Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[PeeD]

VEVAK, this is a scenario in which you set a kung fu master against a man with a handgun (aircraft vs. ballsitic missiles).

The airforce scenario is what the Americans want to dictate. They themselves don't use tactical BM's, they have treaties with Russia about this due to the potential of tipping it with nuclear warheads.

What they are allowed to use are cruise missiles, masses of it. Iran has a dozen airbases, just calculate what 2-3 thousands against each of them will cause in course of a few days. Irans current IADS would not be able to handle such a saturation attack. You want something like R-77 equipped Mig-35 to shot those massive volleys of Tomahawks down? Or TOR-M1 at minimal cost? This is not sufficient against such a massive superiority in numbers.

Massive numbers of low flying multi-attack-vector CMs are up to today something even the Russians with their IADS have fears about. Now the potential use of ballistic missiles is even more dangerous and difficult to stop.

That's why we come back to my initial statement: With Irans potential enemies (not the usual small regionals), anything depending on a airfield and not at a massively hardened location is too vulnerable. Airbases inside mountains are something of the past.

Ballistic missiles in underground bases come first, then the same for cruise missiles, then IADS assets protecting them.

This war scenario is completely different from what we know from the past. In the course of a few days either Irans offensive capabilities will be destroyed or Iran destroys the offensive capabilities of the enemy.
At the moment Irans missiles lack the very long ranges and true pin-point accuracy, plus the space based reconnaissance capability. Once this force structure is in place, Irans missile forces will give their best to degrade the offensive capability and if successful it's not of importance if a PAK-FA or a Shahed-129 cleans the battlefield of an enemy which has lost all its offensive assets which could pose a danger.

Iran could some day develop its airforce with Su-30, Qaher, UACV, or T-50, but this would only happen if what I described, the real backbone is strong enough and the budget allows to get some of these in order to fight low intensity wars against inferior enemies. The last airforce scenarios are a future fleet of intercontinental bombers or hypervelocity aircrafts for near space warfare, all of this is very far away.

Everything from F-22 to DF-21 to hardened missile silos to aircraft carriers to super airbases to HQs down to defense ministry will be handled by missile weapons (BM, CM, SAM).

Just ask yourself in which serious scenario any of Irans airbases could remain operational to enable airforce operations?

 

[mse21]

خوب مجبوریم رفیق وقتی شاهای قجر مملکت رو به پشم گرفته بودن و تیکه پاره ازش میفروختن برن خارجه حال کنن و با سرسره جنسی شون حال میکردن تو اروپا انقلاب صنعتی رو پیش میبردن.دیگه بالاخره 200 سال عقب افتادگی صنعتی باید خودشو جایی نشون بده یانه؟
من از مثال هام معذرت میخوام اما باید با واقعیت کنار اومد منم مثل شما ناراحتم دوتا کامنت هم قبلا باهم درموردش بحث کردیم اما چه میشه کرد تحریم و نبود علم دو نکته بسیار مهمه
​

 

[VEVAK]

aziz man hamina ke goftam 5000 mooshak daghigh ba 1200 cruse va 9 B ham baraye mooshak gheir daghighesh goftam. ke khodesh kheili arzoon tare.
man tajjob mikonam harja har commenti in shekli didam harkas boode hey modam az naft o gaz migan. are darim ama vaghti nemitoonim befrooshim ya masalan jamiat ziadeh khob che khonim mage ma mesl ghatar masalan 1 melion hastim?! mohem nist cheghad darim mohem forooshe va jamiati ke gharare bahash sir konim.
koodooom az hamsayeh haye ma bombafkan sangin daran?? ke gheir az 3 keshvar aval bomb afkan sangin dare???
ba awacs movafegham
ettefaghan too niroo havaee soraat pishraft selah kamtare masalan amarram d chan sale oomade? f22 chan saleh? shoma middoni ke hazine tahghigh tose sakht ye jangande chand darmiad khob motmaennan az hazine ye telephon bishtare. soraat sakhtesham hamintor.
vaghti mooshak sakhti va estefade nakardi in mimoone ta chand sal momkene masalan bakhsh hayee azash upgrade beshe ke goftam bishtar hazinash sarjangee sookht hastan pas aya ma bish az 30000 mooshak balistic niaz darim?? ba darsad barkhord 50 darsad ke 6000 tash bayad mooshak haye daghigh 2000 cruse baghiash hadaf hastan amalan baraye khali kardan defa havaee.
inam ke goftid 10B FAGHAT havapeyma inam ziade. kheli ke beshe mishe 7B na 10B (hesab kardam ghablan) .onam faghat havapeyma! hamchin pooli aslan nadarim.
darkol ziad goftid gheymat mooshak va hazineh harsalash

