F-15SA First Taxi Test

[Bubblegum Crisis]

Some Saudi member pointed out in another thread how initial Saudi F-15's were downgraded to appease the Isralies. In the current deal Isralies objected again, New F-15 are top notch in every aspect or behind the scenes these F-15 would have performance cuts?

why do you want them to be downgraded ?

Israel has over 200 nuclear warheads mounted on IRBM (Jericho II), ICBM MIRV (Jericho III) and has also a second-strike capability with its 6 Dolphin-class submarines.

It's just completely rediculous. ^^

And i have my doubts about this that they are providing top notch radar and EW to Saudi AF equipment with the same specs they use or Israel use.

Do you read, analyze and draw logical conclusions ? Visibly. No !

I help you: ‘Deterrence theory’.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_retaliation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-strike_capability

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

And i have my doubts about this that they are providing top notch radar and EW to Saudi AF equipment with the same specs they use or Israel use.

Actually, they are far better than the US and Israeli F-15, as well as the UAE F-16E are better than all versions USA operate. Google them.

 

[Mosamania]

And i have my doubts about this that they are providing top notch radar and EW to Saudi AF equipment with the same specs they use or Israel use.

No, it is actually better than what both use, the radar and EW systems are the same ones operated on the F-22 and F-35,

 

[Dazzler]

No, it is actually better than what both use, the radar and EW systems are the same ones operated on the F-22 and F-35,

Nope, F-22 uses APG-77 not APG-63V series and for EW, DEW is a variant of Raptors EW so should be capable but thats about all.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

No, it is actually better than what both use, the radar and EW systems are the same ones operated on the F-22 and F-35,

Nope, F-22 uses APG-77 not APG-63V series and for EW, DEW is a variant of Raptors EW so should be capable but thats about all.

Northrop Grumman to pitch new AESA radar to export customers

07:34 11 Sep 2012
By: Dave Majumdar Washington DC

Northrop Grumman plans to offer a new radar based on the antenna of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter's (JSF) APG-81 active electronically scanned array (AESA) combined with the receiver, exciter and processors (REP) of its Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) to potential foreign upgrade customers.

Northrop has already test flown the new radar on its British Aircraft Corporation BAC 111 test-bed aircraft, says Patrick Antkowiak, vice president of the company's advanced concepts and technologies division.

"We put it on there in literally weeks and flew it on May 9th," Antkowiak says.

The new system would have the power and performance of the APG-81, but at much lower cost.

The SABR REP cannot be retrofitted back into the F-35 because APG-81 does not have a "backend" as such, instead most of the processing for the radar is performed in the JSF's core processors, says Joe Ensor, Northrop's vice president for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance and targeting systems.

Antkowiak says that though the new radar will be offered to both foreign and domestic customers, the radar is most likely to be offered for export to customers flying the Boeing F-15, F/A-18 or Lockheed F-16. That is because US F-15s and F/A-18s are already being upgraded with Raytheon-built AESA radar sets.

One of the advantages of using the APG-81 antenna is that it is already cleared for export, Ensor says. Therefore, it should not be difficult to get the new radar cleared for sale to foreign allies.


Flightglobal

Northrop Targets F-16 AESA, Eyes F-15 And F-18

September 17, 2012
By Graham Warwick
Source: Aerospace Daily & Defense Report

Northrop Grumman is eying the market to upgrade older Boeing F-15s and F-18s with active electronically scanned arrays (AESA) after flight testing a combination of the active-array radars it has developed for Lockheed Martin’s F-16 and F-35 fighters.

The May flight test in a BAC One-Eleven radar testbed owned by Northrop showed that the high-performance front-end array from the F-35’s APG-81 radar could be combined with the affordable back-end receiver/exciter/processor from the Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) under development for retrofit into the F-16.

Intended as a drop-in replacement for Northrop’s APG-66 and -68 mechanically scanned radars in the F-16, the SABR is sized to fit in the fighter’s nose without modification and operate within the available air-cooling capacity, and priced for the retrofit market.

