Everyone in India is a Hindu, says RSS chief

[EjazR]

Everyone in India is a Hindu, says RSS chief​

Protests against Muslims and Christians are not part of Hindutva, which is non-violent,

To give the new RSS chief credit, this is the first time I have heard someone clearly saying don't indulge in violence. I hope he is more open and clear cut in condemning violence done by groups like VHP, and BD which are more problematic than the RSS.

However, I would still prefer words like Hindustaniyat or Bharatiyata instead to describe Indianess.

 

[blueoval79]

My point was the convesion in India from hinduism to Christianity is outcome of your cast bases discriminatory system.

So instead of banning conversion it would be good to do away with cast system legally inacting laws

ohh...yes..The great Indian cast system to be blamed...once again......Poverty has nothing to do with caste system.....its and Individual ...social and a systemic failure............

Do you understand cast system...and why it is the way it is...today.....

Let me help you...

In Ancien India ....there was no constitution...no Laws and no Judiciary....people relied on a social suysttem based on their professions.. the society was devided based on an indviduals propfession...

So ...The teachers or religious scholars ..were called Brahmin's...
The fighters were called Kshatriyas..
Businessmen were called Vaishyas...
Then there was the kind of people who did the lowest of the profession...Cleaning.... Butchering...Cloth making....they were called Shudras...

and so ...on......and it was flexible...anyone could switch profession and become a Brahmin....

with time this whole arrangement got skewed...and Fcuked....because some people sitting on top did not want anyone sitting below move up the value chain..so the entire system became what it is right now.........all sitting on top became rich....and abused lower strata......this worsened during British Colonial times.....thats what you people sitting there in Pakistan don't want to believe....

Its been only 60 yrs ..of independence...and every country needs time to get rid of its bads....remember even you are fighting a battle to achieve a stable nation...a stable government.

 

[Nemesis]

Six pages to discuss statements of a bigoted moron. My head hurts. What a waste of bandwidth.

 

[rubyjackass]

Sub-standard religiously inflammatory one liner by a world champion ---> at what ..... flaming and fundamentalism? Smiley notwithstanding. (let me also put one to make my statement more "acceptable" )

Cheers, Doc

nice one.


Fun aside, everybody realized that Hindutva is not going to work. BJP knows it, even RSS knows it. But conservatives that they are, they are calling whatever good India wants as 'Hindutva' and trying to confuse people. Not an easy task. The word has already earned a bad reputation. Unless BJp and RSS come up with a lightning campaign with a brainwashing blitz nothing will change. Until then let them redefine, mould and twist 'Hindutva' into whatever they want. People are not that stupid, so we don't need to be scared.


Ruby.

 

[vsdoc]

Sunni and Shia are sects and not casts. Sunni and shia Muslims are equal in Islam and there is no discrimination against any or them.

They can pray at any mosque, they eat with each other and there is no untouchability practice in Islam no matter shia or sunni Muslim.

Unlike Hindusim where low cast Hinuds cant pray at same temple, they can not marry in 99% cases to a high cast hindus, they are considerd untouchable and all this is based on hinduism.

Hinduism has already has a social break up for low cast hindus and high cast hindus whereas in Islam there is no such things all Muslims are having equal rights according to Quran the only difference is based on your deeds. Not your cast or creed unlike hinduism.

What an idyllic and utopian paradise Jana!

Wasn't there some problem between Shias and Sunnis in some pakistani city yesterday? Some bomb blast or something (sorry, but one loses track when pakistan and violent incidents are concerned). Some 20-30 Shias killed? Saw some grisly scenes on TV last evening.

Maybe they live in a different pakistan to the one you do.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Righteous_Fire]

What an idyllic and utopian paradise Jana!

Wasn't there some problem between Shias and Sunnis in some pakistani city yesterday? Some bomb blast or something (sorry, but one loses track when pakistan and violent incidents are concerned). Some 20-30 Shias killed? Saw some grisly scenes on TV last evening.

Maybe they live in a different pakistan to the one you do.

Cheers, Doc

What jana was saying is not a fantasy that lives in ga ga land!!

What you people in India hear are news reports that make us look bad.