1.Ma Irani ha bayad befahmeem keh nafti keh dareem barayeh dasti doodan o pool to jeebi dodan beh mellat neest
Agheh gharar bood pool e naft beyneh 80 Million tagseem koneem badbakht meshodeem
Yaraneh dodan ahmaghtarreen karri yeh keh yeh dollat metoneh anjom bedeh!

2.Dar asl beshtar az 80% dollar pool naft Iran bayad kharj tooleedeh sellah ha boomi beshavad! Chera? Choon hagheghat jahan emroozeh ean ast keh resheh technology har keshvari dar tavanaii ha nezami on keshvar va aksar technology ha jaddeed donya resheh dar tajheezateh nezami dorad va agar keshvari bekhahad technology keshvaresh ro bala bebarad ta reffah va amneeat barayeh keshvarash beyavarad bayad dar on resheh sarmayehgozari konad va ta zamani keh ean sarmayehgozari hamash boomi boshad sood kardi lakeen agar ean pool kharej az keshvar shaved bi shak zarrar

Everything from simple electric engines to the Internet to your microwave you use at home to your cell phone, computer, radio, nanotechnology, batteries, cameras, Airplanes to even toys like quadcopters... all these things are rooted in or have advanced because of military weapons & military R&D!
Iran today is one of the fastest growing countries in Science & Technology BUT we haven't been able to turn theory, scale down models or a prototype into a product why? because of lack of funding & the truth is in every country there is only one organization disciplined enough, motivated enough & organized enough to turn such advancements into a usable product and that's the MILITARY & any advancement they make and any product they produce will eventually be transferred back to the civilian sector & turned into a product!

 

[mse21]

نظر من درمورد یارانه همون ندادنش هست اما درمورد خرج مملکت دوست گرامی شما انگار نمیدونی ما صرفا یک کشور وارد کننده هستیم اینارو باید با چی بخریمبرنج انواع اقسام کالاهای برقی و خیلی چیزهای دیگه و چون صادزرات خاصی جز نفت نیست و تولیدی در فرایند واردات صورت نمیگیره و عملا نرخ مالیات پایینه پس این پایین بودن نرخ مالیات با همین نفت جایگزین میشه بالاخره شهرسلزی هست و هزارویک مورد خرج دیگه که مردم سراسر دنیا با مالیات میدن اما ما با پول نفت داریم خرجش رو میدیم و چون تولید نداریم ارزش پول و میزان مالیات پایین مونده تا با مابقی پول نفت جایگزین بشه که متاسفانه اینده ای هم با این سرعت برای ایران چیشبینهی نمیشه مگر اینکه بتونیم به نحوی صادرات خیلی گسترده یعنی یه منبع مالی بزرگ پیداکنیم پس عملا همه پای پول نفت خوابیده ایم
درمورد خرج برای مباحث نظامی تنها درصورتی اتفاق میفته که یا خودمون درداخل تعارف رو بذاریم کنار و شرکت ها خصوصی بشن و تولید و خرید بسیار گسترده انجام بشه که ابتدا تولبید کاذب همرا با بدهی مشابه امریکا رخ میده و بعد از اون نرخ تولید واقعی میشه فایده اینکارهم اینه که الان وزارت دفاع برای خودش الیاژ توسعه میده پول خرج میکنه اما صزفا ازش موشک میسازه اگر خصوصی بشه همین یک خرج ممکنه جاهای دیگه هم به درد بخوره یا یه منبع پول بزرگ یا مالیات و افزایش نرخ خدمات با شیب تند یا افزایش فروش نفت داشته باشیم.یاهم به صادرات ثابت و پایدار همین سلاح دست پیداکنیم که اینم باتوجه به تحریم غیرممکنه
موارد دیگه مثلا صادرات اقلام غیر نظامی مدنظر نمیتونه باشه چون به دلیل نبود علم و بالا بودن هزینه تحقیق توسعه کیفیت کم و امثالهم فروش چندانی نخواهد داشت مگر با دامپینگ و درعین حال کنار گذاشتن دندون گردی کارخانه دارها که متاسفانه مسبب خیلی از مشکلاته بهمراه حمایت مالی دولت که شرکت زمین نخوره یا اینکه دولت خرج تحقیق توسعه رو در برخی قسمت ها بده یا وام های بی بهره و بسیار بلند مدت
درکل سرمایه نیاز داریم​

