India's best & brightest students dominate the world ranking...

[Götterdämmerung]

Errr this was expected wasn't it? Besides folks from rural schools of Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh aren't India's best and brightest. Its unfair to make them do the test in English.

Secondly Indian students probably don't even care about this test. Knowing Indian students, if it is not going to reflect in your year 10 marks or year 12 marks no one will care about it. If the education board decides to give 5-10% weighting to PISA scores towards year 10 or year 12 marks, then watch these scores shoot up.

If you have to compre the best and brightest compare the kids from Delhi to Shanghai or Kids from Mumbai to Shanghai or kids from Kota

Enjoy your trolling and bragging rights in the mean time

I thought that all Indians were fluent in English until last week I had to call a state department (Dood and Drug Safety) in India to get some information about GMP (Good Manufactoring Practices) in the pharma and food processing industry. First I got a completly wrong number from their website and was connected to a hospital in New Delhi. After a lengthly research I got the right number but the person at the other end didn't speak a word English, well, he did say hello and that's it.

But I was wondering in which language the tests were conducted in India. Here in Germany it's obviously in German. and how come the OECD has choosen the two states and not Mumbai or New Dehli? Any clue?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Errr this was expected wasn't it? Besides folks from rural schools of Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh aren't India's best and brightest. Its unfair to make them do the test in English.

Secondly Indian students probably don't even care about this test. Knowing Indian students, if it is not going to reflect in your year 10 marks or year 12 marks no one will care about it. If the education board decides to give 5-10% weighting to PISA scores towards year 10 or year 12 marks, then watch these scores shoot up.

If you have to compre the best and brightest compare the kids from Delhi to Shanghai or Kids from Mumbai to Shanghai or kids from Kota

Enjoy your trolling and bragging rights in the mean time

I don't think the test was in English.

Shanghai is actually below average in education. The reason they appear better (i.e. higher college attendence) is because they get subsidies. Let me explain.

In China, every province must reserve a certain percentage of seats in public universities for people from the native province, no exception. The problem is, Shanghai and Beijing have an unusual concentration of public universities, including famous ones, and those all reserve seats for people from the native province - Shanghai and Beijing.

Other provinces have the same thing, but there might be 400,000 people competing for 100,000 seats at public universities, because there's only 10 public universities in an entire province with population 50 million, vs. Shanghai's 30+ public universities with population 23 million.

 

[Roybot]

I thought that all Indians were fluent in English until last week I had to call a state department (Dood and Drug Safety) in India to get some information about GMP (Good Manufactoring Practices) in the pharma and food processing industry. First I got a completly wrong number from their website and was connected to a hospital in New Delhi. After a lengthly research I got the right number but the person at the other end didn't speak a word English, well, he did say hello and that's it.

But I was wondering in which language the tests were conducted in India. Here in Germany it's obviously in German. and how come the OECD has choosen the two states and not Mumbai or New Dehli? Any clue?

Obviously not everyone is fluent in English. I would say about 15-20% have good command and can have a conversation in English, 30% can somehow "manage", and the rest don't know much English at all.

The tests held in India were conducted in English(as far as I know, trying to find out now). Only two states decided to participate. Students from all over India will take the 2012 tests, which will give us a bigger and more diverse sample. But even then the mean score will be quite low for India, mainly because of the language barrier. But even if say 15-20% of total sample get very high score that should be good enough for a huge country like India.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

I don't think the test was in English.

Shanghai is actually below average in education. The reason they appear better (i.e. higher college attendence) is because they get subsidies. Let me explain.

In China, every province must reserve a certain percentage of seats in public universities for people from the native province, no exception. The problem is, Shanghai and Beijing have an unusual concentration of public universities, including famous ones, and those all reserve seats for people from the native province - Shanghai and Beijing.

Other provinces have the same thing, but there might be 400,000 people competing for 100,000 seats at public universities, because there's only 10 public universities in an entire province with population 50 million, vs. Shanghai's 30+ public universities with population 23 million.