The F-15 and F/A-18 can accommodate larger, more-powerful radars, like the liquid-cooled APG-81 AESA. But Northrop would have to oust incumbent Raytheon, which is already supplying AESAs for both aircraft.

The May flight test showed the performance on the APG-81 can be combined with the affordability of the SABR, says Pat Antkowiak, vice president and general manager of Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems’ advanced concepts and technology division.

The APG-81 transmit/receive array and SABR single-box receiver / exciter / processor (REP) were integrated and flown in the One-Eleven “in weeks,” he says.

The SABR REP has a more open architecture than the APG-81, which uses proprietary hardware and software. “This unlocks the insertion of new technology and opens the market for legacy platforms,” Antkowiak says.

“If we take the APG-81 technology and combine it with the affordability of the REP we have a value proposition, both domestically and internationally,” he says.

The U.S. Air Force plans to put some 300 Block 40/42 and 50/52 F-16C/Ds through a service life extension and combat avionics upgrade, including a new AESA radar, because of delays in development and fielding of the F-35A.

Lockheed will be prime integrator for the upgrade, but the USAF will conduct a separate competition for the AESA, says Joe Ensor, vice president and general manager of Northrop’s intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and targeting systems division.

Although the incumbent radar supplier on the F-16 , Northrop and its SABR will face competition from the Raytheon Advanced Capability Radar (RACR). “It will be a government source selection. We are awaiting a draft request for proposals,” says Ensor.

Beyond the F-16 market , the U.S. Navy has around 100 Block I F/A-18E/F Super Hornets that are candidates for a radar upgrade . Earlier F/A-18s operated domestically and internationally are also possibilities for AESA retrofits.

The Air Force is upgrading its F-15Es and some F-15Cs with Raytheon AESAs, but some older aircraft and F-15s operated by international customers remain candidates for radar retrofits.


Aviation Week

Quote 3 (Wikiped) :

AN/APG-81

The AN/APG-81 is an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar system designed by Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems for the F-35 Lightning II.

The Joint Strike Fighter AN/APG-81 AESA radar is a result of the US government's competition for the world's largest AESA acquisition contract. Westinghouse Electronic Systems (acquired by Northrop Grumman in 1996) and Hughes Aircraft (acquired by Raytheon in 1997) received contracts for the development of the Multifunction Integrated RF System/Multifunction Array (MIRFS/MFA) in February 1996. Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman were selected as the winners of the Joint Strike Fighter competition; The System Development and Demonstration (SDD) contract was announced on 26 October 2001.

The AN/APG-81 is a successor radar to the F-22's AN/APG-77. Over 3,000 AN/APG-81 AESA radars are expected to be ordered for the F-35, with production to run beyond 2035, and including large quantities of international orders. As of August 2007, 8 APG-81s have already been produced and delivered. The first three blocks of radar software have been developed, flight tested, and delivered ahead of schedule by the Northrop Grumman Corporation. Capabilities of the AN/APG-81 include the AN/APG-77's air-to-air modes plus advanced air-to-ground modes including high resolution mapping, multiple ground moving target detection and track, combat identification, electronic warfare, and ultra high bandwidth communications. The current F-22 production radar is the APG-77v1, which draws heavily on APG-81 hardware and software for its advanced air-to-ground capabilities.

In August 2005, the APG-81 radar was flown for the first time aboard Northrop Grumman's BAC 1–11. Since then, the radar system has accumulated over 300 flight hours. The first radar flight on Lockheed Martin's CATBird avionics test-bed occurred in November 2008.

In June 2009, the F-35s APG-81 active electronically scanned array radar was integrated in the Northern Edge 2009 large-scale military exercise when it was mounted on the front of a Northrop Grumman test aircraft. The test events "validated years of laboratory testing versus a wide array of threat systems, showcasing the extremely robust electronic warfare capabilities of the world's most advanced fighter fire control radar."

