What's new

India’s Aircraft Carriers: A Giant Waste of Time?

Where is the source URL?




Very astute observation of the writer who is unable to differentiate between his elbow and the rear! 45 KUBs for INS Vikramaditya right now!

@randomradio @Mustang06 You will enjoy this one:enjoy:



The writer absolutely has no clue:crazy:




Cool, if you say so:agree:




:hitwall:



PAF would be waiting for a CBG of IN to come, instead of defending/undertaking offensive strikes of it's own to try and maintain control of own airspace:coffee:



Wow!

India will not fight China, Pakistan has nukes. Let's all disband our armed forces:lol:

Er, .... ooops! I forgot, employment has to be created:rofl:



Access denial barrier?:cheesy:


@Joe Shearer @punit @Nilgiri @jbgt90 @nair @Viny @SrNair @Dash @Sam. @banvanaxl @Surya 1 @SpArK @MilSpec

Tagging you guys for a smile and a quite laugh:lol:



4 would be ideal (and is aimed for), no doubt.




Which, the author, has clearly failed to understand.



Don't encourage trolling/baiting by responding. Ignore and move on.

I didn't even bothered to read the article after reading title. Aircraft carrier are very vital power projection. It has proved its worth its in 1971 war by constantly bombing enemy. Uselees article not worth reading.

The Indian navy will always be far more powerful than the PN, but Pakistan is now beginning to build a good surface fleet and with it submarine arm will make it far harder for the IN to choke Pakistan's waterways. However if push comes to shove the Indian Navy might decide to take significant losses in order to arrive outside Karachi, Pakistan's largest metropolis, meaning India will have the upper hand.
Against China, forget about it. The PLAN vastly out numbers the IN in quantity and has a quality edge as well. They currently field more frigates than the IN has corvettes, frigates and destroyers put together....

Had I been in PN decision making body, i would have focused on good submarines. I see a little utility of surfaceship of Pakistan in indo pak war scenario. India's surface ships are so powerful for pa to come up with anything comparable.
 
. . . .
I think you didn't even bother to read the link I post. They already think of such problem and there is a reason why it's called real time tracking.. let me repeat. It's not difficult to locate a big CVBG group on ocean anymore. We are not more in the 80s. Both US , NATO and China has means to locate each other CVBG group as long as satellite is intact.

There is a reason why when China successfully shot down a satellite in 2007 that send a chill and become a big issue to US.

Actually, it's quite difficult to locate an Aircraft Group in the Oceans.

As I said before, REAL TIME TRACKING does NOT exist, the core requirement for real time tracking is you can automatically identify the target and move asset into the area to survey it, which in current day technology term, its impossible.

Satellite give you a pin hole view of an area and even with high optical zoom and high level positioning equipment, you can only look at a fraction of the ocean at any time.

Before you comment on how stupid my word is. Try this

Get a drone, and fly it onto a road, pick up a car randomly and try to follow it using your camera on the drone only. You will see how hard it is to track a moving target, now imagine, you need to look for a particular car, not just a random car, and your drone is not under your control and will go by a certain paths/orbits.

And again, US does not "Freak Out" about China testing Anti-Satellite missile, you cannot hit them all because there are always going to be some satellite behind the earth at where you are, and there are some Satellite that positioned outside your missile range. And also, Military Satellite have countermeasure to deal with such things.

Well whats the maximum number of ships China has actually projected (in peacetime) anywhere past the eastern island chain (where much higher level intel sharing is already an issue)...much less into the Indian ocean (past the chokepoints controlled by not so friendly countries...who also have their contribution in intel sharing with broader networks)...esp with all the requisite support and logistics needed?

A lot of this is stuff you only figure out after you have done it at some level to begin with. Then comes the actual war modelling when things don't go to plan compared to the peacetime exercise. This is all very much like the real time logistics that do not favour China at all in the Tibetan plateau+Himalayan mountain passes in the way w.r.t South Asia.

@jhungary @gambit @Indos @AUSTERLITZ @Vergennes your thoughts?

The problem with Chinese Navy is not their number, they have more than enough number to break thru any chain, however, the core problem they have is bases that can replenish. In fact, the PLAN have more ship than they have base for replenishment.

How easy to break open first and second chain? Very easy, you go from China, then one port and then the other, Then you can break open onto the island chain and go where you want, however, if China is in war, that is a different story, port outside China will close unless they are Chinese Port or the country that host that port is allied with the Chinese in war. The problem with Chinese navy is that they don't have enough friendly port outside China, there are a few location that I would say will open to China regardless, Pakistan and North Korea, the thing is, both country is bordering China, which mean their port will not give Chinese much advantage on expedition warfare.

Let's say if US is at war with China, then about 2/3 of the country around where China want to go to break out of first/second island chain is either neutral or against China. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore would be against China (on the account of they are allied to the US) while Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippine, Thailand are neutral toward China, they may not open their port to Chinese ship in a case of Chinese-US war

Logistically, China is not geared for blue water adventure, with a very small (actually tiny) if you compare them to the US, US have about 180 to 200 logistic ship (up to 2000 if the US decided to federalise the Merchant Marine) and around 78 overseas bases, while China have 18 replenishment ships, that number is alright if China have overseas bases litter all over the world (like the UK and France) but the fact is, PLAN don't have any overseas bases, which mean all their supplies, in case of war, would have to be brought in directly from China, if so, 18 ship is not remotely enough.