 

[VEVAK]

VEVAK, this is a scenario in which you set a kung fu master against a man with a handgun (aircraft vs. ballsitic missiles).

The airforce scenario is what the Americans want to dictate. They themselves don't use tactical BM's, they have treaties with Russia about this due to the potential of tipping it with nuclear warheads.

What they are allowed to use are cruise missiles, masses of it. Iran has a dozen airbases, just calculate what 2-3 thousands against each of them will cause in course of a few days. Irans current IADS would not be able to handle such a saturation attack. You want something like R-77 equipped Mig-35 to shot those massive volleys of Tomahawks down? Or TOR-M1 at minimal cost? This is not sufficient against such a massive superiority in numbers.

Massive numbers of low flying multi-attack-vector CMs are up to today something even the Russians with their IADS have fears about. Now the potential use of ballistic missiles is even more dangerous and difficult to stop.

That's why we come back to my initial statement: With Irans potential enemies (not the usual small regionals), anything depending on a airfield and not at a massively hardened location is too vulnerable. Airbases inside mountains are something of the past.

Ballistic missiles in underground bases come first, then the same for cruise missiles, then IADS assets protecting them.

This war scenario is completely different from what we know from the past. In the course of a few days either Irans offensive capabilities will be destroyed or Iran destroys the offensive capabilities of the enemy.
At the moment Irans missiles lack the very long ranges and true pin-point accuracy, plus the space based reconnaissance capability. Once this force structure is in place, Irans missile forces will give their best to degrade the offensive capability and if successful it's not of importance if a PAK-FA or a Shahed-129 cleans the battlefield of an enemy which has lost all its offensive assets which could pose a danger.

Iran could some day develop its airforce with Su-30, Qaher, UACV, or T-50, but this would only happen if what I described, the real backbone is strong enough and the budget allows to get some of these in order to fight low intensity wars against inferior enemies. The last airforce scenarios are a future fleet of intercontinental bombers or hypervelocity aircrafts for near space warfare, all of this is very far away.

Everything from F-22 to DF-21 to hardened missile silos to aircraft carriers to super airbases to HQs down to defense ministry will be handled by missile weapons (BM, CM, SAM).

Just ask yourself in which serious scenario any of Irans airbases could remain operational to enable airforce operations?

A country the size of Iran with the Oil & Gas that it has in a conventional military structure has to at the very least purchase 12 "MODERN" Fighters a year to compliment it's Air Defense & strictly for Air Defense
Iran for the past 30 years hasn't done that so their is no point in speculating on how we would defend ourselves against a superior US Air Force if we had

And the U.S. is not bordered with Iran and just as they did with Iraq the U.S. will rely mostly on it's Air Force and
currently the U.S. can at MAX fire 1200 tomahawks at Iran in the 1st blitz attack
That's 100 at each Base taking out the top 5 Air Bases top 5 light bunkered missile bases coastal areas & that leaves ~200 to go after Iranian Radars & SAM sites paving the way for their Air Force to go after Iran's top 50 missile bases with 300 Fighter Aircraft each Aircraft doing 2 sorties a day a squadron of 12 Aircraft towards each base
And once they are assured they have full Air Superiority & vital SAM system have been taken out Bombers & UAV's will go after the rest bombers to totally destroy deep underground bases & UAV's to hit mobile launchers

So the only way to counter this with Iran's current capabilities is to have more missile at more bases on launcher that are ready to hit their pre determined targets in a very short time span that means you need more than 500 missile bases that are well protected with each base having at least 10 missiles ready to go with an extremely fast reaction time
And Iranian UCAV & MALE UAV's have to be scattered across 1000 airstrips & Air Fields Iran already has

