

And you wanna talk about mistakes of the Iran-Iraq war before the War started the Iraqi's had massed their troops on Iranian boarders! If Iranian leadership had drawn a line in the sand and said we will consider any further incursion as a full scale war & carried out a massive strike against Iraqi targets before the war started more likely than NOT Saddam would have realized that he miscalculated and would have never attempted the invasion in the 1st place!
So you say we could have ended the war in 1982, my response to that would be we could have ended the war in 1980 before it even began if Iranian leaders were more decisive & would have ordered the Air Force to carry out a major attack instead of allowing Saddam to mass troops on the boarder with continued boarder skirmishes!

 

[AmirPatriot]

The ONLY reason the U.S. didn't take military action against Iranian Nuclear facilities is because THEY KNEW with a high degree of certainty that Iran wouldn't site back and think about escalation and would respond harshly!! So it's an absurd theory & it's a theory that doesn't conform to how Iran's military is structured! ​

Your escalation scenario with only a proportionate response is what the U.S. HOPED would be Iran's response!!! It's NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! Not with the U.S. and NOT with Saudi Arabia!

And here is why:

1.Iran doesn't have a strong conventional Air Power advanced enough to go with the tit for tat tactics your suggesting! And Iranian missiles would need to be fired in such numbers that would overwhelm any Air Defense system and they would need to hurt & destroying some concrete at an airbase without taking out any air assets doesn't hurt!

2.Saudi's keep their fighters in heavily fortified bunkers & if they were to plan an attack on Iran they would move most of their assets to bases out of the range of Iranian precision guided ballistic missiles!
I bet you haven't seen a lot of sat images of Saudi Air Force bases & fighter bunkers! Destroying some cement & concrete at an empty Air Base would only embolden the Saudi's to continue down that path....

3.Over 70% of Iran's exports go through the Persian Gulf and without an Advanced conventional Air Force the Saudi's can maintain full Air Superiority over the Persian Gulf & Iran destroying some concrete at a few Saudi Airbases wouldn't change that! Also, Saudi Naval ports are mostly in the Red Sea not in the Persian Gulf so Iran's response would need to hurt the Saudi's financially for them to get the message!

4.Saudi's produce more Oil and have more money than Iran & have international ports outside the Persian Gulf & can maintain a tit for tat response for much longer periods. Making it a good choice for them if Iran adheres to those kind of tactics but clearly an illogical choice for Iran!

5.This idea you have in your head that Saudi Air Force is going to just fly past major Iranian Naval port & bases and only target the Air Force is NOTHING but a fictional example!

Yes if the Saudi's hit an Iranian Frigate at sea you can reciprocate in kind, if the Saudi's board an Iranian cargo ship you can again respond in kind without a full scales war & then go to the UN.... but bombing an Iranian Air Force base is a completely different story! You can't bomb someone's Air Force base and site back and claim that you never intended to start a war!

Major Air Force bases in the South are:
Omediah Air Base (Khomaini port)
Busher Air Base
Bandar Abbas Air Base
Chah Bahar Air Base
All of which are near and close to Major Iranian Ports, Naval bases, powerplants,... so if any of those bases are hit Iran can't be conservative and will have to automatically assume that they intended to hit the ports & other assets but failed...

If the Saudi's bomb an Iranian Air Force base it would be absurd to expect Iran to limit it's self to Saudi Air Force bases! War's will never be fair or humane!

So if ANY major Iranian Military base is attack, Iran will have to send a clear message & the message has to be loud and clear and it would need to hurt & then Iran goes to the UN and makes it clear that Iran's response to any further attack on Iranian territory will be met with a disproportionate & decisive response!

Firing 100's of missiles to destroy some concrete at a Saudi Air Base that more likely than not was emptied of any aircraft of worth prior to the start of the conflict would be stupid and absurd!

Why escalate? Easy, History!

1.If Iranian military leaders thought like you, the U.S. would have attacked Iran and carried out military strikes against Iran on a yearly bases in the past decade!

