Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[Sineva]

sepas.

although didn't they market fateh mobin as specifically anti-ship?

also, why haven't we seen much of the fateh 313? does it have same CEP as latest fateh 110?

to me it seems that would be a huge development to have a missile as accurate as the mobin with the range of the 313 (500km vs 300km for the fateh 110), so surely the next step would be to mass produce the fateh mobin warhead on the fateh 313...?

(they talk about zolfaqar being adapted for anti-ship, but i don't think zolfaqar has a good record for anti-land and latest fateh generations show more promise in my opinion.)

It looks like they decided to go for the zolfiqar over the 313,as it has better range [700km] with its separating warhead.Another advantage is that the separate warhead is a much smaller radar target and far more maneuverable so poses a much bigger challenge for any sam/abm system to engage as it is not having to lug the spent rocket motor around with it as the 110 does.It also seems likely that some of the technology in the 313 was used in the zolfiqar such as the composite reinforced motor cases.

Heres a pic of the hormuz 2 with its active radar seeker.I would imagine that this could be retrofitted to the zolfiqar.

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

It looks like they decided to go for the zolfiqar over the 313,as it has better range [700km] with its separating warhead.Another advantage is that the separate warhead is a much smaller radar target and far more maneuverable so poses a much bigger challenge for any sam/abm system to engage as it is not having to lug the spent rocket motor around with it as the 110 does.It also seems likely that some of the technology in the 313 was used in the zolfiqar such as the composite reinforced motor cases.

Heres a pic of the hormuz 2 with its active radar seeker.I would imagine that this could be retrofitted to the zolfiqar.

but isn't it strange they unveiled the fateh 313 more recent than zolfaqar but now they abandon the 313 for the zolfaqar? and how does explain the fateh mobin, can they fit that 'warhead'/targeting tech on the zolfaqar at least?

 

[skyshadow]

 

[skyshadow]

Iran is saying its emad missile has a range of 2500 km

 

[skyshadow]

new missiles are coming soon.

 

[PeeD]

So we have a new Soumar variant, the Hoveyzieh.

Different engines and probably different dimensions.

My 2 cents?

Serial produced and matured Toloue family engines were selected to create a cost effective weapon (engine nacelle is longer).

Engine should be fixed and not internally carried before launch as ground launcher allows a simple large container.

The space likely has been used, since the CoG is manipulated anyway due to the different engine, so a extra tank might have taken the space. In turn the warhead may have been enlarged too.

So what would be the range penalty of such a Soumar/Kh-55? The switch from turbofan to turbojet would still result in a range of 1250km if we assume a 50% less efficient propulsion. Even more conservative estimation would still mean 600-800km.

So the remaining question is if they simply were not able to copy the Soviet mini turbofan, whether the production numbers of it are too low or whether the differences in production would result in so much higher engine cost that a Toloue based conventional weapon is simply the most efficient approach.

Now we have the Meshkat, the Soumar and the new Hoveyzieh... all probably Kh-55 based but different in some way.

Centainly is that if they manage to make such a Hoveyzieh at 1,5 times the cost of a Noor, it becomes a good new capability.

 

[VEVAK]

So we have a new Soumar variant, the Hoveyzieh.

Different engines and probably different dimensions.

My 2 cents?

Serial produced and matured Toloue family engines were selected to create a cost effective weapon (engine nacelle is longer).

Engine should be fixed and not internally carried before launch as ground launcher allows a simple large container.

The space likely has been used, since the CoG is manipulated anyway due to the different engine, so a extra tank might have taken the space. In turn the warhead may have been enlarged too.

So what would be the range penalty of such a Soumar/Kh-55? The switch from turbofan to turbojet would still result in a range of 1250km if we assume a 50% less efficient propulsion. Even more conservative estimation would still mean 600-800km.

So the remaining question is if they simply were not able to copy the Soviet mini turbofan, whether the production numbers of it are too low or whether the differences in production would result in so much higher engine cost that a Toloue based conventional weapon is simply the most efficient approach.

Now we have the Meshkat, the Soumar and the new Hoveyzieh... all probably Kh-55 based but different in some way.

Centainly is that if they manage to make such a Hoveyzieh at 1,5 times the cost of a Noor, it becomes a good new capability.

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/...ید-وزارت-دفاع-به-زودی-وارد-چرخه-تولید-می-شوند

Iran's Defense minister claiming that Iran tested a new 2000km BM that was able to hit the middle of a 30meter X 30 meters target which is basically the dimensions of a standard sized fighter bunker

Which means with the right intel 1000 of them could effectively neutralize any regional Air Force!