Announced on 22 June 2010: The radar met and exceeded its performance objectives successfully tracking long-range targets as part of the first mission systems test flights of the F-35 Lightning II BF-4 aircraft.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Actually, they are far better than the US and Israeli F-15, as well as the UAE F-16E are better than all versions USA operate. Google them.

No, it is actually better than what both use, the radar and EW systems are the same ones operated on the F-22 and F-35,

not correct;

I am in a position to say this; I got it from the horses's mouth since I was approached by the horse itself.

What I am glad about is that the horse is very knowledgeable and knows where the vendors are cheating and hiding details.
what is more impressive is that the horse is working on Plan b and Plan C ; engaging other sources and developing solutions.

 

[Dazzler]

Quote 3 (Wikiped) :

AN/APG-81

The AN/APG-81 is an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar system designed by Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems for the F-35 Lightning II.

The Joint Strike Fighter AN/APG-81 AESA radar is a result of the US government's competition for the world's largest AESA acquisition contract. Westinghouse Electronic Systems (acquired by Northrop Grumman in 1996) and Hughes Aircraft (acquired by Raytheon in 1997) received contracts for the development of the Multifunction Integrated RF System/Multifunction Array (MIRFS/MFA) in February 1996. Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman were selected as the winners of the Joint Strike Fighter competition; The System Development and Demonstration (SDD) contract was announced on 26 October 2001.

The AN/APG-81 is a successor radar to the F-22's AN/APG-77. Over 3,000 AN/APG-81 AESA radars are expected to be ordered for the F-35, with production to run beyond 2035, and including large quantities of international orders. As of August 2007, 8 APG-81s have already been produced and delivered. The first three blocks of radar software have been developed, flight tested, and delivered ahead of schedule by the Northrop Grumman Corporation. Capabilities of the AN/APG-81 include the AN/APG-77's air-to-air modes plus advanced air-to-ground modes including high resolution mapping, multiple ground moving target detection and track, combat identification, electronic warfare, and ultra high bandwidth communications. The current F-22 production radar is the APG-77v1, which draws heavily on APG-81 hardware and software for its advanced air-to-ground capabilities.

In August 2005, the APG-81 radar was flown for the first time aboard Northrop Grumman's BAC 1–11. Since then, the radar system has accumulated over 300 flight hours. The first radar flight on Lockheed Martin's CATBird avionics test-bed occurred in November 2008.

In June 2009, the F-35s APG-81 active electronically scanned array radar was integrated in the Northern Edge 2009 large-scale military exercise when it was mounted on the front of a Northrop Grumman test aircraft. The test events "validated years of laboratory testing versus a wide array of threat systems, showcasing the extremely robust electronic warfare capabilities of the world's most advanced fighter fire control radar."

Announced on 22 June 2010: The radar met and exceeded its performance objectives successfully tracking long-range targets as part of the first mission systems test flights of the F-35 Lightning II BF-4 aircraft.

I fail to understand the purpose of this prolonged post which provides well known information, APG-63 series is Raytheon lineup, APG-77 is Northrop Grumman's. There is a world of difference as both firms are competing against each other in export as well as domestic market but Grumman is the radar of choice for USAF which is evident when you see the USAF inventory, Raytheon is preferred by Navy though but only in case of Hornet/ SH series. However, Grumman enjoys a bigger chunk of the US market.

PS: F-35's APG-81 is a Grumman product

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

I fail to understand the purpose of this prolonged post which provides well known information, APG-63 series is Raytheon lineup, APG-77 is Northrop Grumman's. There is a world of difference as both firms are competing against each other in export as well as domestic market but Grumman is the radar of choice for USAF which is evident when you see the USAF inventory, Raytheon is preferred by Navy though but only in case of Hornet/ SH series. However, Grumman enjoys a bigger chunk of the US market.

PS: F-35's APG-81 is a Grumman product

Really? ^^

And i have my doubts about this that they are providing top notch radar and EW to Saudi AF equipment with the same specs they use or Israel use.