2.U.S. bombed Iraq between 1992-2002 on a yearly bases and I would say the main reason these attacks never ended and continued until they led to an easy invasion in 2003 was because Iraq couldn't or wouldn't escalate!

3.In WW2 when the Japanese hit Purl Harbor, what did the U.S. do? They responded harshly and disproportionately which led to a quick end to the war!

4.Responding in kind especially against a country that has far more money than you do is NOT a logical response! Iran will have to go after Saudi money and wasting large number of missiles on Saudi Air Bases to destroy some concrete that will be rebuilt within a few months is really NOT a logical response!

Also, the assumption that the Saudi's would choose an Iranian Air Base to hit is purely a fictional example with no logic behind it because the Saudi's don't need to hit Iranian Air Bases to maintain Air Superiority over the Persian Gulf & they wouldn't put their fighters at risk against Iranian Air Defense just to hit an Iranian Air Base in the south just so they feel better... If anything, their main target would be Bandar Abbas Naval Base!

In terms of Media propaganda I don't see how anyone (Regular Joe's) would see or treat an attack on an Iranian Naval Base or a Missile Base any differently than an attack on an Iranian Air Force base so more likely than not Bandar Abbas would be the main target and Iran houses over 70% of it's blue water capability at that base at any given time!
And no regular Joe is going to say" O' attacking Iran's Air Force is not really a declaration of full scale war but attacking Iranian Naval base well that's just over the line and unacceptable"
For propaganda purposes they are the same thing but in terms of actual military capability it's like night and day!

So how do you expect Iran to act if overnight ~50% of it's blue water capability is taken out?

As for the propaganda Pro-Saudi propaganda & western media will make the attack out to be a limited attack on a single Iranian Naval Base regardless of Iran's response!

Trust me Iran's response is NOT going to be proportionate or limited to Saudi Air Force and Naval bases even if they only hit an Air Base!!

And you wanna talk about mistakes of the Iran-Iraq war before the War started the Iraqi's had massed their troops on Iranian boarders! If Iranian leadership had drawn a line in the sand and said we will consider any further incursion as a full scale war & carried out a massive strike against Iraqi targets before the war started more likely than NOT Saddam would have realized that he miscalculated and would have never attempted the invasion in the 1st place!
So you say we could have ended the war in 1982, my response to that would be we could have ended the war in 1980 before it even began if Iranian leaders were more decisive & would have ordered the Air Force to carry out a major attack instead of allowing Saddam to mass troops on the boarder with continued boarder skirmishes!

Both your posts are full of irrelevant examples, incorrect assumptions, and poor estimation of the hard and soft power of both sides. Not to mention diverting the scenario (from an Iran-Saudi war to an Iran-US war).

I cannot read in full - much less hold a discussion about - such posts.

 

[N_Al40]

 

[skyshadow]

Unsuccessful and successful missile tests in Iran
این ویدئو هم درد داره هم خوشحالی ولی در نهایت خوشحالی داره و پیامی هم داره برای کسایی که میگن صنعت موشکی ما کاملا کپی برداری از کره شمالی هست . اینطوری نیست دانشمندان ایرانی با جون و دل سعی و تلاش کردن تا به اینجا رسیدیم.

 

[VEVAK]

Both your posts are full of irrelevant examples, incorrect assumptions, and poor estimation of the hard and soft power of both sides. Not to mention diverting the scenario (from an Iran-Saudi war to an Iran-US war).

I cannot read in full - much less hold a discussion about - such posts.

Ok let me make it simple & easy for you so you can understand!

This is one of the main locations where the Saudi's keep the backbone of their Air Force
It is located 1,400 km from Iran with over 100 fortified Aircraft bunkers & various types of SAM systems...