The best defense is always a good offense and the only way to prevent a war is to properly invest in and showcase Iran's offensive capabilities to show what could happen if Iran is ever attacked
And if what he said is true Iran needs to make a massive investment towards mass production of these Missile, their fuel, warhead,... produced at rates as high as 2-4 per week with sufficient number of launch platform or silos to go with them
with the Fatteh-110, Fatteh-313, zolfaghar, Soumar or Howazieh each produced at rates as high as 1 per day

Iran hasn't purchased fighters for over 40 years now and within the next decade or two we will reach a point where having manned fighters will be more a disadvantage over Quantum com remotely piloted supersonic or hypersonic fighters. So if Iranian scientist are projecting that Quantum coms will definitely be a possibility within the next decade or so then the bulk of Iran's defense spending needs to go towards mass producing large number of missiles and R&D towards quantum coms and building large high speed, highly maneuverable, high altitude UCAV's with sufficient amount of payload because that's the type of tech Iran needs to plan for over a decade or two ahead of time

 

[skyshadow]

So we have a new Soumar variant, the Hoveyzieh.

Different engines and probably different dimensions.

My 2 cents?

Serial produced and matured Toloue family engines were selected to create a cost effective weapon (engine nacelle is longer).

Engine should be fixed and not internally carried before launch as ground launcher allows a simple large container.

The space likely has been used, since the CoG is manipulated anyway due to the different engine, so a extra tank might have taken the space. In turn the warhead may have been enlarged too.

So what would be the range penalty of such a Soumar/Kh-55? The switch from turbofan to turbojet would still result in a range of 1250km if we assume a 50% less efficient propulsion. Even more conservative estimation would still mean 600-800km.

So the remaining question is if they simply were not able to copy the Soviet mini turbofan, whether the production numbers of it are too low or whether the differences in production would result in so much higher engine cost that a Toloue based conventional weapon is simply the most efficient approach.

Now we have the Meshkat, the Soumar and the new Hoveyzieh... all probably Kh-55 based but different in some way.

Centainly is that if they manage to make such a Hoveyzieh at 1,5 times the cost of a Noor, it becomes a good new capability.

can it be the air lunched type with half the range lets say 1500 km?

 

[PeeD]

@VEVAK

I think you hint to a kind of communication via quantum entanglement. Unfortunately this is impossible with known physics. Quantum entanglement can only ensure that the data is legit/original and not falsified. The radio energy for transmission can still be jammed or taken out.
So the very high level robust and secure communication needed for such UAVs is not possible today.

can it be the air lunched type with half the range lets say 1500 km?

Possible yes. But for a air launched weapon you would go for a more compact engine, as the original Soumar. It is ground launch which does not require a pop-out engine nacelle or a very compact engine.
The Hoveyzieh has no booster mounted but either the Soumar was not mastered and they needed to switch down to a turbojet variant or the Hoveyzieh is a cost effective conventional interpretation of the expensive, nuclear, air launched Kh-55/Soumar.
It would be no shame if the Kh-55 turbofan was not mastered or deemed sufficiently cost effective. That's because the Kh-55 was so advanced in its non-propulsion aspects, that its huge 2500km range would still result in a considerable range performance in a Toloue powered turbojet variant.
The 1500km range claim by Hajizadeh could indeed be for a turbojet powered Kh-55.

 

[skyshadow]

@VEVAK

I think you hint to a kind of communication via quantum entanglement. Unfortunately this is impossible with known physics. Quantum entanglement can only ensure that the data is legit/original and not falsified. The radio energy for transmission can still be jammed or taken out.
So the very high level robust and secure communication needed for such UAVs is not possible today.




Possible yes. But for a air launched weapon you would go for a more compact engine, as the original Soumar. It is ground launch which does not require a pop-out engine nacelle or a very compact engine.
The Hoveyzieh has no booster mounted but either the Soumar was not mastered and they needed to switch down to a turbojet variant or the Hoveyzieh is a cost effective conventional interpretation of the expensive, nuclear, air launched Kh-55/Soumar.
It would be no shame if the Kh-55 turbofan was not mastered or deemed sufficiently cost effective. That's because the Kh-55 was so advanced in its non-propulsion aspects, that its huge 2500km range would still result in a considerable range performance in a Toloue powered turbojet variant.
The 1500km range claim by Hajizadeh could indeed be for a turbojet powered Kh-55.

i would say the cost effective scenario is the main reason that they changed the engine, for example, by lunching Hoveyzieh at much less distance then soumar CM was built to hit. like military targets in Israel. you would not lunch an 2500 km missile for targets that are 1200 km away it would not be cost effective.

 

[PeeD]

i would say the cost effective scenario is the main reason that they changed the engine, for example, by lunching Hoveyzieh at much less distance then soumar CM was built to hit. like military targets in Israel. you would not lunch an 2500 km missile for targets that are 1200 km away it would not be cost effective.

Yes. But whats different with CM is that you can use extra range to attack from very different directions.
This is a capability BM's lack. Only hypersonic glide vehicles could change that in future.
However due to their low speed, CMs have a hard time to attack a highly protected target.

1500km in a cost effective, heavy warhead Kh-55 variant would be sufficient for Irans threat scenario. The small footprint of mobile CM launchers allow them to operate dispersed, close to the borders.