Actually, they are far better than the US and Israeli F-15, as well as the UAE F-16E are better than all versions USA operate. Google them.

No, it is actually better than what both use, the radar and EW systems are the same ones operated on the F-22 and F-35,

For the new ‘F-15SA’ which will equip RSAF (Royal Saudi Air Force)...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/236715-f-15sa-first-taxi-test-4.html#post3956710

Nope, F-22 uses APG-77 not APG-63V series and for EW, DEW is a variant of Raptors EW so should be capable but thats about all.

Wikiped :

AN/APG-63 radar family

The AN/APG-63 and AN/APG-70 are a family of all-weather multimode radar systems designed by Hughes Aircraft (now Raytheon) for the F-15 Eagle air superiority fighter. These X-band pulse-doppler radar systems are designed for both air-air and air-ground missions; they are able to look up at high-flying targets and down at low-flying targets without being confused by ground clutter. The systems can detect and track aircraft and small high-speed targets at distances beyond visual range down to close range, and at altitudes down to treetop level. The radar feeds target information into the aircraft's central computer for effective weapons delivery. For close-in dogfights, the radar automatically acquires enemy aircraft and projects this information onto the cockpit heads-up display.

AN/APG-63(V)2

The APG-63(V)2 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar has been retrofitted to 18 U.S. Air Force F-15C aircraft. This upgrade includes most of the new hardware from the APG-63(V)1, but adds an AESA to provide increased pilot situational awareness. The AESA radar has an exceptionally agile beam, providing nearly instantaneous track updates and enhanced multi-target tracking capability. The APG-63(V)2 is compatible with current F-15C weapon loads and enables pilots to take full advantage of the AIM-120 AMRAAM's capabilities, simultaneously intiating guidance for multiple missiles to several targets widely spaced in azimuth, elevation, or range.

AN/APG-63(V)3

The APG-63(V)3 radar is a more modern variant of the APG-63(V)2, applying the same AESA technology utilized in Raytheon's APG-79. The (V)3 is designed for retrofit into F-15C/D and deployed in Singapore's new F-15SG aircraft. Raytheon delivered the first prototype APG-63(V)3 system in June 2006.[1] The company started work on an initial production order in October 2007.

But...

No, it is actually better than what both use, the radar and EW systems are the same ones operated on the F-22 and F-35,

Exactly... ^^

Northrop Targets F-16 AESA, Eyes F-15 And F-18

September 17, 2012
By Graham Warwick
Source: Aerospace Daily & Defense Report

Northrop Grumman is eying the market to upgrade older Boeing F-15s and F-18s with active electronically scanned arrays (AESA) after flight testing a combination of the active-array radars it has developed for Lockheed Martin’s F-16 and F-35 fighters.

The May flight test in a BAC One-Eleven radar testbed owned by Northrop showed that the high-performance front-end array from the F-35’s APG-81 radar could be combined with the affordable back-end receiver/exciter/processor from the Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) under development for retrofit into the F-16.

Intended as a drop-in replacement for Northrop’s APG-66 and -68 mechanically scanned radars in the F-16, the SABR is sized to fit in the fighter’s nose without modification and operate within the available air-cooling capacity, and priced for the retrofit market.

The F-15 and F/A-18 can accommodate larger, more-powerful radars, like the liquid-cooled APG-81 AESA. But Northrop would have to oust incumbent Raytheon, which is already supplying AESAs for both aircraft.

The May flight test showed the performance on the APG-81 can be combined with the affordability of the SABR, says Pat Antkowiak, vice president and general manager of Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems’ advanced concepts and technology division.

The APG-81 transmit/receive array and SABR single-box receiver / exciter / processor (REP) were integrated and flown in the One-Eleven “in weeks,” he says.

The SABR REP has a more open architecture than the APG-81, which uses proprietary hardware and software. “This unlocks the insertion of new technology and opens the market for legacy platforms,” Antkowiak says.