This is what the bunkers look like up close

Iranian Cruise Missiles fired from Iranian territory WILL NEVER be able to destroy any fighters at this base because they'll have plenty of time to detect and scramble their Air Force
Even firing 500 MRBM will not ensure that you would be able to take out even 50 Saudi Fighters and most of the damages will be superficial mostly concreate, cement, asphalt,... that can be repaired in a matter of months but at the same time Iran can't replace 500 +1,400km MRBM in a matter of months which means 500 MRBM to take out 50 fighter jets even if you could grantee that 50 of their fighter will be taken out is NOT a logical use of your assets!

So NO Iran can't afford to go tit for tat against Saudi Air Force Bases

The Saudi can easily afford to take off from this base with 50 F-15E, land at a small base near the Persian Gulf to refuel, takeoff, refuel again in the Air and go after Iranian targets in the South of Iran BUT Iran can't afford to fire 500 MRBM at a Saudi Air Base it is really a no brainer it is surprising that you can't comprehend that!

Iran will have to go after Saudi oil and infrastructure & high value targets that aren't so easily replaceable & it's as simple as that!

 

[raptor22]

Ok let me make it simple & easy for you so you can understand!

This is one of the main locations where the Saudi's keep the backbone of their Air Force
It is located 1,400 km from Iran with over 100 fortified Aircraft bunkers & various types of SAM systems...
View attachment 439783



This is what the bunkers look like up close
View attachment 439784

View attachment 439785



Iranian Cruise Missiles fired from Iranian territory WILL NEVER be able to destroy any fighters at this base because they'll have plenty of time to detect and scramble their Air Force
Even firing 500 MRBM will not ensure that you would be able to take out even 50 Saudi Fighters and most of the damages will be superficial mostly concreate, cement, asphalt,... that can be repaired in a matter of months but at the same time Iran can't replace 500 +1,400km MRBM in a matter of months which means 500 MRBM to take out 50 fighter jets even if you could grantee that 50 of their fighter will be taken out is NOT a logical use of your assets!

So NO Iran can't afford to go tit for tat against Saudi Air Force Bases

The Saudi can easily afford to take off from this base with 50 F-15E, land at a small base near the Persian Gulf to refuel, takeoff, refuel again in the Air and go after Iranian targets in the South of Iran BUT Iran can't afford to fire 500 MRBM at a Saudi Air Base it is really a no brainer it is surprising that you can't comprehend that!

Iran will have to go after Saudi oil and infrastructure & high value targets that aren't so easily replaceable & it's as simple as that!

Surly these airports have radars, runways, fuel farms and other places that could be targeted. I think if we could take out these facilities not necessary the bunkers we could easily paralyzed their air force or at least harmless for a while in order to immune our airspace and also Persian Gulf then we will have time for political pressure and other stuff.
But what threats Saudis could pose next to the air force?

 

[AmirPatriot]

This is one of the main locations

Which airbase? Location, name etc. please.

Iranian Cruise Missiles fired from Iranian territory WILL NEVER be able to destroy any fighters at this base because they'll have plenty of time to detect and scramble their Air Force

One of the great advantages of cruise missiles over ballistic missiles and aircraft is that they fly very low and therefore are difficult to detect.

Even firing 500 MRBM will not ensure that you would be able to take out even 50 Saudi Fighters and most of the damages will be superficial mostly concreate, cement, asphalt,... that can be repaired in a matter of months but at the same time Iran can't replace 500 +1,400km MRBM in a matter of months which means 500 MRBM to take out 50 fighter jets even if you could grantee that 50 of their fighter will be taken out is NOT a logical use of your assets!

Precise BMs can punch through shelters. But I prefer grounding their air force first by taking out their runways (even if the damage is temporary, 24 hours), followed immediately by tactical aircraft dropping 2000 lb PGMs or even bunker busters on those hardened shelters.

 

[ashool]

Surly these airports have radars, runways, fuel farms and other places that could be targeted. I think if we could take out these facilities not necessary the bunkers we could easily paralyzed their air force or at least harmless for a while in order to immune our airspace and also Persian Gulf then we will have time for political pressure and other stuff.
But what threats Saudis could pose next to the air force?

