How should Pakistanis view the Mughals?

[Great Janjua]

He was asked by the Mughal governor of Kabul (Bayazid's friend at that time) if he claimed to be the prophet or Mehdi, Pir Roshan replied in the negative and explained it to him what he actually meant. This episode has been recorded in a few history accounts. Let me see if I can find one and post it here for you

Meanwhile I'll quote you a translation from his work.

The Quran is not the only source of spiritual guidance and wisdom. We should also study the works of other great spiritual teachers and philosophers, and incorporate their insights into our own spiritual practice."


Is this justified you tell me.

 

[AA_]

Pakistan should ask for reparations from Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. If not they should invade them both, plunder them and make their women into sex slaves.

Atleast the British built the railways, army, governance and facilitated in the creation of Pakistan.

 

[Menace2Society]

I thought Pakistanis were descendants of Arabs, Moghuls, Persians and Turks.

We are talking the western part of South Asia here. I look nothing like someone from South part of South Asia lets say. How can I identify with someone who literally looks like a difference race to me? Ofcourse the ancestry is different.

 

[ProblemSolver]

Islam in Pakistan spread differently than Islam in Bangladesh btw. For Bangladesh originally it was through traders? I'm not sure but remember seeing some lecture about this. While in Pakistan it was through sufi saints from central asia. The forced conversion thing is a bullshit propaganda that Indians propagate. While it did happen, not mostly. Even wikipedia is littered with this shit. There's a reason why there are major darbars in Pakistan.

This one:

might be a good watch for anyone interested.

 

[El Sidd]

1: Balochistan was under Rashidun Caliphate after they defeated the Sassanians it's history empires fall others rise.

2: By your logic every empire in existence was a invader Arabs were not a rare case.

3: Many traditions lol the main works on Sindh conquest are Chachnama and Al-Baladhuri's Kitab Futuh al-Buldan which both say a small contingent defected due to mistreatment and arduous campaign of Sindh and these same "defecters" amusingly defected back when Raja Dahir was on his last legs. So much for the traditions.

4: Persian revival and that in Balochistan you must be kidding me LMAO Balochistan was part of Sassania so it was logical that it would be conquered since it was land route for trade between mainland India and Middle East. By the time Ummayds took control Persia was effectively pacified although there were some revolts in mainland Iran not Balochistan.

Ummayads are not considered cool enough in Sind and Balochistan

 

[Menace2Society]

The forced conversion thing is a bullshit propaganda that Indians propagate. While it did happen, not mostly

It's not BS. The condition was when they raided villages was either convert or be taken as a slave or death. It was not spread peacefully. The amount of cope on this is ridiculous. There was an INVASION my friend. Many died. Our women and young girls became their sex slaves. Raped and forced to carry their children. This all happened.

When we discuss history we must speak truthfully otherwise you become a revisionist hinduvita and they do the same with their history after also destroying cultures and religions around them.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Meanwhile I'll quote you a translation from his work.

The Quran is not the only source of spiritual guidance and wisdom. We should also study the works of other great spiritual teachers and philosophers, and incorporate their insights into our own spiritual practice."


Is this justified you tell me.

When Bayazid arrived at Kabul, Mirza Hakim received him with great respect. He then sent him to his prominent jurist,Qadi Khan for discussion and debate. Qadi Khan said to him: "O Shaykh! it is said that you have claimed that you are a Mahdi". Bayazid replied: "I do not claim that I am a Mahdi; I rather say that I am guide, directing people towards tauheed and understanding of the Being of Allah; but my ill-wishers have changed "Hadi" into "Mahdi" and "Wali" into "Nabi".(59) then Qadi Khan asked him: It is said that you claim divine revelation". Bayazid replied: "I do not claim divine revelation: I rather say I receive inspiration".(60) After the discussion Qadi Khan took Bayazid to Mirza Hakim and said to him that all the allegations levelled against Bayazid were incorrect and that he was a good person.

p. 81:

https://tehqeeqat.org/downloadpdf/32419

 

[Al_Muhannad]

Pakistan should ask for reparations from Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. If not they should invade them both, plunder them and make their women into sex slaves.

Atleast the British built the railways, army, governance and facilitated in the creation of Pakistan.

Ah.
I suppose if we applied this rule on the white race and took them slaves, we would be 1400-year-old-savages?
British imposed those institutions to enforce their absolute control. They were not meant for effective governance.

I suppose you have not been observing what is going in in Pakistan after the partition, or even for last year. Or may be, you are one of those “loyal mohammadans of his majesty” types.

It's not BS. The condition was when they raided villages was either convert or be taken as a slave or death. It was not spread peacefully. The amount of cope on this is ridiculous. There was an INVASION my friend. Many died. Our women and young girls became their sex slaves. Raped and forced to carry their children. This all happened.

When we discuss history we must speak truthfully otherwise you become a revisionist hinduvita and they do the same with their history after also destroying cultures and religions around them.

Oho. I see kaferization of our history. The coconut kind is indeed the worst. Believe it at your own risk.

 

[iamnobody]

We are talking the western part of South Asia here. I look nothing like someone from South part of South Asia lets say. How can I identify with someone who literally looks like a difference race to me? Ofcourse the ancestry is different.

Saar you can identify with anyone you want to.