There are black sheep everywhere, what she is saying is the real life ground based experience, the 1st hand account. And, more importantly, the majority experience.

I have many friends, both Shia and Sunni, we never have had any bitter experiences. WHY?

Because there are certain flash points, notorious for such hatred, which are actually based more on tribal and regional disputes than actual caste hatred. Though if there is any true caste based violence it is mainly in the rural Punjab.

Elsewhere, like Hangu etc. you can not claim it to be a caste based hatred, the tribes there of various backgrounds duel it out from time to time. Such feuds do use sect based hatred but that is used by perpetrators on either side for rallying to their cause. Something which is transient and evanescent, starting after a tribal clash starts out and not before it.

Before rejecting out rightly, someone's 1st hand account, when you yourself have never been there, except from the comfort of your sofa and TV, as many Indians here always do, in the name of Nation and etc. etc. please take some time to perceive beyond such veils of self interests.

Without such efforts, peace and unity is a GRANDIOSE MYTH.

 

[vsdoc]

What jana was saying is not a fantasy that lives in ga ga land!!

What you people in India hear are news reports that make us look bad.

There are black sheep everywhere, what she is saying is the real life ground based experience, the 1st hand account. And, more importantly, the majority experience.

I have many friends, both Shia and Sunni, we never have had any bitter experiences. WHY?

Because there are certain flash points, notorious for such hatred, which are actually based more on tribal and regional disputes than actual caste hatred. Though if there is any true caste based violence it is mainly in the rural Punjab.

Elsewhere, like Hangu etc. you can not claim it to be a caste based hatred, the tribes there of various backgrounds duel it out from time to time. Such feuds do use sect based hatred but that is used by perpetrators on either side for rallying to their cause. Something which is transient and evanescent, starting after a tribal clash starts out and not before it.

Before rejecting out rightly, someone's 1st hand account, when you yourself have never been there, except from the comfort of your sofa and TV, as many Indians here always do, in the name of Nation and etc. etc. please take some time to perceive beyond such veils of self interests.

Without such efforts, peace and unity is a GRANDIOSE MYTH.

Hi buddy!

I recognise what i am doing only too well, but thanks for pointing it out.

Perceptive as you are, I'm sure you also recognise that your jumping to your nation and compatriot's defense works both ways buddy.

Every thread on this forum has the same components from both sides.

We claim the same with regards to absurd half-baked jingoistic self-serving generalizations on our country, our people, our form of government, our democarcy, our secularism, our minorities, etc. by people from your side.

And yes, in the absence of actually visiting each other, and living there for some time and getting to know the people and dynamics, we will have to post based on what we hear or see via the media.

I see shias being killed regularly in pakistan by the sunni majority ..... and I wonder about claims of Islamic brotherhood I hear here from pakistanis ...... for OUR Muslims ..... and the irony cannot escape me when I see how you treat YOUR OWN.

Then I read jana's beautiful sentimental prose ..... and the irony deepens.

Before that I read brilliant strategic prose on helping "brother muslims" in Palestine through a World Muslim Council media blitz.

Then I read about Wahabism.

Then I come to know about the Muhajirs.

Then I read about Ahmadi "Muslims"

Then I dig up more on Balochistan ..... and various other "istans" all over Pakistan.

Then daily here my Muslim/Islam vocabulary increases with terms like shariq and tafkiri and itihad and what not ..... and then I hear about umma and ghazwatulhind wet-dreams.

Then I read about your Christians being burnt.

Then I read about your Hindus fleeing to India.

Then I see your countrywomen being spanked/flogged in public by bearded men.

Everyday I get to see/hear/read about some new bomb blast, suicide bomber, etc. in your country.

I see your government playing games and refusing to bring to justice your countrymen who have killed hundreds of mine .... brazenly.

I see your sovereign nationhood being propped up by a foreign nation's alms and arms.

I see foreign armies marching on your soil day in and day out on TV.

And I wonder and marvel at your countrymen (and women) giving us holier than thou platitudes about our "problems."

Hope you see where I am coming from.

If you know of a better alternative, feel free to jump in and help me out.

Cheers, Doc

 

[jaunty]

What jana was saying is not a fantasy that lives in ga ga land!!