شما چند سالته و تو چند تا جنگ حضور داشتی می شه لطفا اینها را برای من بی تجربه جنگ ندیده روشن کنی و یا تو کدام دانشکده نظامی تا چه مقطعی تحصیلات دارید
ممنون میشم من روشن کنید
نظرات شما بسیار کار امد هستنننننننننننننن

ببخشید منظورم vivak بود

Ok let me make it simple & easy for you so you can understand!

This is one of the main locations where the Saudi's keep the backbone of their Air Force
It is located 1,400 km from Iran with over 100 fortified Aircraft bunkers & various types of SAM systems...
View attachment 439783



This is what the bunkers look like up close
View attachment 439784

View attachment 439785



Iranian Cruise Missiles fired from Iranian territory WILL NEVER be able to destroy any fighters at this base because they'll have plenty of time to detect and scramble their Air Force
Even firing 500 MRBM will not ensure that you would be able to take out even 50 Saudi Fighters and most of the damages will be superficial mostly concreate, cement, asphalt,... that can be repaired in a matter of months but at the same time Iran can't replace 500 +1,400km MRBM in a matter of months which means 500 MRBM to take out 50 fighter jets even if you could grantee that 50 of their fighter will be taken out is NOT a logical use of your assets!

So NO Iran can't afford to go tit for tat against Saudi Air Force Bases

The Saudi can easily afford to take off from this base with 50 F-15E, land at a small base near the Persian Gulf to refuel, takeoff, refuel again in the Air and go after Iranian targets in the South of Iran BUT Iran can't afford to fire 500 MRBM at a Saudi Air Base it is really a no brainer it is surprising that you can't comprehend that!

Iran will have to go after Saudi oil and infrastructure & high value targets that aren't so easily replaceable & it's as simple as that!

شما چند سالته و تو چند تا جنگ حضور داشتی می شه لطفا اینها را برای من بی تجربه جنگ ندیده روشن کنی و یا تو کدام دانشکده نظامی تا چه مقطعی تحصیلات دارید
ممنون میشم من روشن کنید
نظرات شما بسیار کار امد هستنننننننننننننن

excuse me i write parsi but i want to say it in my language

 

[VEVAK]

Surly these airports have radars, runways, fuel farms and other places that could be targeted. I think if we could take out these facilities not necessary the bunkers we could easily paralyzed their air force or at least harmless for a while in order to immune our airspace and also Persian Gulf then we will have time for political pressure and other stuff.
But what threats Saudis could pose next to the air force?

Amir was saying that if the Saudi's take out an Iranian Air Force base & an Iranian warship we shouldn't escalate & should only respond in kind by taking out a Saudi warship & a Saudi Air Force base and then push for peace talks & I was explaining to him how impractical that truly is!

If the Saudi's take out an Iranian Air Force base using 20 F-15's & an Iranian warship in the gulf of Aden our response will need to be more in the lines of
Taking out a major Saudi refinery(within 800km, 10Missiles), an Oil facility(within 800km 10 SRBM), a Saudi Power plant(within 800km 10SRBM), Dropping a few missile on Saudi Air Force base(within 800km 20 SRBM), Dropping a 5 MRBM with cluster warheads on a Saudi Port & Naval base off the Red Sea, Taking out a Saudi ship with a sub & maybe drop a missile on the mansion of the Saudi crown prince...

You can call that an escalation if you want but Iran didn't start it and what Iran CAN NOT afford to do is waist it's missiles on a tit for tat game against the Saudi Air Force where they take out military assets & you respond by destroying some asphalt and concrete at an Air Force base because clearly your going to be the looser of such a game & just like the border skirmishes with Iraq that led to an 8 year long war without a harsh & painful response by Iran to any Saudi Attack the Saudi's will feel emboldened and won't feel like they miscalculated & they will continue behaving foolishly!

 

[AmirPatriot]

Amir was saying that if the Saudi's take out an Iranian Air Force base & an Iranian warship we shouldn't escalate & should only respond in kind by taking out a Saudi warship & a Saudi Air Force base and then push for peace talks & I was explaining to him how impractical that truly is!