Iran has to show that right after the US 1st wave blitz attack it can still hit the top 2000 US assets within 1000km, drop 1000 on various Saudi Oil Facilities & shut down the Persian Gulf that gives you a deterrence that allows you to build up an Air Force & you need an Air Force to use in situation where you don't want to use up your deterrence factor

 

[PeeD]

Against Iran, the Americans probably would just use Tomahawks, ATACMS and what else stand-off missiles they have in the first day.
They would reload their ships and fire more Tomahawks. Basically they would just do what Iran plans to do, pave the enemy with the missiles they have available first.
Iran is simply too dangerous to start the conflict with F-15, -16, -18, -22, -35 and with B-1 and -2. Their elite, means F-22, -35 and B-2 would start operations after the missile attack in the low threat regions determined by reconnaissance.

Now the Americans never had to deal with a country which has credible deterrence capability. Because Americans rely so much on their air power, Iran will just destroy the bases and carriers from which those mainly limited range assets operate, or disrupt the operations from the airbases.
In comparison with the task of the Americans, neutralizing Irans ballistic missile force, Irans task to neutralizing American airpower (via disrupting base/carrier operations) is several times easier.

If the serious assets, the airpower and air defense is rendered in-operational, a fleet of 2000 Shahed-129 with Sadid 40kg bombs (stored in underground bases) would be sufficient to project massive airpower throughout the region. This is just a example, but if the serious assets have fought their war, 2000 S-129 for maybe just 500 million $ could be sufficient for serious airpower. For 500m $ you can get some 8 Su-30.

The missile war will be the serious war, depending on the results ground forces and 2000 S-129 would do the rest, or ground forces and 8 Su-30.

 

[veg]

Against Iran, the Americans probably would just use Tomahawks, ATACMS and what else stand-off missiles they have in the first day.
They would reload their ships and fire more Tomahawks. Basically they would just do what Iran plans to do, pave the enemy with the missiles they have available first.
Iran is simply too dangerous to start the conflict with F-15, -16, -18, -22, -35 and with B-1 and -2. Their elite, means F-22, -35 and B-2 would start operations after the missile attack in the low threat regions determined by reconnaissance.

Now the Americans never had to deal with a country which has credible deterrence capability. Because Americans rely so much on their air power, Iran will just destroy the bases and carriers from which those mainly limited range assets operate, or disrupt the operations from the airbases.
In comparison with the task of the Americans, neutralizing Irans ballistic missile force, Irans task to neutralizing American airpower (via disrupting base/carrier operations) is several times easier.

If the serious assets, the airpower and air defense is rendered in-operational, a fleet of 2000 Shahed-129 with Sadid 40kg bombs (stored in underground bases) would be sufficient to project massive airpower throughout the region. This is just a example, but if the serious assets have fought their war, 2000 S-129 for maybe just 500 million $ could be sufficient for serious airpower. For 500m $ you can get some 8 Su-30.

The missile war will be the serious war, depending on the results ground forces and 2000 S-129 would do the rest, or ground forces and 8 Su-30.

Against Iran, the Americans probably would just use Tomahawks, ATACMS and what else stand-off missiles they have in the first day.
They would reload their ships and fire more Tomahawks. Basically they would just do what Iran plans to do, pave the enemy with the missiles they have available first.
Iran is simply too dangerous to start the conflict with F-15, -16, -18, -22, -35 and with B-1 and -2. Their elite, means F-22, -35 and B-2 would start operations after the missile attack in the low threat regions determined by reconnaissance.

Now the Americans never had to deal with a country which has credible deterrence capability. Because Americans rely so much on their air power, Iran will just destroy the bases and carriers from which those mainly limited range assets operate, or disrupt the operations from the airbases.
In comparison with the task of the Americans, neutralizing Irans ballistic missile force, Irans task to neutralizing American airpower (via disrupting base/carrier operations) is several times easier.

If the serious assets, the airpower and air defense is rendered in-operational, a fleet of 2000 Shahed-129 with Sadid 40kg bombs (stored in underground bases) would be sufficient to project massive airpower throughout the region. This is just a example, but if the serious assets have fought their war, 2000 S-129 for maybe just 500 million $ could be sufficient for serious airpower. For 500m $ you can get some 8 Su-30.