 

[mohsen]

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/...ید-وزارت-دفاع-به-زودی-وارد-چرخه-تولید-می-شوند

View attachment 535728

Iran's Defense minister claiming that Iran tested a new 2000km BM that was able to hit the middle of a 30meter X 30 meters target which is basically the dimensions of a standard sized fighter bunker

Which means with the right intel 1000 of them could effectively neutralize any regional Air Force!

The best defense is always a good offense and the only way to prevent a war is to properly invest in and showcase Iran's offensive capabilities to show what could happen if Iran is ever attacked
And if what he said is true Iran needs to make a massive investment towards mass production of these Missile, their fuel, warhead,... produced at rates as high as 2-4 per week with sufficient number of launch platform or silos to go with them
with the Fatteh-110, Fatteh-313, zolfaghar, Soumar or Howazieh each produced at rates as high as 1 per day

Iran hasn't purchased fighters for over 40 years now and within the next decade or two we will reach a point where having manned fighters will be more a disadvantage over Quantum com remotely piloted supersonic or hypersonic fighters. So if Iranian scientist are projecting that Quantum coms will definitely be a possibility within the next decade or so then the bulk of Iran's defense spending needs to go towards mass producing large number of missiles and R&D towards quantum coms and building large high speed, highly maneuverable, high altitude UCAV's with sufficient amount of payload because that's the type of tech Iran needs to plan for over a decade or two ahead of time

Zero error for Khorramshahr MIRV ballistic missile.
1000/3

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran hasn't purchased fighters for over 40 years now and within the next decade or two we will reach a point where having manned fighters will be more a disadvantage over Quantum com remotely piloted supersonic or hypersonic fighters. So if Iranian scientist are projecting that Quantum coms will definitely be a possibility within the next decade or so then the bulk of Iran's defense spending needs to go towards mass producing large number of missiles and R&D towards quantum coms and building large high speed, highly maneuverable, high altitude UCAV's with sufficient amount of payload because that's the type of tech Iran needs to plan for over a decade or two ahead of time

Sometimes I wonder what planet you are on. Because it is obviously one that doesn’t have the notion of logic.

Iran still cannot copy a 1970’s F-14 or Mig-29 for that matter (please don’t give me the titanium excuse again). But yet you expect it to create “large high speed highly maneuverable high altitude UCAVs” that is either “supersonic or Hypersonic”.

I mean seriously, it’s like telling an engineer who can’t build a 30 story building to skip that and go build the Burj Khalifa. You don’t just “magically” jump in technological capability.

If it wasn’t for RQ-170, Iran would still be a decade away from flying wing design UAV. If it wasn’t for predator and other ScanEagle, Iran wouldn’t have SAR or any true MALE UAV like it has today. (Probably still stuck with Mohajer and Ababil).

My point?

Since Iran’s aerospace industry quite frankly sucks, without a massive influx of ToT or a proven design to reverse engineer, Iran is not going to be able to build your super duper 6th/7th gen fighter.

Now we have the Meshkat, the Soumar and the new Hoveyzieh... all probably Kh-55 based but different in some way.

The fact that neither Soumar or Meshkat was used in Syria (publically). Likely points to lack of confidence in the system. Iran is likely having trouble with the Kh-55. Having it over 2 decades in its possession and still not operational.

 

[sha ah]

Just revamps of older models, but its good that they keep the technology up to date, although I wonder what they're secretly working on since this is probably the tip of the iceberg.

new missiles are coming soon.



View attachment 535623 View attachment 535624 View attachment 535625 View attachment 535626 View attachment 535628

 

[PeeD]

The fact that neither Soumar or Meshkat was used in Syria (publically). Likely points to lack of confidence in the system. Iran is likely having trouble with the Kh-55. Having it over 2 decades in its possession and still not operational.

The Kh-55 engine is difficult to be economically serial produced. Iran is only since a few decades into the turbo machinery business and the Kh-55 engine top technology.

But the main reason should be that subsonic CMs can be easily shot down, often even almost intact. A non-stealth CM could be easily picked up by enemy AWACS and intercepted due to subsonic speed.

So this is vulnerabel technology that can be detected, intercepted and captured intact. It can't be used against a protected target and if you have no other choices, you need to use them in high numbers to create a saturation effect (like US Tomahawks in Syria).

You can use intelligence to circumvent defenses and attack from the least protected direction. But Iran should only use it's CM's if the risk of technology loss is worth it and the most potent enemy defenses are already taken out by other means, degraded to a medium threat level. Then the accuracy of CMs can be exploited.

However in light of BMs such as the Zolfaghar, questions will arrive: Which weapon system is more economic? It is well possible that the Soumar was not competitive in cost-effect calculation against Irans BMs. Hence the team was forced to develop a cost effective alternative that could compete, with the Hoveyzieh as result.

Russia was basically forced to go for CMs as their intermediate range treaty forbids them to have BMs.
I imagine that without that treaty, they would have used Oka-like BMs from their own territory to strike daesh targets in Syria.
However CMs would be a added capability for Iran that forces the enemy to invest and keep counter assets.