If the Saudi's take out an Iranian Air Force base using 20 F-15's & an Iranian warship in the gulf of Aden our response will need to be more in the lines of
Taking out a major Saudi refinery(within 800km, 10Missiles), an Oil facility(within 800km 10 SRBM), a Saudi Power plant(within 800km 10SRBM), Dropping a few missile on Saudi Air Force base(within 800km 20 SRBM), Dropping a 5 MRBM with cluster warheads on a Saudi Port & Naval base off the Red Sea, Taking out a Saudi ship with a sub & maybe drop a missile on the mansion of the Saudi crown prince...

You can call that an escalation if you want but Iran didn't start it and what Iran CAN NOT afford to do is waist it's missiles on a tit for tat game against the Saudi Air Force where they take out military assets & you respond by destroying some asphalt and concrete at an Air Force base because clearly your going to be the looser of such a game & just like the border skirmishes with Iraq that led to an 8 year long war without a harsh & painful response by Iran to any Saudi Attack the Saudi's will feel emboldened and won't feel like they miscalculated & they will continue behaving foolishly!

Even if you want to escalate (because in some situations, that may be advantageous), you don't escalate to civilian/industrial targets if your enemy has attacked only military targets. Your escalation has to have a context and a reason. It has to achieve both military and political objectives. You don't just attack random targets, like this power plant, that oil facility, those ports etc.

Ultimatums are very fashionable with Saudi nowadays. If Saudi sinks an Iranian frigate and/or other warships, blockades the strait and issues an ultimatum for Iran to do this or that, an escalation would not be unwise, but the nature of the escalation is important. Both to force them into a ceasefire and to make your actions palatable on the international stage. The latter is very important and highly dependent on how you respond. In this scenario, no, you don't hit random military/civilian/industrial targets, you cripple the Saudi navy with a strike more severe than theirs. This is not only militarily decisive, it has a clear defensive (and politically palatable) intention of preventing an adversary from achieving its objectives (blockading Iranian shipping).

If, however, you strike at an oil facility the whole world will get pissed off that you just tripled their oil prices, and will say you made an unfair response, killed civilians, bla bla etc.

And lastly, don't compare the Sacred Defence with a hypothetical future war that would have little to no similarities to it. We don't even share a land border ffs.

 

[VEVAK]

شما چند سالته و تو چند تا جنگ حضور داشتی می شه لطفا اینها را برای من بی تجربه جنگ ندیده روشن کنی و یا تو کدام دانشکده نظامی تا چه مقطعی تحصیلات دارید
ممنون میشم من روشن کنید
نظرات شما بسیار کار امد هستنننننننننننننن

ببخشید منظورم vivak بود



شما چند سالته و تو چند تا جنگ حضور داشتی می شه لطفا اینها را برای من بی تجربه جنگ ندیده روشن کنی و یا تو کدام دانشکده نظامی تا چه مقطعی تحصیلات دارید
ممنون میشم من روشن کنید
نظرات شما بسیار کار امد هستنننننننننننننن

excuse me i write parsi but i want to say it in my language

Ay baba do you even have a clue of what it is we are talking about?????

Are you telling me that If the Saudi's feel emboldened, miscalculate & escalate to a point where they feel comfortable doing something foolish like attacking an Iranian warship at sea and using their air force to attack an Iranian base, Iran should ONLY restrict it's self to responding in kind by hitting a Saudi warship & a Saudi Air Force base???? Really??? I don't need to be educated in military tactics to understand how foolish that is and aside from Sarbazi almost 2 decades ago I have no formal education in military tactics just what I read as a hobby!

I'm not saying Iran would loose to Saudi Arabia far from it! My point was that Iran CAN NOT afford to go tit for tat against the Saudi Air Force using ballistic missiles! Where they use their Air Force to take out Iranian military assets & we waist our missiles by ONLY targeting the Saudi Air Force with mostly superficial damages because we fear or don't want an escalation! In fact lack of a proper response is what will result in a further escalation because just like Saddam the Saudi's will miscalculate!