The missile war will be the serious war, depending on the results ground forces and 2000 S-129 would do the rest, or ground forces and 8 Su-30.

I fully agree with you with the use of Drones.

But it seems to me that Shahed 129 is more of a surveillance drone. US hit 2 Shahed 129 drones in Syria last month. Even Pakistan was able to detect and hit Shahed 129 easily with their JF-17. Hell even Syria was able to hit US drone (which was similar to Shahed 129) in Syria.

Therefore, perhaps it would be more beneficial if specialized combat Drones (like Sofar-e-Mahi) are used instead of Shahed 129, which seems to be only good against illiterate enemies like Taliban/ISIS/al-Qaida.

If Iran could produce small cheap STEALTH combat drones, then I believe it would be much better option than having 2 dozens of SU-30 fighter jets.

 

[PeeD]

...instead of Shahed 129, which seems to be only good against illiterate enemies like Taliban/ISIS/al-Qaida.

With your missile forces you degrade the enemies offensive and defensive capabilities to such a level that they effectively become like Taliban and ISIS, hence they can't even threaten your low cost assets anymore. No operational airbases to operate any surviving aircraft, no air defense systems operational that could reach out to above 15.000 feet.
If you are able to degrade the enemy in such a way, my theoretical example of 2000 Shahed-129 vs. 8 Su-30 becomes reality. Iran will never go for 2000 S-129, but this example teaches some lessons about airpower and missile power.

People have generally grown up with Americans fighting Iraqis, Serbs, Afghans and again Iraqis. Many have the impression that wars again the US look like that and heavily overestimate western airpower. Today Iran would fight a war which would look completely different, Iran is not a country that plays the game with the rules dictated by the enemy.

 

[VEVAK]

نظر من درمورد یارانه همون ندادنش هست اما درمورد خرج مملکت دوست گرامی شما انگار نمیدونی ما صرفا یک کشور وارد کننده هستیم اینارو باید با چی بخریمبرنج انواع اقسام کالاهای برقی و خیلی چیزهای دیگه و چون صادزرات خاصی جز نفت نیست و تولیدی در فرایند واردات صورت نمیگیره و عملا نرخ مالیات پایینه پس این پایین بودن نرخ مالیات با همین نفت جایگزین میشه بالاخره شهرسلزی هست و هزارویک مورد خرج دیگه که مردم سراسر دنیا با مالیات میدن اما ما با پول نفت داریم خرجش رو میدیم و چون تولید نداریم ارزش پول و میزان مالیات پایین مونده تا با مابقی پول نفت جایگزین بشه که متاسفانه اینده ای هم با این سرعت برای ایران چیشبینهی نمیشه مگر اینکه بتونیم به نحوی صادرات خیلی گسترده یعنی یه منبع مالی بزرگ پیداکنیم پس عملا همه پای پول نفت خوابیده ایم
درمورد خرج برای مباحث نظامی تنها درصورتی اتفاق میفته که یا خودمون درداخل تعارف رو بذاریم کنار و شرکت ها خصوصی بشن و تولید و خرید بسیار گسترده انجام بشه که ابتدا تولبید کاذب همرا با بدهی مشابه امریکا رخ میده و بعد از اون نرخ تولید واقعی میشه فایده اینکارهم اینه که الان وزارت دفاع برای خودش الیاژ توسعه میده پول خرج میکنه اما صزفا ازش موشک میسازه اگر خصوصی بشه همین یک خرج ممکنه جاهای دیگه هم به درد بخوره یا یه منبع پول بزرگ یا مالیات و افزایش نرخ خدمات با شیب تند یا افزایش فروش نفت داشته باشیم.یاهم به صادرات ثابت و پایدار همین سلاح دست پیداکنیم که اینم باتوجه به تحریم غیرممکنه
موارد دیگه مثلا صادرات اقلام غیر نظامی مدنظر نمیتونه باشه چون به دلیل نبود علم و بالا بودن هزینه تحقیق توسعه کیفیت کم و امثالهم فروش چندانی نخواهد داشت مگر با دامپینگ و درعین حال کنار گذاشتن دندون گردی کارخانه دارها که متاسفانه مسبب خیلی از مشکلاته بهمراه حمایت مالی دولت که شرکت زمین نخوره یا اینکه دولت خرج تحقیق توسعه رو در برخی قسمت ها بده یا وام های بی بهره و بسیار بلند مدت
درکل سرمایه نیاز داریم​

