Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[Sineva]

So we have a new Soumar variant, the Hoveyzieh.

Different engines and probably different dimensions.

My 2 cents?

Serial produced and matured Toloue family engines were selected to create a cost effective weapon (engine nacelle is longer).

Engine should be fixed and not internally carried before launch as ground launcher allows a simple large container.

The space likely has been used, since the CoG is manipulated anyway due to the different engine, so a extra tank might have taken the space. In turn the warhead may have been enlarged too.

So what would be the range penalty of such a Soumar/Kh-55? The switch from turbofan to turbojet would still result in a range of 1250km if we assume a 50% less efficient propulsion. Even more conservative estimation would still mean 600-800km.

So the remaining question is if they simply were not able to copy the Soviet mini turbofan, whether the production numbers of it are too low or whether the differences in production would result in so much higher engine cost that a Toloue based conventional weapon is simply the most efficient approach.

Now we have the Meshkat, the Soumar and the new Hoveyzieh... all probably Kh-55 based but different in some way.

Centainly is that if they manage to make such a Hoveyzieh at 1,5 times the cost of a Noor, it becomes a good new capability.

The problem with this new engine being a toloue 4 is that those engines have a very prominent bulb at the front of the intake

Another possible option is that since the drop down engine configuration isnt being used anymore,that they`ve kept the turbofan but redesigned the nacelle,perhaps with a more efficient intake and exhaust as the original drop down configuration basically limited that to just the engine with a very basic cowling.

 

[skyshadow]

new warhead

اخگر؛ سلاح جدید پهپادهای ایرانی

موشک اخگر که در نمایشگاه دستاوردهای دفاعی نیروهای مسلح به نمایش درآمده، جدیدترین سلاح پهپادهای ایرانی است که از فاصله ۳۰ کیلومتری و از پهپاد قابلیت شلیک به سمت اهداف را دارد.

این موشک که مجهز به یک موتور میکروجت است، با سرعت ۶۰۰ کیلومتر بر ساعت از سرجنگی ۷ کیلوگرمی برخوردار است.


مشخصات موشک اخگر:

وزن موشک: ۲۷ کیلوگرم

وزن سرجنگی: ۷ کیلوگرم

برد موشک: ۳۰ کیلومتر

حداکثر سرعت: ۶۰۰ کیلومتر

طول موشک: ۱.۷ متر

قطر موشک: ۱۳ سانتی‌متر

نوع هدایت: تلویزیونی

قاصد ۳؛ شلیک از صد کیلومتری

موشک کروز هوا پایه قاصد ۳ که تاکنون فقط در رژه‌ها و به صورت محمول به نمایش در می‌آمد، در این نمایشگاه تصاویری از نصب آن بر روی هواپیمای F-4 فانتوم و مشخصات فنی آن نیز به نمایش درآمده است.

این موشک با طول ۵.۱۵ متر و سرجنگی ۱۰۰۰ پوندی، از سامانه هدایتی مبتنی بر سر جستجوگر تصویری برخوردار است و قابلیت شلیک از فاصله ۱۰۰ کیلومتری را دارد.


مشخصات قاصد -۳:

طول: ۵.۱۵ متر

قطر بدنه: ۳۶ سانتی‌متر

مساحت بال: ۱۲۷ سانتی‌متر

وزن: ۸۵۰ کیلوگرم

سرجنگی: بمب ۱۰۰۰ پوندی

برد مؤثر: بالای ۱۰۰ کیلومتر

نوع فیوز: ضربه‌ای

سامانه هدایت و کنترل: سر جستجوگر تصویری، سطوح کنترلی دم و کامپیوتر پرواز

پیشران: موتور مینی جت

is it a new warhead ?

The Kh-55 engine is difficult to be economically serial produced. Iran is only since a few decades into the turbo machinery business and the Kh-55 engine top technology.

But the main reason should be that subsonic CMs can be easily shot down, often even almost intact. A non-stealth CM could be easily picked up by enemy AWACS and intercepted due to subsonic speed.

So this is vulnerabel technology that can be detected, intercepted and captured intact. It can't be used against a protected target and if you have no other choices, you need to use them in high numbers to create a saturation effect (like US Tomahawks in Syria).