If the Saudi's take out an Iranian warship in the gulf of Aden and attack an Iranian Air force base using ~14 F-15E, ~6 F-15C + support aircraft that could easily take out over 50 Iranian military assets. In response, Iran will have to give a clear and decisive answer & that answer CAN NOT be restrictive and foolishly wasted on going after Saudi Air Force bases ONLY our response has to be against assets that help fund & power their Air Force!

And Iran will have to respond harshly for them to get the message so they fully comprehend that they miscalculated or else you would be playing into the hands of the Saudi's!

This is common sense you don't need to be educated in military tactics to comprehend this!

Even if you want to escalate (because in some situations, that may be advantageous), you don't escalate to civilian/industrial targets if your enemy has attacked only military targets. Your escalation has to have a context and a reason. It has to achieve both military and political objectives. You don't just attack random targets, like this power plant, that oil facility, those ports etc.

Ultimatums are very fashionable with Saudi nowadays. If Saudi sinks an Iranian frigate and/or other warships, blockades the strait and issues an ultimatum for Iran to do this or that, an escalation would not be unwise, but the nature of the escalation is important. Both to force them into a ceasefire and to make your actions palatable on the international stage. The latter is very important and highly dependent on how you respond. In this scenario, no, you don't hit random military/civilian/industrial targets, you cripple the Saudi navy with a strike more severe than theirs. This is not only militarily decisive, it has a clear defensive (and politically palatable) intention of preventing an adversary from achieving its objectives (blockading Iranian shipping).

If, however, you strike at an oil facility the whole world will get pissed off that you just tripled their oil prices, and will say you made an unfair response, killed civilians, bla bla etc.

And lastly, don't compare the Sacred Defence with a hypothetical future war that would have little to no similarities to it. We don't even share a land border ffs.

Propaganda is propaganda and people that are pro Iran will remain pro Iran regardless of Iran's response and vice versa

And what part of Saudi behavior has been rational so far that you think you can Iran can ration with these people?

If they attack military targets then in response Iran has to restrict it's self to Saudi Military targets ONLY? LOL! that's nothing but FICTION buddy! It doesn't apply to real life!

And I can promise you that if Iran restrict it's self to ONLY military targets we will lose!

Please explain what targets Iran should take out if the Saudi's destroy
All Iranian Subs, Warships, Fighter & Helo's at Bandar Abbas, Busher & Chabahar????

You think we should target what exactly????? Please explain so I can show you how absurd your way of thinking truly is!!!

 

[AmirPatriot]

Propaganda is propaganda and people that are pro Iran will remain pro Iran regardless of Iran's response and vice versa

What the hell are you talking about? Who said anything about people that support Iran? The whole reason why I'm saying we shouldn't escalate so easily is because that could drag the US into the war! You think we can just fucking nuke Riyadh and get away with it?

And what part of Saudi behavior has been rational

Aggressiveness =/= irrationality. Salman is aggressive and short sighted, but he isn't suicidal, nor stupid.

If they attack military targets then in response Iran has to restrict it's self to Saudi Military targets ONLY? LOL! that's nothing but FICTION buddy! It doesn't apply to real life!

And I can promise you that if Iran restrict it's self to ONLY military targets we will lose!

OK! Maybe instead of saying LOL!! you should actually bring up some points that counter my arguments!!! Try not to refer to wars from 70 years ago!!!! Try not to use examples that have no consideration of geography or geopolitics at all!!!!!

Please explain what targets Iran should take out if the Saudi's destroy
All Iranian Subs, Warships, Fighter & Helo's at Bandar Abbas, Busher & Chabahar????

At the minimum, the exact same to their bases near the Persian Gulf. To decide whether escalation is needed or not, you would need to tell me what their objective is.

 

[raptor22]

Amir was saying that if the Saudi's take out an Iranian Air Force base & an Iranian warship we shouldn't escalate & should only respond in kind by taking out a Saudi warship & a Saudi Air Force base and then push for peace talks & I was explaining to him how impractical that truly is!