This is quite unfair to the one who come from a populous province but has a better test score than a Shanghai student.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

This is quite unfair to the one who come from a populous province but has a better test score than a Shanghai student.

yes it is. the college entrance exam is therefore extremely selective in provinces like Sichuan, Jiangsu and Hunan.

there are private universities which take almost anyone, but they are usually lower quality and expensive.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Obviously not everyone is fluent in English(as far as I know, trying to find out now). I would say about 15-20% have good command and can have a conversation in English, 30% can somehow "manage", and the rest don't know much English at all.

The tests held in India were conducted in English. Only two states decided to participate. Students from all over India will take the 2012 tests, which will give us a bigger and more diverse sample. But even then the mean score will be quite low for India, mainly because of the language barrier. But even if say 15-20% of total sample get very high score that should be good enough for a huge country like India.

I got the impression that Indians are fuent in English because the media keeps saying that India has a language advantage over the Chinese because Indians all speak English. So how come that only 50 % of Indians have an acceptable command of English when a lot of your media, education, politics as well as business are done in English. Here in Germany, you rarely see anything in English besides the tourist spots and a few English words used in our daily life.

Why doesn't India conduct the test in the respective mother tongue of the state like all other participating countries?

 

[Roybot]

I don't think the test was in English.

Shanghai is actually below average in education. The reason they appear better (i.e. higher college attendence) is because they get subsidies. Let me explain.

In China, every province must reserve a certain percentage of seats in public universities for people from the native province, no exception. The problem is, Shanghai and Beijing have an unusual concentration of public universities, including famous ones, and those all reserve seats for people from the native province - Shanghai and Beijing.

Other provinces have the same thing, but there might be 400,000 people competing for 100,000 seats at public universities, because there's only 10 public universities in an entire province with population 50 million, vs. Shanghai's 30+ public universities with population 23 million.

Fair enough, although the test is for 15 year old school kids, not university/college students. Am guessing Shanghai would have some of the best schools in China?

 

[Götterdämmerung]

yes it is. the college entrance exam is therefore extremely selective in provinces like Sichuan, Jiangsu and Hunan.

there are private universities which take almost anyone, but they are usually lower quality and expensive.

I see, but it's still unfair. The best and brightest should always get a chance to study!

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Fair enough, although the test is for 15 year old school kids, not university/college students. Am guessing Shanghai would have some of the best schools in China?

The best universities, but the high school students have less motivation because they can get in through the reservations with much lower scores than outside students.

If you gave this test in rural Sichuan, the scores might be even higher.

I see, but it's still unfair. The best and brightest should always get a chance to study!

They get a chance, just that they have less of a chance. There's also a quota for outside students.

A worrying trend has been the reduction of rural students as a percentage of university students

http://news.xinhuanet.com/edu/2009-01/23/content_10705426.htm

In the past, 60% of rural students chose to attend high school for college preparation.

Today, only 25% choose to do so.

http://nf.nfdaily.cn/epaper/nfnc/content/20110519/Articel05002FM.htm

In the 80's, 30% of college students were from rural areas. Today only 17.7% are.

 

[Roybot]

I got the impression that Indians are fuent in English because the media keeps saying that India has a language advantage over the Chinese because Indians all speak English. So how come that only 50 % of Indians have an acceptable command of English when a lot of your media, education, politics as well as business are done in English. Here in Germany, you rarely see anything in English besides the tourist spots and a few English words used in our daily life.

Why doesn't India conduct the test in the respective mother tongue of the state like all other participating countries?

50% is a lot of people mind you, 600 million. So India does have the language advantage. On the other hand, you ll be lucky to find someone proficient in English outside the major cities of China.

I don't think India conducts the test or has any say in the matter(being a non OECD state), the tests are conducted by OECD.

Besides this was the first time, they might conduct the test in respective mother tongue"s" in the 2012 test. It will be a nightmare for the people who conduct the test though, as they d have to make the test in at least 10-15 different languages.