South Indians are not seeking validation from Punjabis.

What's your opinion on Pathans who don't want to identify with dark Punjabis?

 

[Maula Jatt]

It's not BS. The condition was when they raided villages was either convert or be taken as a slave or death. It was not spread peacefully. The amount of cope on this is ridiculous. There was an INVASION my friend. Many died. Our women and young girls became their sex slaves. Raped and forced to carry their children. This all happened.

When we discuss history we must speak truthfully otherwise you become a revisionist hinduvita and they do the same with their history after also destroying cultures and religions around them.

I have zero incentive in bigging up Islam, like I openly say my beliefs so I'm not exactly biased and have no incentive in being biased

Yes some might be forced or portion of it but large populace was not, they simply couldn't cause before British our region was not populated enough and people lived a tribal lifestyle, somewhat nomadic scattered throughout the Land (in 60s we had less population in all of Pakistan than England imagine pre British era) our relgious beliefs were not set in stone/archaic so the majority or more nomadic, warlike tribes became mostly Muslims as mainstream aristocracy/way of life was by the Muslims, simply over a period of centuries adopted mainstream way of life which included relgion, that's why their were so many local beliefs mixed into our relgious practices for the longest time
but those who were upper Castes were always Hindus unlike lower-middle caste people, if it was forced they'd be majority Muslims but they're not Muslims - it's a myth blown out of proportion
rest of it is oppression **** common amongst Persian, Egyptian, Berber nationalists who become athiests

So you're not exactly saying new things here, it's a very common phenomena, which I think is counterproductive towards our nationalism

We don't need that

 

[El Sidd]

It's not BS. The condition was when they raided villages was either convert or be taken as a slave or death. It was not spread peacefully. The amount of cope on this is ridiculous. There was an INVASION my friend. Many died. Our women and young girls became their sex slaves. Raped and forced to carry their children. This all happened.

When we discuss history we must speak truthfully otherwise you become a revisionist hinduvita and they do the same with their history after also destroying cultures and religions around them.

Under dictatorship or puppet democracy, the locals have tried to preserve nativity.

For example the Jewish cult of Christianity, it's founder is purported to be a Buddhist monk who spent last of his days in Kashmir. Similarly Goharis and Mirzais now have a significant following in Punjab.

 

[Steppe Wolff]

I am glad that Pakistanis are claiming to be Hindus these days.

Not all are you dumbass. And those who are they'll claim it. And I haven't seen much Pakistanis calling themselves Turks.

 

[Great Janjua]

When Bayazid arrived at Kabul, Mirza Hakim received him with great respect. He then sent him to his prominent jurist,Qadi Khan for discussion and debate. Qadi Khan said to him: "O Shaykh! it is said that you have claimed that you are a Mahdi". Bayazid replied: "I do not claim that I am a Mahdi; I rather say that I am guide, directing people towards tauheed and understanding of the Being of Allah; but my ill-wishers have changed "Hadi" into "Mahdi" and "Wali" into "Nabi".(59) then Qadi Khan asked him: It is said that you claim divine revelation". Bayazid replied: "I do not claim divine revelation: I rather say I receive inspiration".(60) After the discussion Qadi Khan took Bayazid to Mirza Hakim and said to him that all the allegations levelled against Bayazid were incorrect and that he was a good person.

p. 81:

https://tehqeeqat.org/downloadpdf/32419

Read his personal works The Hasht Bihisht.

"Truth is not found in the Quran alone, nor in the words of the Prophet. It is found in the hearts of men, and in the world around us."

"Why should we follow the rituals of the past, when the world is constantly changing? We must create our own rituals that are relevant to our own time and place."

"The concept of sin is a human invention, designed to control and oppress us. We should not be afraid of our natural desires, but rather embrace them as part of our humanity."

Give me the original source or a book for the claims you have provided above in your post.

When Bayazid arrived at Kabul, Mirza Hakim received him with great respect. He then sent him to his prominent jurist,Qadi Khan for discussion and debate. Qadi Khan said to him: "O Shaykh! it is said that you have claimed that you are a Mahdi". Bayazid replied: "I do not claim that I am a Mahdi; I rather say that I am guide, directing people towards tauheed and understanding of the Being of Allah; but my ill-wishers have changed "Hadi" into "Mahdi" and "Wali" into "Nabi".(59) then Qadi Khan asked him: It is said that you claim divine revelation". Bayazid replied: "I do not claim divine revelation: I rather say I receive inspiration".(60) After the discussion Qadi Khan took Bayazid to Mirza Hakim and said to him that all the allegations levelled against Bayazid were incorrect and that he was a good person.

p. 81:

https://tehqeeqat.org/downloadpdf/32419

If you look at the personal work of Qadi Khan book "Muntakhab-al Lubab," Qadi Khan mentioned Pir Roshan as the leader of the Roshaniyya movement, which he viewed as a heretical sect that had deviated from mainstream Islam.

And there is no general consensus on the meeting between Mirza Hakim and Bayazid Ansari aka Pir Roshan many accounts say Mirza Hakim wanted him executed.

 

[Great Janjua]

Ummayads are not considered cool enough in Sind and Balochistan

Same logic applies to Dahir

 

[El Sidd]

Same logic applies to Dahir

Dahir like Ranjit was son of soil.