What you people in India hear are news reports that make us look bad.

There are black sheep everywhere, what she is saying is the real life ground based experience, the 1st hand account. And, more importantly, the majority experience.

I have many friends, both Shia and Sunni, we never have had any bitter experiences. WHY?

Because there are certain flash points, notorious for such hatred, which are actually based more on tribal and regional disputes than actual caste hatred. Though if there is any true caste based violence it is mainly in the rural Punjab.

Elsewhere, like Hangu etc. you can not claim it to be a caste based hatred, the tribes there of various backgrounds duel it out from time to time. Such feuds do use sect based hatred but that is used by perpetrators on either side for rallying to their cause. Something which is transient and evanescent, starting after a tribal clash starts out and not before it.

Before rejecting out rightly, someone's 1st hand account, when you yourself have never been there, except from the comfort of your sofa and TV, as many Indians here always do, in the name of Nation and etc. etc. please take some time to perceive beyond such veils of self interests.

Without such efforts, peace and unity is a GRANDIOSE MYTH.

Fair enough.

what she is saying is the real life ground based experience, the 1st hand account. And, more importantly, the majority experience.

Good point. But same applies to India also when people here try to degrade India with Muslim bias, caste bias etc and vsdoc was replying to such a post. The fact is that we have a nasty cast system in India which we are not proud of. The only way to get rid of it is by educating people. Let me give my 1st hand account here. My grand parents were much more conscious about casts, my parents became much liberal and I don't give a sh.t about it. So things are changing but it will take time to remove a system which has been there for ages and with economic growth things are changing. The economic growth is important here as I have seen that a person from lower cast but wealthy never face any bias in the society. Its the only poor class that suffers. So if we can make people more educated and economically independent then things will change. I can again say this about my generation that people care less about castes.

I have many friends, both Shia and Sunni, we never have had any bitter experiences. WHY?

I have friends from upper caste, lower caste hindu, muslim, christian and we never had any bitter experience. Why?

Before rejecting out rightly, someone's 1st hand account, when you yourself have never been there, except from the comfort of your sofa and TV, as many Indians here always do

I have seen many Pakistanis rejecting our 1st hand account about social things in India and they will always come up with news reports about caste bias, religious bias, how India is disintegrating etc. We accept bad elements are here in our society but no society is perfect. But I am proud of the fact that with so much diversity in our country(and I daresay no other country in the world has such diversity.)most of us still stand united as Indians


About the topic I just say its a new BS from an organization which has not much public support in India as people here perceive. I for one have met only one RSS member in my entire life so far and that is my 1st hand account.

 

[Spring Onion]

What an idyllic and utopian paradise Jana!

Wasn't there some problem between Shias and Sunnis in some pakistani city yesterday? Some bomb blast or something (sorry, but one loses track when pakistan and violent incidents are concerned). Some 20-30 Shias killed? Saw some grisly scenes on TV last evening.

Maybe they live in a different pakistan to the one you do.

Cheers, Doc

Lolzz like even many educated Indians who find escape wrongly comparing Hindu cast system with shia sunni issue in some Muslim countries. This is the last weak straw Indian Hindus cling to justfiy the discriminatory cast system.
The shia sunni issue in SOME Muslim countries is a political issue still on the basis of their sects there is no social discrimination.

1. Shia sunni can eat from one plate. They are equal human being unlike Hindu cast system where low cast Hindu even if touches a high cast Hindu, his life is made miserable. Low cast hindus and high cast hindus dont eat from one plate.

2. There is no touchability in Islam, all no matter which school of thoyght be shia or sunni, are all equal.

3. They pary at once place, one mosque there is no bar. Whereas in Hinduism low cast Hindus can not enter temples of high cast hindus.

and so on.

Above all all Muslims be he from shia school of thought of sunni school of thought, all of they perform the biggest Islamic ritual Hajj togather at one place, same dress, same procedure.



Hello hello doc wake up we are talking about social discrimination based on cast, and creed prevailing in Hinduism for the last thousands of years and it will continue till end if you guys refuse to accept it.

 

[R.A.W.]

