How The US Navy Lost The Shipbuilding Race to Chinese Navy

[gambit]

If the US really wanted to, it could bring many shipyards back. The senate is actually in the process to investigate what the Navy actually wants and to give it to them from the get go, so the US can meet whatever doctrinal needs it had to contain China.

Don’t underestimate US industry to milk the taxpayer for a large conventional buildup. We are head towards another Reagan style build up.

Milk the taxpayers? Really?

The reason -- the ONLY reason -- that China is able to outpace US in shipbuilding is via state sponsorship, aka 'subsidies'. As recent as the Trump Admin, the fact that other countries subsidizes their strategic industries much more than US is simply re-reported with China the greatest milker of taxpayers of all.

 

[MH.Yang]

Milk the taxpayers? Really?

The reason -- the ONLY reason -- that China is able to outpace US in shipbuilding is via state sponsorship, aka 'subsidies'. As recent as the Trump Admin, the fact that other countries subsidizes their strategic industries much more than US is simply re-reported with China the greatest milker of taxpayers of all.

Your mentality is the reason why USA is becoming more and more like India.
The so-called subsidies of China's shipbuilding industry are export tax rebates, the so-called subsidies of Japan's shipbuilding industry are bank low interest loans, and the so-called subsidies of South Korea's shipbuilding industry are government guaranteed loans. Only the subsidy of American shipbuilding industry is the real cash subsidy.

 

[Song Hong]

US industries got massive stealth subsidies from government in the form of bloated procurement price. The Zumwalt cost USD 4.24B excluding R&D. Despite of this, Zumwalt program is a horrible disaster.

 

[Daniel808]

Milk the taxpayers? Really?

The reason -- the ONLY reason -- that China is able to outpace US in shipbuilding is via state sponsorship, aka 'subsidies'. As recent as the Trump Admin, the fact that other countries subsidizes their strategic industries much more than US is simply re-reported with China the greatest milker of taxpayers of all.

It's more because..

Chinese Shipyards are SOE that pegged their profit to only 10% level, meanwhile US shipyards are Private companies that very Profit oriented trying to milk your budget as much as they can.

The result : Chinese Shipyards much more Efficient than US shipyards. Not to mention that Chinese is the leader in World Shipbuilding orders (more than 50% world's order goes to Chinese Shipyards), with all that Commercial orders would make their Shipyards much more efficient

 

[gambit]

Your mentality is the reason why USA is becoming more and more like India.
The so-called subsidies of China's shipbuilding industry are export tax rebates, the so-called subsidies of Japan's shipbuilding industry are bank low interest loans, and the so-called subsidies of South Korea's shipbuilding industry are government guaranteed loans. Only the subsidy of American shipbuilding industry is the real cash subsidy.

It is subsidy by other means.

It's more because..

Chinese Shipyards are SOE that pegged their profit to 10% level, meanwhile US shipyards are Private companies that very Profit oriented.

The result : Chinese Shipyards much more Efficient than US shipyards. Not to mention that Chinese is the leader in World Shipbuilding orders (more than 50% world's order goes to Chinese Shipyards), with all that Commercial orders would make their Shipyards much more efficient

What would happen if the US government nationalize Newport News Shipbuilding? It would become an SOE, right? Now we can play word games and Enron-style accounting the way you are arguing for Chinese shipbuilders.

 

[MH.Yang]

It is subsidy by other means.

What would happen if the US government nationalize Newport News Shipbuilding? It would become an SOE, right? Now we can play word games and Enron-style accounting the way you are arguing for Chinese shipbuilders.

The low cost of shipbuilding in China is not only because shipyards are state-owned enterprises, but because the whole industrial chain is a state-owned enterprise, which is a huge closed loop. It is meaningless for USA to nationalize only one or two shipyards, and we all know the Military industrial complex's greed and their strong lobbying groups.

 

[Daniel808]

What would happen if the US government nationalize Newport News Shipbuilding? It would become an SOE, right? Now we can play word games and Enron-style accounting the way you are arguing for Chinese shipbuilders.

There is no one forbid US to do that & copy the Chinese way.

But at this moment, Newport Shipyard is a profit oriented private companies that keep milking your budget as much as they can.

That's the Fact

 

[gambit]

The low cost of shipbuilding in China is not only because shipyards are state-owned enterprises, but because the whole industrial chain is a state-owned enterprise, which is a huge closed loop. It is meaningless for USA to nationalize only one or two shipyards, and we all know the Military industrial complex's greed and their strong lobbying groups.

The military-industrial-complex? Whose is better? China with that closed loop?

 

[Song Hong]

Singapore having copied all US system is going to suffer some of the worst engineering capability damage. Excessive cheap and low skill foreign engineers do not help the countries. It cheapen engineering professions, making smart people avoid engineering like plague. Excessive engineers also degrade the dignity of the profession and make MBA/managers complacent and stupid.