Baleh ma keshvar vared konandeh hasteem va agar dar hameen rah peesh beraveem keshvareh varedkonandeh khaheem mond!
Being one of the fastest growing countries in science & technology is useless when it's all on paper with theories, scale down models & prototypes!
Va balleh khaili as tarrof bazzi ha va parti bozi ha ro bayad gozasht kenar va sherkat ha bayad dollati ommomi boshand yani sherkat o dollat payehgozari mesozeh va bad ba gharadod bastan va toleed shekat ha ro meyari to boors Tehran va omoomishoon mikoni keh hamey mardom betonan to on sherkat ha sarmayehgozari konand va sood bebarand va modeeron javabgoo e sahamdoron shavand va ba ean kar parti bozi ha shakhsi barayeh sood hayeh shakhsi ro ta haddi az bayn mebari

If Qods Aviation is unable to produce UAV's as good as Shahed Aviation then they shouldn't get a contract just because they are the oldest producers in Iran & that's how you create competition to build superior products

Except for Saudi Arabia (that doesn't produce it's own weapons) all the countries on that list don't just have the largest military expenditures in the world but they are also the list of the top producers & technologically advanced counties in the world why? Because their products can compete globally! How did they get there? They got there because there is a direct correlation between their weapons expenditure and technological growth & production capability!

If Iran want's to be an exporter then it needs to be able to compete globally & the real root to get there as it has been with almost all these countries is with military R&D! If you invest in military robotics eventually that technology will go to the civilian sector and will turn to household robots & industrial robots, if you invest in optics, software, naval engines, Turbofan engines, avionics, communications, sensors,.....

As long as your continuously investing you defense budget in the most cutting edge technologies then that technology or weapon or part to build that weapon or materials & tools to build that weapon will find it's way to your civilian sector & that's when your able to produce products that can compete globally!

 

[Blue In Green]

Against Iran, the Americans probably would just use Tomahawks, ATACMS and what else stand-off missiles they have in the first day.
They would reload their ships and fire more Tomahawks. Basically they would just do what Iran plans to do, pave the enemy with the missiles they have available first.
Iran is simply too dangerous to start the conflict with F-15, -16, -18, -22, -35 and with B-1 and -2. Their elite, means F-22, -35 and B-2 would start operations after the missile attack in the low threat regions determined by reconnaissance.

Now the Americans never had to deal with a country which has credible deterrence capability. Because Americans rely so much on their air power, Iran will just destroy the bases and carriers from which those mainly limited range assets operate, or disrupt the operations from the airbases.
In comparison with the task of the Americans, neutralizing Irans ballistic missile force, Irans task to neutralizing American airpower (via disrupting base/carrier operations) is several times easier.

If the serious assets, the airpower and air defense is rendered in-operational, a fleet of 2000 Shahed-129 with Sadid 40kg bombs (stored in underground bases) would be sufficient to project massive airpower throughout the region. This is just a example, but if the serious assets have fought their war, 2000 S-129 for maybe just 500 million $ could be sufficient for serious airpower. For 500m $ you can get some 8 Su-30.

The missile war will be the serious war, depending on the results ground forces and 2000 S-129 would do the rest, or ground forces and 8 Su-30.

Does Iran have the industrial capabilities to produce 2,000 drones in a short period of time?

 

[Arminkh]

Does Iran have the industrial capabilities to produce 2,000 drones in a short period of time?

Judging by its car production capacity, yes. Even more.

 

[VEVAK]

Against Iran, the Americans probably would just use Tomahawks, ATACMS and what else stand-off missiles they have in the first day.
They would reload their ships and fire more Tomahawks. Basically they would just do what Iran plans to do, pave the enemy with the missiles they have available first.
Iran is simply too dangerous to start the conflict with F-15, -16, -18, -22, -35 and with B-1 and -2. Their elite, means F-22, -35 and B-2 would start operations after the missile attack in the low threat regions determined by reconnaissance.