“If we take the APG-81 technology and combine it with the affordability of the REP we have a value proposition, both domestically and internationally,” he says.

The U.S. Air Force plans to put some 300 Block 40/42 and 50/52 F-16C/Ds through a service life extension and combat avionics upgrade, including a new AESA radar, because of delays in development and fielding of the F-35A.

Lockheed will be prime integrator for the upgrade, but the USAF will conduct a separate competition for the AESA, says Joe Ensor, vice president and general manager of Northrop’s intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and targeting systems division.

Although the incumbent radar supplier on the F-16 , Northrop and its SABR will face competition from the Raytheon Advanced Capability Radar (RACR). “It will be a government source selection. We are awaiting a draft request for proposals,” says Ensor.

Beyond the F-16 market , the U.S. Navy has around 100 Block I F/A-18E/F Super Hornets that are candidates for a radar upgrade . Earlier F/A-18s operated domestically and internationally are also possibilities for AESA retrofits.

The Air Force is upgrading its F-15Es and some F-15Cs with Raytheon AESAs, but some older aircraft and F-15s operated by international customers remain candidates for radar retrofits.


Aviation Week

Quote 3 (Wikiped) :

AN/APG-81

The AN/APG-81 is an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar system designed by Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems for the F-35 Lightning II.

The Joint Strike Fighter AN/APG-81 AESA radar is a result of the US government's competition for the world's largest AESA acquisition contract. Westinghouse Electronic Systems (acquired by Northrop Grumman in 1996) and Hughes Aircraft (acquired by Raytheon in 1997) received contracts for the development of the Multifunction Integrated RF System/Multifunction Array (MIRFS/MFA) in February 1996. Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman were selected as the winners of the Joint Strike Fighter competition; The System Development and Demonstration (SDD) contract was announced on 26 October 2001.

The AN/APG-81 is a successor radar to the F-22's AN/APG-77. Over 3,000 AN/APG-81 AESA radars are expected to be ordered for the F-35, with production to run beyond 2035, and including large quantities of international orders. As of August 2007, 8 APG-81s have already been produced and delivered. The first three blocks of radar software have been developed, flight tested, and delivered ahead of schedule by the Northrop Grumman Corporation. Capabilities of the AN/APG-81 include the AN/APG-77's air-to-air modes plus advanced air-to-ground modes including high resolution mapping, multiple ground moving target detection and track, combat identification, electronic warfare, and ultra high bandwidth communications. The current F-22 production radar is the APG-77v1, which draws heavily on APG-81 hardware and software for its advanced air-to-ground capabilities.

In August 2005, the APG-81 radar was flown for the first time aboard Northrop Grumman's BAC 1–11. Since then, the radar system has accumulated over 300 flight hours. The first radar flight on Lockheed Martin's CATBird avionics test-bed occurred in November 2008.

In June 2009, the F-35s APG-81 active electronically scanned array radar was integrated in the Northern Edge 2009 large-scale military exercise when it was mounted on the front of a Northrop Grumman test aircraft. The test events "validated years of laboratory testing versus a wide array of threat systems, showcasing the extremely robust electronic warfare capabilities of the world's most advanced fighter fire control radar."

Announced on 22 June 2010: The radar met and exceeded its performance objectives successfully tracking long-range targets as part of the first mission systems test flights of the F-35 Lightning II BF-4 aircraft.

Northrop Grumman to pitch new AESA radar to export customers

07:34 11 Sep 2012
By: Dave Majumdar Washington DC

Northrop Grumman plans to offer a new radar based on the antenna of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter's (JSF) APG-81 active electronically scanned array (AESA) combined with the receiver, exciter and processors (REP) of its Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) to potential foreign upgrade customers.

Northrop has already test flown the new radar on its British Aircraft Corporation BAC 111 test-bed aircraft, says Patrick Antkowiak, vice president of the company's advanced concepts and technologies division.

"We put it on there in literally weeks and flew it on May 9th," Antkowiak says.