 

[Beidou2020]

China’s naval shipbuilding can ramp up significantly more if necessary.

 

[Itachi]

Typical fanboy trolling post


This former Royal Navy Officer talking about the Shipbuilding race currently happening and toward the future.

Not talking about the Active fleet

Currently happening and in the future but not active fleet??

So you mean that tomorrow if the US and China fight a war....all the ships being made currently and in the future won't matter??

So why is this a big deal in the first place?? Why're actual fanboys (I'm not one, just putting things in perspective) jumping up and down when the US is also building ships, subs and air craft carriers as we speak??

You still don't understand. There will be no war between the Chinese fleet and the American fleet. The ship building competition between the two countries is to win the world's confidence in their force. Once USA loses its absolute sea power, it means the collapse of a series of American systems such as the dollar system.

USA has no right not to follow the bet. It must use warships to hedge against Chinese warships, not missiles.
China has a real manufacturing industry, while USA has only banks and law firms. Without confidence and military protection, USA will end badly, just like Zimbabwe.

The US is just banks and firms??

One is a country which has been in warfare since it came into being since 1776.....another is a country formed after WWII which has no, literally no experience, fighting a peer after it was born in the sea.

The USN dominates the world and in the SCS. It'll continue to do that. Fighting ships is ships is what amateurs do.

Warfare is all about countering stuff with other stuff, not similar stuff. Your typical low level responses on here along with those of your kin tell me you guys don't even know what you're talking about.

Try not to waste my time again.

 

[MH.Yang]

Currently happening and in the future but not active fleet??

So you mean that tomorrow if the US and China fight a war....all the ships being made currently and in the future won't matter??

So why is this a big deal in the first place?? Why're actual fanboys (I'm not one, just putting things in perspective) jumping up and down when the US is also building ships, subs and air craft carriers as we speak??


The US is just banks and firms??

One is a country which has been in warfare since it came into being since 1776.....another is a country formed after WWII which has no, literally no experience, fighting a peer after it was born in the sea.

The USN dominates the world and in the SCS. It'll continue to do that. Fighting ships is ships is what amateurs do.

Warfare is all about countering stuff with other stuff, not similar stuff. Your typical low level responses on here along with those of your kin tell me you guys don't even know what you're talking about.

Try not to waste my time again.

Have you considered that China only began to expand its navy in 2016, and in 2015, the Chinese navy even was not as good as the Japanese Navy. It has only been used for five years, it can made USA so nervous. You can calculate the number of Chinese warships serviced from 2016 to 2021. At this rate, how many years will it take for China to double the US Navy?

In 2011, when USA decided to return to Asia&Pacific, China also decided to play the ship building competition with USA. Our target is twice that of the US Navy.

 

[Itachi]

Have you considered that China only began to expand its navy in 2016, and in 2015, the Chinese navy even was not as good as the Japanese Navy. It has only been used for five years, it can made USA so nervous. You can calculate the number of Chinese warships serviced from 2016 to 2021. At this rate, how many years will it take for China to double the US Navy?

In 2011, when USA decided to return to Asia&Pacific, China also decided to play the ship building competition with USA. Our target is twice that of the US Navy.

I don't need to consider anything. Especially anything you say.

All you're doing is pulling up facts to support your opinion, the same opinion which was a couple of posts ago jumping up and down. Now you're trying to make China look like a underdog??

What happened to the ship building capacity of China?? Won't there be a million Chinese ships in 2050 vs 100 US ships?

In the end, the US will continue to dominate the seas. It has been working on the Chinese Navy way before 2016, which as you mentioned, was when China started building up.

China can make a 1,000 ships, it won't matter as long as the US continues to dominate the Air & Space.

 

[MH.Yang]

I don't need to consider anything. Especially anything you say.

All you're doing is pulling up facts to support your opinion, the same opinion which was a couple of posts ago jumping up and down. Now you're trying to make China look like a underdog??

What happened to the ship building capacity of China?? Won't there be a million Chinese ships in 2050 vs 100 US ships?

In the end, the US will continue to dominate the seas. It has been working on the Chinese Navy way before 2016, which as you mentioned, was when China started building up.

China can make a 1,000 ships, it won't matter as long as the US continues to dominate the Air & Space.

In Air&Space, USA will also lose, and even worse.
You don't understand. There are serious problems in USA. The US system makes Americans have no way to correct even if they see mistakes, it lacks the ability of metabolism. Finally, its diseases are more and more serious.
Now USA has no ability to compete with China in any way. They can only rely on the advantages accumulated in the past to maintain the status quo.

 

[Itachi]

In Air&Space, USA will also lose, and even worse.
You don't understand. There are serious problems in USA. The US system makes Americans have no way to correct even if they see mistakes, it lacks the ability of metabolism. Finally, its diseases are more and more serious.
Now USA has no ability to compete with China in any way. They can only rely on the advantages accumulated in the past to maintain the status quo.

Lmao talk to me when the US loses. Currently the US dominates.