India May Hand Over Next Six Submarines Order To A Private Shipyard

[Skull and Bones]

My guess is 8* 533 mm torpedo tubes( total 40 torpedos), 6 VLS with (18/24 Brahmos/Nirbhay/Klub).

There won't be VLS afaik.

 

[kurup]

It is awesome to know that we have 4 public and 3 private sector capable of building Submarine. Once we build very advance submarine like Arihant, Scorpene, and Kilo class along with HDW in india, we shall have the know how of best in the world submarines. We can hope to be a country leading in this area. We have awesome weapons on these platforms as well. We shall have K-15, K4, Nirbhay, SL Brahmos and long range torpedo. These are awesome weapons in their class and will dare our enemies. A3 SLBM and K-5 will also join by the end of this decade or in the binning of next decade to make indian navy a blue water navy in real sense.



L & T have made a significant progress in this submarine technology. Arihant was also constructed in L & T. My friends were there in construction.

Currently one russian design submarine work is going on in full pace on 24*7 basis. The dia sub is 10 m. 3 meter long cells are fabricated. They have an excellent QA-QC system to check the quality of fabrication and welding in place.

Which Russian submarine and for whom ??

 

[Omega007]

My guess is 8* 533 mm torpedo tubes( total 40 torpedos), 6 VLS with (18/24 Brahmos/Nirbhay/Klub).

Then in my opinion, the size and weight of the SSNs will have to be enlarged to an extant if they are looking for such a massive weapon load.By the way,if they are planning to attach the same silos from the Arihant project,then the missile load will count will be more than what you have proposed,at least if we go by this following diagram :

 

[Roman 12]

L & T have made a significant progress in this submarine technology. Arihant was also constructed in L & T. My friends were there in construction.

Currently one russian design submarine work is going on in full pace on 24*7 basis. The dia sub is 10 m. 3 meter long cells are fabricated. They have an excellent QA-QC system to check the quality of fabrication and welding in place.

Yes I know they will be getting the order for sure.
This will make our country to have diverse ports in different regions of our country able to make submarines with high technology absorption.
That's why L&T with its experience and the port in their posession is very big and perfectly suitable to Carry out the construction of big submarines mentioned in 75I.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Currently a russian designed Submarine is build at L & T

Currently one russian design submarine work is going on in full pace on 24*7 basis. The dia sub is 10 m. 3 meter long cells are fabricated. They have an excellent QA-QC system to check the quality of fabrication and welding in place

Well beam length (width) and submerged tonnage
Typhoon - 23m Submerged 48k tonnes
Borei - 13.5m submerged 24k tonnes
Delta IV 12.5m submerged 18.2k Tonnes
Akula 13.6m Submerged 13.8k tonnes
Sierra 14.2m submerged 10.4k tonnes
Source - The world's biggest submarines - Naval Technology
Yasen 15m submerged 13.8k tonnes

Earlier Charlie Class I and II had 10 m beams which was rumoured to have a similar beam length in ATV project.

BTW Victor III also has a beam of 10m (33ft) [Project 671RTM Shchuka (Pike)] submerged 7250 tonnes Vitor III got famous for its small role in The world is not enough (bond movie)

Hari bhai, any chance its not our N project work in progress? or if its a different sub, is it inner hull for a sub? Any details..

 

[kaykay]

There won't be VLS afaik.

Thats a bit hard to believe as we are looking for VLS in project-75I ssks than theres no way we won't go for same in much bigger and powerful ssn.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Thats a bit hard to believe as we are looking for VLS in project-75I ssks than theres no way we won't go for same in much bigger and powerful ssn.

The primary concern is stealth, and having VLS compromise on the diving depth of the sub for required structural modifications.

 

[kaykay]

Then in my opinion, the size and weight of the SSNs will have to be enlarged to an extant if they are looking for such a massive weapon load.By the way,if they are planning to attach the same silos from the Arihant project,then the missile load will count will be more than what you have proposed,at least if we go by this following diagram :
View attachment 264162

Hmm. 8 torpedo tubes is a bit too much but then 6 is very much possible with atleast 30 charges as even Arihant has that many.

 

[Omega007]

Hmm. 8 torpedo tubes is a bit too much but then 6 is very much possible with atleast 30 charges as even Arihant has that many.

Well,I wasn't particularly commenting about the number of torpedo tubes,8 seems quite reasonable for an SSN. My comment was in view of the VLS tubes.

 

[kaykay]

The primary concern is stealth, and having VLS compromise on the diving depth of the sub for required structural modifications.

Yeah but having a SSN without VLS seems odd. Do Chinese SSNs carry VLS? Virginia class carry 12 vls though.

Well,I wasn't particularly commenting about the number of torpedo tubes,8 seems quite reasonable for an SSN. My comment was in view of the VLS tubes.

Okay. Though even if we won't get VLS, torpedo tubes will be able to launch cruise missiles. If not VLS, I hope we get atleast 8 torpedo tubes with 40 charges ( 10 Brahmos/Nirbhay, rest torpedos/mines). We can only speculate at the moment though.

 

[Omega007]

Yeah but having a SSN without VLS seems odd. Do Chinese SSNs carry VLS? Virginia class carry 12 vls though.

I guess you are mistaking an SSN for an SSGN.

Okay. Though even if we won't get VLS, torpedo tubes will be able to launch cruise missiles. If not VLS, I hope we get atleast 8 torpedo tubes with 40 charges ( 10 Brahmos/Nirbhay, rest torpedos/mines). We can only speculate at the moment though.

True.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

The primary concern is stealth, and having VLS compromise on the diving depth of the sub for required structural modifications

Yeah but having a SSN without VLS seems odd. Do Chinese SSNs carry VLS? Virginia class carry 12 vls though.

The problem with VLS tubes for say Brahmos/Nirbhay or Conventional missiles is that mostly such firing will happen when sub is likely to be withing periscopic range from surface. It is true that USN normally has advanced subs like Virginia class which does fire from 50m or Russian Delta IV from 55m but generally people avoid due to cavitation issues from deeper depth.

Now here is the ideal problem. When you are at periscopic depth, the chances of detection from ASW units aerial or sonars or even surface fleet engaged in ASW all can easily detect and lay a trap of mines, torpedoes and depth charges.

The only way to negate such an issue is using longer range missiles whether (cruise or ballastic) from a standoff point away from any threat detection zone. for that we need SSGN types dedicated with conventional strikes (or option of having nuclear armed)

OR a better solution is something similar to Virginia Payload Module can be a superb solution.

.

Thus, the payload multiplication implies even if threat is somewhat big and detection is almost certain, the amount of firing done by multiple tubes with different configurations to carry different missions (LACM, AShM,etc) makes them superiro for a A2/AD role

Anyways Virginia also has 4x533mm torpedo tubes enough to handle all defensive maneuvers and also to do attack other subs or laying down mines.. They use Mark 48 mod 6/7 thats a heavyweight designed for sinking N subs or big Ships..

If we can have such a combination, having VLS tubes makes very good sense.
@Penguin Your views on the stealth angle vs VLS for a submarine.....

 

[Penguin]

@Penguin Your views on the stealth angle vs VLS for a submarine.....

Essentially, SSBNs have been fitted with VLS as soon as this became possible, with increasing numbers of tubes, for their ballistic missiles. It simply was a better way to launch. There were, are, and will remain, the quietest subs around. The addition of 'small caliber' VLS-tubes for cruise missiles is not new either, it is common in US SSNs and even some 668 LA-class SSBNs.
For an SSBN, at first glance, a greater role in conventional warfare does not seem desirable lest its looses its stealth. Then again, suppose you do launch your 1700km / 1000nmi range Block IV TLAM-E from the max possible firing depth, at a safe disdantance from shore (so that you remain in deep waters). By the time the opponent spots your volley, the SSBN will probably already have gone silent and deep and be long gone. The opponent would typically not have assets to go after it on the spot instantly. And, 22x7=154 cruise missiles is more than the entire CM loadout of a surfarce group. I say, well worth the risk, esp. at a time when surface assets seem to be getting more vulnerable.
SSNs (SSGNs actually) can keep doing what they already have been doing for decaded: seem they had no trouble remaining hard to find.
Ohio-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Los Angeles-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Virginia-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[longewala]

It is awesome to know that we have 4 public and 3 private sector capable of building Submarine. Once we build very advance submarine like Arihant, Scorpene, and Kilo class along with HDW in india, we shall have the know how of best in the world submarines. We can hope to be a country leading in this area. We have awesome weapons on these platforms as well. We shall have K-15, K4, Nirbhay, SL Brahmos and long range torpedo. These are awesome weapons in their class and will dare our enemies. A3 SLBM and K-5 will also join by the end of this decade or in the binning of next decade to make indian navy a blue water navy in real sense.



L & T have made a significant progress in this submarine technology. Arihant was also constructed in L & T. My friends were there in construction.

Currently one russian design submarine work is going on in full pace on 24*7 basis. The dia sub is 10 m. 3 meter long cells are fabricated. They have an excellent QA-QC system to check the quality of fabrication and welding in place.

Careful....You dont want to give away any sensitive info that is not in public domain.