Now the Americans never had to deal with a country which has credible deterrence capability. Because Americans rely so much on their air power, Iran will just destroy the bases and carriers from which those mainly limited range assets operate, or disrupt the operations from the airbases.
In comparison with the task of the Americans, neutralizing Irans ballistic missile force, Irans task to neutralizing American airpower (via disrupting base/carrier operations) is several times easier.

If the serious assets, the airpower and air defense is rendered in-operational, a fleet of 2000 Shahed-129 with Sadid 40kg bombs (stored in underground bases) would be sufficient to project massive airpower throughout the region. This is just a example, but if the serious assets have fought their war, 2000 S-129 for maybe just 500 million $ could be sufficient for serious airpower. For 500m $ you can get some 8 Su-30.

The missile war will be the serious war, depending on the results ground forces and 2000 S-129 would do the rest, or ground forces and 8 Su-30.

You comparing a Su-30 with a MALE UAV!

Shahed-129 fly under 20,000 ft making them easy targets for advanced AAA, MANPAD & low cost Air Defense systems! They are also extremely slow a Helicopter like the Super Cobra is almost twice as fast as a Shahed-129 so even helicopters can gun them down!
Iran's Shahed-129's also require an operator on the ground within ~250km of the target again not a simple task.
And lets say you program them and leave them on auto pilot if the U.S. sees 100 Shahed-129's coming at them they will simply send 10 A-10 to intercept and down them using guns before they can get within 100km and if a few slip threw other fighters, helicopters & finally Air Defense systems will take care of the rest

And if Iran had Su-30's they would strictly use them over Iranian Air Space for Air Defense not to mount an offensive!

US Tomahawks have a limited payload capacity no more than 1000lb (at best to penetrate an Aircraft bunker ) and they are not enough to penetrate deep underground bunkers so your wrong

US Tomahawks will go after Air Defenses, Coastal Missile bunkers & Iran's Air Force and they will clear a path to every Iranian Missile Base (We currently have about 50 main missile bases)
To destroy those bases they need to use bombs that are at least 4000lb each so they'll be using F-15 strike eagle escorted by F-22's and once they are assured most vital Air Defense systems are gone then they'll bring in B-2's
U.S. is more reliant on it's Air Force and their Tomahawks just as they did in Iraq will go after Iran's Air Force, Iran's Air Defense & Coastal Missiles just to clear a path for their Air Force
F-22's will be escorts, F-35's will focus on any Iranian Air Defense left on the ground with F-15's doing most of the heavy lifting & they'll only send stealth bombers in after the 1st wave of fighters but after the Tomahawks the 1st wave will be with fighter mainly because of their speed and stealth bombers will come in only on the 2nd run against targets that didn't get destroyed the 1st time around

 

[PeeD]

@VEVAK

- Traditionally an enemy with degraded forces is not able to reach out above 15k feet nor having early warning --> at this point something like a S-129 becomes effective.

- Ground based data-link is what is used now. UAV airborne relais are what will be used in near future and satellite communication in future.

- In the degraded capability scenario, the enemy has no operable A-10 or fighter aircraft. You mentioned helicopters, they have higher serviceability (no need for airfield) in this scenario but are useless to hunt MALE UAVs, mainly because early warning would be already neutralized.

- I never said Tomahawks can take out Irans mountain missile bases. But they take out airfields, aircrafts in lighter HAS, fuel depots, weapons depots. Basically anything that is not hardened. In Irans case with its BM arsenal, also heaviest hardened airbases can be taken out. Just imagine what sub munition warheads cause on a airbase, alone the debris on the runway.
Irans missile bases just have to survive the initial attack, find some minutes to move out the mobile missile teams to unknown locations and the missile force becomes active.

- Tomahawks will take out all static targets, from Shah era early warning radar stations to Shah era airbases etc.
They won't take out 3rd Khordad SAM teams, Matla ol Fajr-2 long range radars, Ghadr mobile missile teams and troposcatter communication vehicles. This are targets that could be anywhere, can't be tracked because always on the move.
The airbase you want to station your modern fighters will be a static target and the question is only how many Tomahawks it can fend off and take until it goes off.