 

[dearone4u_22]

You may wonder wtf, but be patient my friends and finish reading this:


OECD PISA 2009 Global Ranking:

READING RANKING

1 Shanghai China (556)
2 Korea (539)
3 Finland (536)
4 HongKong China (533)
5 Singapore (526)

6 Canada (524)
7 New Zealand (521)
8 Japan (520)
9 Australia (515)
10 Netherlands (508)

11 Belgium (506)
12 Norway (503)
13 Estonia (501)
14 Switzerland (501)
15 Poland (500)
16 Iceland (500)
17 US (500)
18 Liechtenstein (499)
19 Sweden (497)
20 Germany (497)


21 Ireland (496)
22 France (496)
23 Taipei, Chinese (495)
24 Denmark (495)
25 UK (494)
26 Hungary (494)
27 Portugal (489)
28 Macao, China (487)
29 Italy (486)
30 Latvia (484)

…

66 (Last) Kyrgyzstan ( 314)



MATHS RANKING:

1 Shanghai China (600)
2 Singapore (562)
3 HongKong China (555)
4 Korea (546)
5 Taipei Chinese (543)

6 Finland (541)
7 Liechtenstein (536)
8 Switzerland (534)
9 Japan (529)
10 Canada (527)

11 Netherlands (526)
12 Macao China (525)
13 New Zealand (519)
14 Belgium (515)
15 Australia (514)
16 Germany (513)
17 Estonia (512)
18 Iceland (507)
19 Denmark (503)
20 Slovenia (501)

21 Norway (498)
22 France (497)
23 Slovak Rep (497)
24 Austria (496)
25 Poland (495)
26 Sweden (494)
27 Czech Rep (493)
28 UK (492)
29 Hungary (490)
30 Luxembourg (489)

,,,

64 Peru ( 365)
65 Panama ( 360)

66 (last) Kyrgyzstan (331)



SCIENCE RANKING:

1 Shanghai China (575)
2 Finland (554)
3 HongKong China (549)
4 Singapore (542)
5 Japan (539)

6 Korea (538)
7 New Zealand (532)
8 Canada (529)
9 Estonia (528)
10 Australia (527)


11 Netherlands (522)
12 Taipei Chinese (520)
13 Germany (520)
14 Liechtenstein (520)
15 Switzerland (517)
16 UK (514)
17 Slovenia (512)
18 Macao China (511)
19 Poland (508)
20 Ireland (508)

21 Belgium (507)
22 Hungary (503)
23 US (502)
24 Czech Rep (500)
25 Norway (500)
26 Denmark (499)
27 France (498)
28 Iceland (496)
29 Sweden (495)
30 Austria (494)

…

66 (Last) Kyrgyzstan (330)


Above is the Global PISA ranking as per the last year (http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/54/12/46643496.pdf)



I was wondering what were India’s PISA scores a year ago when results of most countries were released… today WE HAVE THEM!!! Himachal Pradesh and Tamil Nadu of India.



Let me give my readers a brief intro of why these two regions of India :

OECD has tried very hard to showcase the best and the brightest of India therefore has chosen these 2 regions – the cradles of “global IT high tech” and “maths geniuese” Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh, representing India in PISA. Tamil Nadu is the most urbanised state of India’s 28 states and 4th largest contributor to India’s GDP, while Himachal Pradesh has the highest per capita income in India and ranks 2nd in terms of least corrupt states there.



Tamil Nadu scores

Reading: “significantly higher than those for Himachal Pradesh-India and Kyrgyzstan, but lower than all other participants in PISA 2009 and PISA 2009+.” - In other words: No 3. from the bottom of global ranking

Maths: “mean score on the PISA mathematical literacy scale as the same observed in Himachal Pradesh-India, Panama and Peru” – in other words, No 3. . from the bottom of global ranking

Science: 16% of students are proficient , compared with OECD average of 82 % - in other words, more or the same No 3. . from the bottom of global ranking




Himachal Pradesh scores

Reading: “ the lowest average reading score observed in PISA 2009, along with Kyrgyzstan”

Maths: “ statistically the same as observed in Tamil Nadu-India and Kyrgyzstan, only 12% 12of students are proficient" – global #1, from the bottom of ranking.