The new system would have the power and performance of the APG-81, but at much lower cost.

The SABR REP cannot be retrofitted back into the F-35 because APG-81 does not have a "backend" as such, instead most of the processing for the radar is performed in the JSF's core processors, says Joe Ensor, Northrop's vice president for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance and targeting systems.

Antkowiak says that though the new radar will be offered to both foreign and domestic customers, the radar is most likely to be offered for export to customers flying the Boeing F-15, F/A-18 or Lockheed F-16. That is because US F-15s and F/A-18s are already being upgraded with Raytheon-built AESA radar sets.

One of the advantages of using the APG-81 antenna is that it is already cleared for export, Ensor says. Therefore, it should not be difficult to get the new radar cleared for sale to foreign allies.


Flightglobal

 

[Bratva]

Bubblegum posted a letter in saudi defense forces thread in which US Asking assurance from UK in diplomatic language transfer of euro fighter must be such it doesnot affect israel quality dominance in region.

Even after such things. Saudis dont believe this F-15 will not have compromised quality performance parameters as CHROM9 pointed out, than all I can time will reveal such things.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

Bubblegum posted a letter in saudi defense forces thread in which US Asking assurance from UK in diplomatic language transfer of euro fighter must be such it doesnot affect israel quality dominance in region.

...

No it's wrong! ^^

Where did you get this information?

Israel is already totally intouchable unless you would be enough crazy to suicide in a nuclear Armageddon.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/236715-f-15sa-first-taxi-test-5.html#post3959992

 

[Mosamania]

Bubblegum posted a letter in saudi defense forces thread in which US Asking assurance from UK in diplomatic language transfer of euro fighter must be such it doesnot affect israel quality dominance in region.

Even after such things. Saudis dont believe this F-15 will not have compromised quality performance parameters as CHROM9 pointed out, than all I can time will reveal such things.

Chrome9 is NOT Saudi, he is a Pakistani who lives in KSA, what he did was quote an a site talking about the F-15S NOT the F-15SA.

 

[Mosamania]

 

[Dazzler]

Really? ^^








For the new ‘F-15SA’ which will equip RSAF (Royal Saudi Air Force)...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/236715-f-15sa-first-taxi-test-4.html#post3956710








But...




Exactly... ^^

SOrry friend, i dont buy this nonsense, bring some solid backing that your F-15SA is going to have a better or at least equally capable radar and EW as the F-22 otherwise, stop posting wiki rubbish. Yanks even refused their beloved Japs when they requested Raptors ad you think they will give Raptor tech to you while Israel is sitting in the neighbourhood?

Dream On

 

[Mosamania]

SOrry friend, i dont buy this nonsense, bring some solid backing that your F-15SA is going to have a better or at least equally capable radar and EW as the F-22 otherwise, stop posting wiki rubbish. Yanks even refused their beloved Japs when they requested Raptors ad you think they will give Raptor tech to you while Israel is sitting in the neighbourhood?

Dream On

You better believe it.

F-15E.info: Strike Eagle reference and resources - F-15E.info - F-15SA Differences

 

[Mosamania]

SOrry friend, i dont buy this nonsense, bring some solid backing that your F-15SA is going to have a better or at least equally capable radar and EW as the F-22 otherwise, stop posting wiki rubbish. Yanks even refused their beloved Japs when they requested Raptors ad you think they will give Raptor tech to you while Israel is sitting in the neighbourhood?

Dream On

Ooooh I am not done yet:

"The new and refurbished F-15 jets will be outfitted with a number of capabilities requested specifically by the Saudi military, Dennis Muilenburg, president and CEO of Boeing's defense, space and security division, told AOL Defense yesterday. Those Saudi-specific amenities include a new digital electronic warfare package, a "fly-by-wire' capability and the next-generation Active Electronically Scanned Array radar, he said. That is the same radar on board the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter."

Strike Eagle Sale Sets Stage For Lucrative SNEP II Deal