- Americans won't send F-15 with bunker busters if there are 3rd Khordad teams active in the operation area. Their doctrine is to have a SEAD/DEAD campaign first, before they send such vulnerable assets in. F-22 escort does not change this, F-22 and -35 would rather try their best as part of the SEAD/DEAD campaign. You are right that the B-2 would wait until that campaign is over, so B-1 and B-52. The funny part is just that no SEAD/DEAD assets such as F-15/-16/-18/-22/-35 would be able to operate because no operation from bases close enough to Iran is possible (BM and CM missile attacks against them). So this all is a non-starter in Irans case.
Of course if Irans missile forces fail or greatly under-perform, then all your scenarios with bunker busting F-15 and SEAD operation F-35 could become reality.


@BlueInGreen2

2000 Shahed-129 was a theoretical exercise to compare costs and effects. At the moment Iran imports the engines for the S-129, real cost effective volume production with the price I assumed should not be possible. But I highly doubt its Irans goal to mass produce S-129 in huge numbers. Just wanted to compare a traditional airforce asset to a novel airpower asset for a scenario of a degraded enemy (by upper tier weapons = missiles).

 

[mse21]

@VEVAK

خوندمش
حمل بر بی احترامی نباشه اما شما اشکالت اینه که فکر میکنی این چیزایی که گفتی قراره با سرمایه گذاری وزارت دفاع ساخته بشه درصورتی که برعکسه باید شرکت خصوصی بشه اول بعدا این چیزا ساخته بشن.یعنی نه اینکه صرفا سرمایبه وزارت دفاع باشه برعکس هم باید باشه
البته چیزیه که من فهمیدم اگر اشتباس بفرمایید​

 

[Blue In Green]

@VEVAK

- Traditionally an enemy with degraded forces is not able to reach out above 15k feet nor having early warning --> at this point something like a S-129 becomes effective.

- Ground based data-link is what is used now. UAV airborne relais are what will be used in near future and satellite communication in future.

- In the degraded capability scenario, the enemy has no operable A-10 or fighter aircraft. You mentioned helicopters, they have higher serviceability (no need for airfield) in this scenario but are useless to hunt MALE UAVs, mainly because early warning would be already neutralized.

- I never said Tomahawks can take out Irans mountain missile bases. But they take out airfields, aircrafts in lighter HAS, fuel depots, weapons depots. Basically anything that is not hardened. In Irans case with its BM arsenal, also heaviest hardened airbases can be taken out. Just imagine what sub munition warheads cause on a airbase, alone the debris on the runway.
Irans missile bases just have to survive the initial attack, find some minutes to move out the mobile missile teams to unknown locations and the missile force becomes active.

- Tomahawks will take out all static targets, from Shah era early warning radar stations to Shah era airbases etc.
They won't take out 3rd Khordad SAM teams, Matla ol Fajr-2 long range radars, Ghadr mobile missile teams and troposcatter communication vehicles. This are targets that could be anywhere, can't be tracked because always on the move.
The airbase you want to station your modern fighters will be a static target and the question is only how many Tomahawks it can fend off and take until it goes off.

- Americans won't send F-15 with bunker busters if there are 3rd Khordad teams active in the operation area. Their doctrine is to have a SEAD/DEAD campaign first, before they send such vulnerable assets in. F-22 escort does not change this, F-22 and -35 would rather try their best as part of the SEAD/DEAD campaign. You are right that the B-2 would wait until that campaign is over, so B-1 and B-52. The funny part is just that no SEAD/DEAD assets such as F-15/-16/-18/-22/-35 would be able to operate because no operation from bases close enough to Iran is possible (BM and CM missile attacks against them). So this all is a non-starter in Irans case.
Of course if Irans missile forces fail or greatly under-perform, then all your scenarios with bunker busting F-15 and SEAD operation F-35 could become reality.


@BlueInGreen2

2000 Shahed-129 was a theoretical exercise to compare costs and effects. At the moment Iran imports the engines for the S-129, real cost effective volume production with the price I assumed should not be possible. But I highly doubt its Irans goal to mass produce S-129 in huge numbers. Just wanted to compare a traditional airforce asset to a novel airpower asset for a scenario of a degraded enemy (by upper tier weapons = missiles).

Very bleak prospect of an American attack on Iran. Seems like a loss from the onset.

Eh, I'm guessing there are things that Iran has that the public don't know about but the US DOD does and that is what is preventing them and has prevented them from an all out attack on Iran.