Science: “This was the lowest average science score observed in PISA 2009 and PISA 2009+, along with that of Kyrgyzstan” ... "only 11% of students are proficient compared with OECD mean of 82% "- Global top 3 then, from the bottom of ranking



In conclusion: India's best and brightest dominate Reading, Maths and Science global PISA ranking, well, if you count from the bottom of the list

Where are the "Indian Maths Geniues"? They must have been on hunger stike, eh?


Indians are really, I mean really , good at talking:


A short while ago in an event held at the World Bank, Mr. Kapil Sibal, Minister of Human Resource Development in India, boasted to the representatives of the whole world that he is striving to use education to transform India into a global center for research and development and technological innovation.


Well, just when you think one can’t get more @#$%@^%&, with this PISA release today India beats the mother of all odds and delivers you not only a “global knowledge superpower” and but also a world-class “Champion”!


( Source: ACER eNews )

I thought IT industry was in Bangalore but if PISA says its in tamil nadu .....may be my geography is wrong..
And i thought best mathematician in india are the chennaites considering that was the source of maths origin in india
But what the heck congrats china....
Once again u prove numbers and medals matter the most .....everyone knows hows much effort chinese parents takes to make their children this capable.....

 

[Götterdämmerung]

They get a chance, just that they have less of a chance. There's also a quota for outside students.

A worrying trend has been the reduction of rural students as a percentage of university students

??? ????_?_»

In the past, 60% of rural students chose to attend high school for college preparation.

Today, only 25% choose to do so.

???:??½ ?-20110519

In the 80's, 30% of college students were from rural areas. Today only 17.7% are.

There should be equal opportunity for all students, regardless where they come from.

Do you know why less rural students aim for higher education. This is definitely not a positive trend.

 

[Speeder 2]

PISA scores (global PISA ranking) are of particular importance to educators, multinationals, business developers of ALL countries in the world because the scores give an insight of relative technology and science competitiveness of a country in the near future, given the test recipients are statistically valid average 15-year-olds in schools, who then will represent the general level of a nation's sci-tech force (and other areas as well for that matter) in 10, 20 and 30 years.

Both China and India were chosen as the first-time participants of PISA in 2009, albeit only focused on some well known key regions of the two countries. Shanghai Metro tops global league table on all 3 categories by a wide margin particularly in Maths - no surprise there. OECD also noted last year that in about 7 or 8 other provinces tested in China (results to be released soon), the scores were similar to Shanghai ( all well above OECD mean) despite of the fact that these provinces are much less developed than SH, some of them even "relatively improverished" in the words of OECD spokeman, Schneider is his name I guess.

Shining India's results were also eagerly anticipated by the global audiences in light of its self-proclaimed "global knowledge superpower" and "global high tech outsourcing" statue, at least that's where it wants to be... I noticed that in even some unknown little blogs in South America such as Porto Rico, educators talked about India's imminent PISA scores release just weeks ago.

India's scores were just released by ACER this morning in Asia (less than 18 hours). The fact that no major western main stream media citing it indicates the sheer PCness and relunctance of spoiling their long-cooked fantacy of "mass immigration of high-tech force from India". Otherwise, people would likely start to question these liberal PC authorities that "high tech Indian gurus? but even Porto Ricans (whose scores were also just released) are on average more *guru* than Indians".

Given some time however, I reckon that educators of most countries would start to blog this news in more detailed way after the initial "shock"- quite natual results that fairly represent India's upper level potential in my (and most neutral observers') view though, since both these two regions are the most developed and "high tech" posterboys of India.

In a military forum like this, we often see technology / weapon developer names such as DRDO, HAL on the one side, and NASA, NORINCO, EADS, etc on the other end... PISA scores enable one to take a glipmse at, in a generalised way though, the key reason why one can not make a decent rifle after 60 years' trial & error, while some others just keep on scoring...

 

[redhat]

China has proven to be historically weak in mathematics and has a very very low IQ among ancient civilizations.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Stupid Troll.