If the Saudi's take out an Iranian Air Force base using 20 F-15's & an Iranian warship in the gulf of Aden our response will need to be more in the lines of
Taking out a major Saudi refinery(within 800km, 10Missiles), an Oil facility(within 800km 10 SRBM), a Saudi Power plant(within 800km 10SRBM), Dropping a few missile on Saudi Air Force base(within 800km 20 SRBM), Dropping a 5 MRBM with cluster warheads on a Saudi Port & Naval base off the Red Sea, Taking out a Saudi ship with a sub & maybe drop a missile on the mansion of the Saudi crown prince...

You can call that an escalation if you want but Iran didn't start it and what Iran CAN NOT afford to do is waist it's missiles on a tit for tat game against the Saudi Air Force where they take out military assets & you respond by destroying some asphalt and concrete at an Air Force base because clearly your going to be the looser of such a game & just like the border skirmishes with Iraq that led to an 8 year long war without a harsh & painful response by Iran to any Saudi Attack the Saudi's will feel emboldened and won't feel like they miscalculated & they will continue behaving foolishly!

I think as far as your foe limits its attacks just to military targets we should take the same step and if you think our missiles can not have desired destruction of their fighter jet and their bunkers then we should find other means to achieve that goal to paralyzed their air force. But I agree with you on the second part of your comment, our response must be devastating in level that makes them to see war as a costly painful path which needed to be abounded not continued, preventing war from getting prolonged.
Not only escalation ain't a bad idea but it would be a signal to others that Iran is ready to defend itself but still in the same manner but in bigger scale.

 

[VEVAK]

I think as far as your foe limits its attacks just to military targets we should take the same step and if you think our missiles can not have desired destruction of their fighter jet and their bunkers then we should find other means to achieve that goal to paralyzed their air force. But I agree with you on the second part of your comment, our response must be devastating in level that makes them to see war as a costly painful path which needed to be abounded not continued, preventing war from getting prolonged.
Not only escalation ain't a bad idea but it would be a signal to others that Iran is ready to defend itself but still in the same manner but in bigger scale.

The only way Iran's Ballistic Missiles could have any kind of desirable impact against Saudi Air Force is if we start the war & take preemptive action with good intel and that's something Iranian leaders would never do!!
But in such a scenario you are prepared for Saudi retaliation so
Your Navy is prepped with most of your subs & ships deployed so they don't become easy targets with radars on and personal ready to take action
Your Air Force is prepped with assets moved and ready to scramble
Your Air Defense is prepped your SAM's & radars are on and ready to take action long before an enemy fighter jet gets even close to your Air Space
etc, etc, etc,

But if the Saudi's start the war they could easily take out a large portion of Iranian military assets in the south & it would be fairly standard for them to prep for Iran's retaliation and if that happens then NO Iranian missiles will not have much use against the Saudi Air Force! Naturally, we will fire missiles at their Air Force to disrupt operation but we can not individually target assets! Unless Iran can deploy hundreds of spy sats at various orbits that can feed you live intel on what bunker to hit and when then even with a CEP of 50 meters at over 1500km it is just not likely! At least not with Ballistic Missiles or Cruise missiles fired from Iran!

Iran would have to go after what funds, fuels, powers & commands the Saudi Air Force rather than the actual fighter jets!

That's the ONLY way we would be able to bring the Saudi's back down to reality & to make them understand that they miscalculated and ensure that they don't do it again!

If the Saudi's wipeout Iran's Navy and we respond by destroying some runways & buildings at a few Saudi Air Force bases and the Saudi's go and say we made a mistake, we give up and lets start peace talks that means they are playing us for fools and that will only ensure that they do it again once Iran rebuilds it's Navy! Unless they agree to hand over their Navy to us we would have to be fools to accept such nonsense and we would HAVE to go after Saudi money which means we have to go after Saudi Oil to make them hurt so they never make such an idiotic move again!