That is the major drawback of Chinese Navy, not their technology, not their number, and if this is not solved, China will always going to be Coastal Navy because if they venture out of their supply line, they will be stranded out there.
 
.
4 would be ideal (and is aimed for), no doubt.

Actually IN preferred 5 - 7 nos and IN is on the way to have atleast 4 as of now

BoB (Kolkatta/Chennai/AN) - 1
AS (Mumbai) - 1
IOR (Cochin/Lakshadeep) - 1
INS Varsha - 1
INS Kadamba - 1
 
.
Actually IN preferred 5 - 7 nos and IN is on the way to have atleast 4 as of now

BoB (Kolkatta/Chennai/AN) - 1
AS (Mumbai) - 1
IOR (Cochin/Lakshadeep) - 1
INS Varsha - 1
INS Kadamba - 1

o_O

BoB 1 on station
AS 1 on station
1 on outbound for rotation (when due)
1 invariably as reserve.

That is what I remember as being the aim
 
.
There is no chance of an Indian Carrier even coming close to Karachi. Pakistan will NOT hesitate to send a battlefield size nuke exploding near a carrier group which will take out the whole Carrier groups. Pakistan has these nukes and is willing to use them. People and specially delusional Indians thinking that Pakistan will NOT do this due to the "goodness" of its heart or some Western imposed morality are living in a La, La land.
 
.
With the size of carriers like Vishal you will need 6-12 hits to be in with a good chance of sinking the giant carrier

Point is not to sink vishal or any other carrier. Sinking a carrier is almost an impossible task. Mission is to make it unable to take further part in war (unable to launch strikes) , and make it spend some 3-4 years in the shipyard.

With a CBVG with 60-70 fighters onboard, India can divert a lot of Pakistani resources on it's far west near the Gulf. By forcing Pakistan to divert so many forces to deal with the carrier group, India will have a much easier time fighting the Pakistanis on the Western border

Thats why Pakistan need atleast 3 layers of airforce based (9-10 bases combine) in 300 km of sea. I can see indian airforce attacking in (3-4 formations of 5-8 fighters each) from eastern border (sindh border) and 3-4+ formations of fighters from CBG simultaneously. If we can avert/fail such an attack then we are good. Pakistan badly need more airbases in sindh amd balochistan.
 
. .
This is all very much like the real time logistics that do not favour China at all in the Tibetan plateau+Himalayan mountain passes in the way w.r.t South Asia.

Absolutely limiting to this.

There remain only two points of entries into Indian Ocean - Malacca and Sunda Straits.

The former is too shallow to permit submarines to move about without being tracked and the latter is also heavily monitored in tiered fashion.

All the best for PLAN to be able to sail through unscathed in case of hostilities with India with intact replenishment vessels.

Having said that, the probability of PLAN to actually interfere with Indian operations in case of an escalation with Pakistan, is also very remote. Apart from Intelligence sharing and support in terms of calls for end to hostilities, China will be limited merely to provision of arms and equipment till the actual hostilities. Then, being a 'responsible power' and 'member of P5 in UN' it shall merely ask all parties to end hostilities and return to negotiating table. Of course, any move into Bay of Bengal will have US and Russians keeping a 'persuasive' eye as it does not remain in US' or Russia's interest for China to intervene against India.
 
.
o_O

BoB 1 on station
AS 1 on station
1 on outbound for rotation (when due)
1 invariably as reserve.

That is what I remember as being the aim

INS Versha & INS Kadamba are yet to reach its final phase, so IN will put-up papers for only 3-4 ACs, let the projects to complete then tell me about only 4 ACs theory. Matter of fact, I work in a valve body manufacturing industry and the way private companies like L&T & RNEL and accumulating data regarding production capacity of casting industries makes me feel that those fellows have plans in hand to execute.

IN is dreaming very big, that's why they more inclined towards indigenization which will enable them to force future Govt to give priority to them. Chabahar & UAE ports are one of the few strategies for forcing the Govt to fund itself to evolve into 200+ ships navy.
 
. .
No problem. India is making missiles that can hit targets from 402 million kilometers away.. These missiles will be stationed on her Mars bases and the initial tests show that the accuracy is within millimeters.. Also, these Indian missiles are stealthy enough to evade not only radar, but naked eye even when they are within visual range. On top of that, the missiles travel at 0.5 times the speed of light so can reach Pakistan within maximum 23 minutes..
 
.
There is no chance of an Indian Carrier even coming close to Karachi. Pakistan will NOT hesitate to send a battlefield size nuke exploding near a carrier group which will take out the whole Carrier groups. Pakistan has these nukes and is willing to use them. People and specially delusional Indians thinking that Pakistan will NOT do this due to the "goodness" of its heart or some Western imposed morality are living in a La, La land.


captain-picard.jpg
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom