Impact of Islamo-socialism on Pakistani economy

[Kompromat]

Political Islam has destroyed pakistan.

Says a Political Hindu?

 

[niaz]

The comments section of link in FaujiHistorian led me this link below,

Pakistani Motor Car

Don't know how much of it is fiction and how much is truth, but an interesting read anyways,


//

Was just going through the immage gallery when I came across a thread regarding a donkey/car jokingly labelled as Pakistan's First Car.

Here's some very important news for you.

Pakistan was the the First Islamic Country in the world which made a 4 Wheel Drive Jeep of its own in late 60's called NAYA DAUR in collaboration with WILLIS jeep.

Pakistan was the First Islamic Country in the world which was about to manufacture its own Motocycles in early 70's with the collaboration of JAVA motorcycle but the process was soon abandoned.

Pakistan was the First Islamic Country in the world which had made its own prototype Diesel Engines by the Lahore based company called BECO (Battala Engineering Company).

And last but not the least;

Pakistan really was the First Islamic Country in the world which actually made a Motor Car of its own in early 70's with the collaboration of SKODA Motors. It was named SKOPAK. The prototypes had been made, the production was about to be started soon, but alas.......

The 1971 war with the separation of East Pakistan, had its toll in each and every aspect. The country met an economic shock, the economic readjustments by Mr Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, lead to a stagerring 127% (approx)depriciation in the value of Pakistani Ruppee. All the industries were Nationalised and...

The production of NAYA DAUR jeeps was stopped as their production in the country was not cost effective by then.

The Motorcycle project was blown to pieces.

The BECO was nationalised and was converted into PECO (Pakistan Engineering Company) which instead of making Diesel Engines was put on manufacturing PECO Bicycles......

And SKOPAK CAR project died forever.

Dear Countrymen, it is my extremely humble request. Please do not make fun of your country. Yes I admit we have a lot of shortcomings, but who has'nt.

Please, take care of this country as it has been caring for all of us. Instead of making fun, just try to figure out What went wrong and where?

You can well imagine that Pakistan was way ahead in late 60's then most of the Asian Giants, and the proof of its greatness is that although...

Pakistan could not continue the production of its Jeeps, although

Pakistan could not start the manufacturing of its own Motorcycles, although

Pakistan could not continue with its production of Diesel Engines, & although

Pakistan could not continue its project of SkoPak Cars, yet it succeeded in doing something which only 6 countries in the world had done before, i.e.,

PAKISTAN ACHIEVED THE DISTINCTION OF BECOMING ISLAMIC WORLDS FIRST AND WORLDS SEVENTH NUCLEAR POWER.....

LONG LIVE PAKISTAN, LONG LIVE PAKSITANIS AND LONG LIVE PAKISTANIAT.

Love for all the Pakistanis.

//

Regret to disappoint the honourable member, but except the nuclear bomb, most other claims are incorrect.

When I was in my teens in the late 50’s, we used to boast about being biggest in Asia, totally forgetting that Japan was also in Asia which had the industrial base rivaling any European country. Now we feel great by claiming that we are the best in Islamic world, again ignoring the fact that Turkey is also a Muslim country.

Take the automobile industry for example. The post says

Quote

Pakistan really was the First Islamic Country in the world which actually made a Motor Car of its own in early 70's with the collaboration ofSKODAMotors. It was namedSKOPAK.The prototypes had been made, the production was about to be started soon, but alas…

Unquote.

Let me remind everyone that Turkish aurtomotive Industry is much older. Otosan factory was established inn 1959 at Istanbul
to produce the models of the Ford Motors under licence in Turkey.

First indigenously designed and produced Turkish automobile, the Devrim was manufactured at the Tülomsaş factory in
Eskisehir as early as 1961. In 1966 Anadol became the first mass-produced Turkish automobile brand produced by the Otosan factory in Istanbul. Austin & Morris vehicles of the British Motor Corporation began to be produced under licence at the
BMC plant at Izmir in late 1960's.

In 1968 the Togas factory was opened in Bursa to produce Fiat models and Oyak-Renault factory was established in Bursa for in 1969. Turkey produced 1,124,982 motor vehicles in 2010.

In my humble opinion; patting ourselves on the back thru being the best in Islamic world is highly naïve. Even this claim is more often incorrect because we are unaware of Turkish achievements.

If we would like Pakistan to be counted as first among equals; we would never get anywhere by being ecstatic as one of the better ones among the ‘also ran’. Regret to say that slogans may be good for morale, but for nothing else. Just look at the modern inventions and ask ourselves what is the Pakistan's contribution in any of these? Best we have done so far is to produce under license; but even medicines made in Pakistan are second rate. Is this sufficient to move the country into the 21st century?

Main reason for this attitude is lack of education and I mean real education and original research, not fake degrees. However, instead of honouring our Noble Prize winners we denigrate them and continue to believe in the likes of water car engineers. I sincerely apologize for hurting feelings but I would like my countrymen to recognize our weakness as we can only overcome our ignorance if we are aware of it.

However this was a digression from the real topic. In my view and I was physically there; 10 years of Ayub Khan, despite all Ayub's faults, were the best for Pakistan economy. ZAB, who is now given almost a ‘Demigod’ status by his admirers, was the worst as far as economy is concerned.

PP politicians exploited the prevalent jealousy against the 22 families who were allegedly monopolizing Pakistani banks and industry. However in process, Pakistan's economy, that was struggling to recover from the 1965 war expense, got killed.
ZAB policies of nationalization executed by Dr Mubashar Hassan, choked off the drive & initiative of Pakistani entrepreneurs.This set the economy back 30 years and eliminated all chances of recovery.

ZAB’s Islamic socialism did not provide ‘Roti, kapra aur makaan’ to the common man but in the process made a pauper of the whole country. Trade Unions got unbridled power, so much so that even taken over industries were again taken over by the workers who stripped and sold machinery worth millions for scrap. The entrepreneurial spirit existing before 1969 never really recovered its zeal. People forget but things became so bad that import of cars had to be totally banned for a couple of years.

 

[FaujHistorian]

...

But we must also understand that just because this 'Islamic Socialism' failed

Listen bhai

As individual you work hard all your life and on merit. Good in school, good in job, then save.

If you have savings, you feed people even those who are not related to you. people who are not hard working, and those who are sick, and those who are infirm. This is called socialism at individual level.

I am all for it.


Similarly

if a nation works for 200 years based on merit and merit only. tough on themselves, tough on the world. then save and save and save. This is what UK is and this is what norway is.

Then you feed those who are not hard working, and those who are sick, and those who are infirm. This is called socialism at national level.


Pakistan was only few decades old, and it had not worked for 200 years purely on merit, and it had no savings,

no natural resources either.

in that situation, Islamic socialism = looting and dacoity of the small number of hard working citizens

Hope you see the diff.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Regret to disappoint the honourable member, but except the nuclear bomb, most other claims are incorrect.

When I was in my teens in the late 50’s, we used to boast about being biggest in Asia, totally forgetting that Japan was also in Asia which had the industrial base rivaling any European country. Now we feel great by claiming that we are the best in Islamic world, again ignoring the fact that Turkey is also a Muslim country.

Take the automobile industry for example. The post says

Quote

Pakistan really was the First Islamic Country in the world which actually made a Motor Car of its own in early 70's with the collaboration ofSKODAMotors. It was namedSKOPAK.The prototypes had been made, the production was about to be started soon, but alas…

Unquote.

Let me remind everyone that Turkish aurtomotive Industry is much older. Otosan factory was established inn 1959 at Istanbul
to produce the models of the Ford Motors under licence in Turkey.

First indigenously designed and produced Turkish automobile, the Devrim was manufactured at the Tülomsaş factory in
Eskisehir as early as 1961. In 1966 Anadol became the first mass-produced Turkish automobile brand produced by the Otosan factory in Istanbul. Austin & Morris vehicles of the British Motor Corporation began to be produced under licence at the
BMC plant at Izmir in late 1960's.

In 1968 the Togas factory was opened in Bursa to produce Fiat models and Oyak-Renault factory was established in Bursa for in 1969. Turkey produced 1,124,982 motor vehicles in 2010.

In my humble opinion; patting ourselves on the back thru being the best in Islamic world is highly naïve. Even this claim is more often incorrect because we are unaware of Turkish achievements.

If we would like Pakistan to be counted as first among equals; we would never get anywhere by being ecstatic as one of the better ones among the ‘also ran’. Regret to say that slogans may be good for morale, but for nothing else. Just look at the modern inventions and ask ourselves what is the Pakistan's contribution in any of these? Best we have done so far is to produce under license; but even medicines made in Pakistan are second rate. Is this sufficient to move the country into the 21st century?

Main reason for this attitude is lack of education and I mean real education and original research, not fake degrees. However, instead of honouring our Noble Prize winners we denigrate them and continue to believe in the likes of water car engineers. I sincerely apologize for hurting feelings but I would like my countrymen to recognize our weakness as we can only overcome our ignorance if we are aware of it.

However this was a digression from the real topic. In my view and I was physically there; 10 years of Ayub Khan, despite all Ayub's faults, were the best for Pakistan economy. ZAB, who is now given almost a ‘Demigod’ status by his admirers, was the worst as far as economy is concerned.

PP politicians exploited the prevalent jealousy against the 22 families who were allegedly monopolizing Pakistani banks and industry. However in process, Pakistan's economy, that was struggling to recover from the 1965 war expense, got killed.
ZAB policies of nationalization executed by Dr Mubashar Hassan, choked off the drive & initiative of Pakistani entrepreneurs.This set the economy back 30 years and eliminated all chances of recovery.

ZAB’s Islamic socialism did not provide ‘Roti, kapra aur makaan’ to the common man but in the process made a pauper of the whole country. Trade Unions got unbridled power, so much so that even taken over industries were again taken over by the workers who stripped and sold machinery worth millions for scrap. The entrepreneurial spirit existing before 1969 never really recovered its zeal. People forget but things became so bad that import of cars had to be totally banned for a couple of years.

Wow.

Bhai Jaan.

your words are worth the highest admiration possible.

 

[TankMan]

Listen bhai

As individual you work hard all your life and on merit. Good in school, good in job, then save.

If you have savings, you feed people even those who are not related to you. people who are not hard working, and those who are sick, and those who are infirm. This is called socialism at individual level.

I am all for it.


Similarly

if a nation works for 200 years based on merit and merit only. tough on themselves, tough on the world. then save and save and save. This is what UK is and this is what norway is.

Then you feed those who are not hard working, and those who are sick, and those who are infirm. This is called socialism at national level.


Pakistan was only few decades old, and it had not worked for 200 years purely on merit, and it had no savings,

no natural resources either.

in that situation, Islamic socialism = looting and dacoity of the small number of hard working citizens

Hope you see the diff.

Wow, bhai mera baaki post saara bhool gaye or sirf aik point pakr ke beth gaye ho? Pooray point ko bhi nahi dekha.

Here's what I said:

But we must also understand that just because this 'Islamic Socialism' failed doesn't mean the exact opposite of it would work.

I did NOT say that 'Islamic Socialism' is or was a viable option. What I DID say was that because this failed doesn't mean its exact opposite would work. A middle-ground approach is required. Too much unrestricted capitalism is just as bad as too much ill-timed socialism.

Pakistan was only few decades old, and it had not worked for 200 years purely on merit, and it had no savings,

This is precisely what I meant when I said:

stupid timing

ZAB's policies might have worked a lot better if Pakistan was given a couple of decades more to mature before he tried them.

As individual you work hard all your life and on merit. Good in school, good in job, then save.

If you have savings, you feed people even those who are not related to you. people who are not hard working, and those who are sick, and those who are infirm. This is called socialism at individual level.

I am all for it.

This I agree with 100%, well said.

if a nation works for 200 years based on merit and merit only. tough on themselves, tough on the world. then save and save and save. This is what UK is and this is what norway is.

Then you feed those who are not hard working, and those who are sick, and those who are infirm. This is called socialism at national level.

Again, absolutely no disagreement here.

no natural resources either.

Actually Pakistan has plenty of natural resources, they just aren't being extracted yet. Your point still stands though, just a minor factual issue here.

in that situation, Islamic socialism = looting and dacoity of the small number of hard working citizens

Any form of State-Level socialism in that situation would be wrong. However, for the long term, some degree of socialism is required in certain departments. (Keywords here : long-term, certain departments)

Hope you see the diff.

My opinion and your opinion here are pretty much the same. I do see what you are saying and I hope you can see what I'm saying, with an open-mind.

 

[VCheng]

Islamo-socialism single handedly destroyed Pakistani industry back in 1972.

Read the following and cry.

Also see how Chinese PM wanted to send Chinese engineers to Pakistan for training.

And now we beg Chinese for money. Scroll down the linked article and see the pictures of Chinese, Japanese, and Germans at BECO.

Utterly sad

Impact Of Nationalization On BECO And Pakistan Economic Development | Ramblings of a Pakistani Woman.

As much as I respect that you like history, not much will be gained by looking back so far. We should concentrate on how to take the economy into the future by concentrating on the present, not the past.

 

[FaujHistorian]

As much as I respect that you like history, not much will be gained by looking back so far. We should concentrate on how to take the economy into the future by concentrating on the present, not the past.

Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
---- by George Santayana (1863-1952)

"People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors."
----- by Edmund Burke ( 1729 – 1797)

Hope you understand why it is EXTREMELY important to perform honest analysis (postmortem) of history of Pakistan.

IK and his die hard followers will not be making mistakes today if he had any inkling about socialist anarchists of the past.


peace

 

[TankMan]

IK and his die hard followers will not be making mistakes today if he had any inkling about socialist anarchists of the past.

IK isn't really into socialism... but yes, he really could have handled the present situation a lot better. He failed to realize that once he was involved in politics, he had to think like a politician instead of being so emotional. Otherwise he had potential, could've been a really decent leader. Still can, maybe.

Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
---- by George Santayana (1863-1952)
"People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors."
----- by Edmund Burke ( 1729 – 1797)
Hope you understand why it is EXTREMELY important to perform honest analysis (postmortem) of history of Pakistan.

Wise words. Learning from the past is essential, the best way to learn is from mistakes and Pakistan's history is completely full of those.

 

[Bouncer]

Regret to disappoint the honourable member, but except the nuclear bomb, most other claims are incorrect.

Thank you for the informative post. I did not verify these claims before posting, rather just copied them as-is.
If I understand correctly from your post, these projects (cars, jeeps made in Pak) were there, but they were not just the first in the Islamic world?