You can use intelligence to circumvent defenses and attack from the least protected direction. But Iran should only use it's CM's if the risk of technology loss is worth it and the most potent enemy defenses are already taken out by other means, degraded to a medium threat level. Then the accuracy of CMs can be exploited.

However in light of BMs such as the Zolfaghar, questions will arrive: Which weapon system is more economic? It is well possible that the Soumar was not competitive in cost-effect calculation against Irans BMs. Hence the team was forced to develop a cost effective alternative that could compete, with the Hoveyzieh as result.

Russia was basically forced to go for CMs as their intermediate range treaty forbids them to have BMs.
I imagine that without that treaty, they would have used Oka-like BMs from their own territory to strike daesh targets in Syria.
However CMs would be a added capability for Iran that forces the enemy to invest and keep counter assets.

i think they removed Hoveyzieh CM i did not see it today at all. did you? . but why?

 

[scythian500]

 

[VEVAK]

i would say the cost effective scenario is the main reason that they changed the engine, for example, by lunching Hoveyzieh at much less distance then soumar CM was built to hit. like military targets in Israel. you would not lunch an 2500 km missile for targets that are 1200 km away it would not be cost effective.

cruise missiles become easy targets when flying in a straight line and at optimal altitude due to their relatively slow speeds so 2500km doesn't mean its built for targets beyond 2000km because at the very least that's the max range you would need to effectively hit a target that's 1200km away and even then against a highly protected airspace like Israel you would need to conduct various tactics and countermeasures and attempt to overwhelm their defenses with blitz tactics to be effective...

Even in the 80's when Iran wanted to attack the H3 Airbases in Iraq our pilots couldn't simply fly in a straight line at an optimal cruise altitude towards those targets and that was with the sensor and defense capabilities of the 80's....

 

[VEVAK]

@VEVAK

I think you hint to a kind of communication via quantum entanglement. Unfortunately this is impossible with known physics. Quantum entanglement can only ensure that the data is legit/original and not falsified. The radio energy for transmission can still be jammed or taken out.
So the very high level robust and secure communication needed for such UAVs is not possible today.




Possible yes. But for a air launched weapon you would go for a more compact engine, as the original Soumar. It is ground launch which does not require a pop-out engine nacelle or a very compact engine.
The Hoveyzieh has no booster mounted but either the Soumar was not mastered and they needed to switch down to a turbojet variant or the Hoveyzieh is a cost effective conventional interpretation of the expensive, nuclear, air launched Kh-55/Soumar.
It would be no shame if the Kh-55 turbofan was not mastered or deemed sufficiently cost effective. That's because the Kh-55 was so advanced in its non-propulsion aspects, that its huge 2500km range would still result in a considerable range performance in a Toloue powered turbojet variant.
The 1500km range claim by Hajizadeh could indeed be for a turbojet powered Kh-55.

Yes sir! quantum entanglement of photons and I'm going based on what Salehi said and that is near instantaneous and 100% secure (without physical access to the device at least) quantum com's and for military application like a UCAV it would be 2 devices linked together that can only communicate with each other

And I wouldn't say it's impossible, it's most definitely theoretically possible and they way Salehi was speaking was as if it would even be commercially available within the next 2 decades....

And for a supersonic remotely operated UCAV to be truly superior to a manned fighter you would need near instantaneous com's with almost 0 lag time.

As for the Hoveyzeh if the engine is truly a turbojet that would be disappointing but on top of that the locations of the control surfaces & location of the engine are also disappointing and put together will result in a higher RCS and clearly they planed for the cheapest rout by using the same flight controls, computers and avionics as the Soumar and KH-55…

But that said when it comes to low cost Cruise Missile I believe the most important factor should be the ability to produce them quickly and in vast numbers and if every part is truly produced at home then they shouldn't cost Iran any more than $100K-$200K USD each

 

[skyshadow]

 

[Hack-Hook]

اخگر؛ سلاح جدید پهپادهای ایرانی

موشک اخگر که در نمایشگاه دستاوردهای دفاعی نیروهای مسلح به نمایش درآمده، جدیدترین سلاح پهپادهای ایرانی است که از فاصله ۳۰ کیلومتری و از پهپاد قابلیت شلیک به سمت اهداف را دارد.

این موشک که مجهز به یک موتور میکروجت است، با سرعت ۶۰۰ کیلومتر بر ساعت از سرجنگی ۷ کیلوگرمی برخوردار است.


مشخصات موشک اخگر:

وزن موشک: ۲۷ کیلوگرم

وزن سرجنگی: ۷ کیلوگرم

برد موشک: ۳۰ کیلومتر

حداکثر سرعت: ۶۰۰ کیلومتر

طول موشک: ۱.۷ متر

قطر موشک: ۱۳ سانتی‌متر

نوع هدایت: تلویزیونی

if true then its probably the lightest missile that can reach that range

 

[Sineva]

if true then its probably the lightest missile that can reach that range

Whats interesting is that there are actually 2 missiles with this configuration,a lightweight....

...and a heavyweight that is based on the qassad 3 rocket boosted glide bomb airframe

 

[PeeD]

Yes sir! quantum entanglement of photons and I'm going based on what Salehi said and that is near instantaneous and 100% secure (without physical access to the device at least) quantum com's and for military application like a UCAV it would be 2 devices linked together that can only communicate with each other

And I wouldn't say it's impossible, it's most definitely theoretically possible and they way Salehi was speaking was as if it would even be commercially available within the next 2 decades....

And for a supersonic remotely operated UCAV to be truly superior to a manned fighter you would need near instantaneous com's with almost 0 lag time.

As for the Hoveyzeh if the engine is truly a turbojet that would be disappointing but on top of that the locations of the control surfaces & location of the engine are also disappointing and put together will result in a higher RCS and clearly they planed for the cheapest rout by using the same flight controls, computers and avionics as the Soumar and KH-55…

But that said when it comes to low cost Cruise Missile I believe the most important factor should be the ability to produce them quickly and in vast numbers and if every part is truly produced at home then they shouldn't cost Iran any more than $100K-$200K USD each

I was disappointed to hear that from Salehi. He is a technical man and should know that such communication would break the accepted physical law that faster than light travel or communication is impossible. Einsteins relativity theory would be violated if such instant communication via quantum entanglement would be possible.

I think he got that wrong and it is very unlikely that Iran has falsified Einsteins theory.

 

[skyshadow]

Iranian Arash radar. AESA radar.

 

[VEVAK]

I was disappointed to hear that from Salehi. He is a technical man and should know that such communication would break the accepted physical law that faster than light travel or communication is impossible. Einsteins relativity theory would be violated if such instant communication via quantum entanglement would be possible.

I think he got that wrong and it is very unlikely that Iran has falsified Einsteins theory.

Come on man you should know the current laws of known physics don't apply at a sub atomic level! Gravity doesn't follow the same rules either because if it did we wouldn't exist for most of our body is actually made up of empty space....

 

[TheImmortal]

I was disappointed to hear that from Salehi. He is a technical man and should know that such communication would break the accepted physical law that faster than light travel or communication is impossible. Einsteins relativity theory would be violated if such instant communication via quantum entanglement would be possible.

I think he got that wrong and it is very unlikely that Iran has falsified Einsteins theory.

You are wrong.

If two quantum particles are “entangled” it doesn’t matter if one is 5 Million light years away, if one is “altered” the other quantum particle responds near instantly.

Current laws of physics break down at the sub atomic level.

 

[skyshadow]

new missile?

 

[PeeD]

@VEVAK @TheImmortal

Relativity forbids FTL communication and Salehis quantum entanglement would be FTL communication.
I checked this back then when Salehi stated this and I got confused.

Let me put it this way: If that would be possible, you would equip a starship with a reservoir of entangled quantum and communicate with earth instantly, even if light years away. Relativity forbids this (I would love if it would be possible).

@skyshadow

Looks like a Emad variant (retro booster) or maybe a new Qiam variant.

 

[skyshadow]

@VEVAK @TheImmortal

Relativity forbids FTL communication and Salehis quantum entanglement would be FTL communication.
I checked this back then when Salehi stated this and I got confused.

Let me put it this way: If that would be possible, you would equip a starship with a reservoir of entangled quantum and communicate with earth instantly, even if light years away. Relativity forbids this (I would love if it would be possible).

@skyshadow

Looks like a Emad variant (retro booster) or maybe a new Qiam variant.

the missile body looks more like Qiam. and i have some good news, we have a new radar.