Lolzz like even many educated Indians who find escape wrongly comparing Hindu cast system with shia sunni issue in some Muslim countries. This is the last weak straw Indian Hindus cling to justfiy the discriminatory cast system.
The shia sunni issue in SOME Muslim countries is a political issue still on the basis of their sects there is no social discrimination.

1. Shia sunni can eat from one plate. They are equal human being unlike Hindu cast system where low cast Hindu even if touches a high cast Hindu, his life is made miserable. Low cast hindus and high cast hindus dont eat from one plate.

2. There is no touchability in Islam, all no matter which school of thoyght be shia or sunni, are all equal.

3. They pary at once place, one mosque there is no bar. Whereas in Hinduism low cast Hindus can not enter temples of high cast hindus.

and so on.

Above all all Muslims be he from shia school of thought of sunni school of thought, all of they perform the biggest Islamic ritual Hajj togather at one place, same dress, same procedure.



Hello hello doc wake up we are talking about social discrimination based on cast, and creed prevailing in Hinduism for the last thousands of years and it will continue till end if you guys refuse to accept it.

Are we going to discuss which better... fighting on the name of shia sunni or on the basis of caste?

We should avoid religion from all this. else it will turn into hinduism vs islam.

What matters at the end of the day is a human dies.

 

[vsdoc]

The shia sunni issue in SOME Muslim countries is a political issue still on the basis of their sects there is no social discrimination.

Between socially discriminating against someone and blowing someone up, take your pick about the lesser of the 2 evils Jana.

1. Shia sunni can eat from one plate. Low cast hindus and high cast hindus dont eat from one plate.

No Indians like to eat from one plate. We find it pretty revolting. As for your views on caste/untouchability, you seem to be stuck in the Bhagat Singh era ..... India has moved on from those days, though admittedly not as far as Indians would like to on this issue.

2. There is no touchability in Islam

Well we Indians (including our Muslims) are different in that case ... we are a pretty touchy feely lot! LOL Does wonders for Indian brother/sisterhood

Cheers, Doc

 

[Spring Onion]

Hi buddy!

I recognise what i am doing only too well, but thanks for pointing it out.

Perceptive as you are, I'm sure you also recognise that your jumping to your nation and compatriot's defense works both ways buddy.

Every thread on this forum has the same components from both sides.

We claim the same with regards to absurd half-baked jingoistic self-serving generalizations on our country, our people, our form of government, our democarcy, our secularism, our minorities, etc. by people from your side.

And yes, in the absence of actually visiting each other, and living there for some time and getting to know the people and dynamics, we will have to post based on what we hear or see via the media.

I see shias being killed regularly in pakistan by the sunni majority ..... and I wonder about claims of Islamic brotherhood I hear here from pakistanis ...... for OUR Muslims ..... and the irony cannot escape me when I see how you treat YOUR OWN.

Then I read jana's beautiful sentimental prose ..... and the irony deepens.

Before that I read brilliant strategic prose on helping "brother muslims" in Palestine through a World Muslim Council media blitz.

Then I read about Wahabism.

Then I come to know about the Muhajirs.

Then I read about Ahmadi "Muslims"

Then I dig up more on Balochistan ..... and various other "istans" all over Pakistan.

Then daily here my Muslim/Islam vocabulary increases with terms like shariq and tafkiri and itihad and what not ..... and then I hear about umma and ghazwatulhind wet-dreams.

Then I read about your Christians being burnt.

Then I read about your Hindus fleeing to India.

Then I see your countrywomen being spanked/flogged in public by bearded men.

Everyday I get to see/hear/read about some new bomb blast, suicide bomber, etc. in your country.

I see your government playing games and refusing to bring to justice your countrymen who have killed hundreds of mine .... brazenly.

I see your sovereign nationhood being propped up by a foreign nation's alms and arms.

I see foreign armies marching on your soil day in and day out on TV.

And I wonder and marvel at your countrymen (and women) giving us holier than thou platitudes about our "problems."

Hope you see where I am coming from.

If you know of a better alternative, feel free to jump in and help me out.

Cheers, Doc

Doc nobody had stopped you from debating the above in relevent threads.

But if you are using the problems in other countries to justify the Hindu cast system then indeed it is unfortunate.


This thread is about RSS old Hindutva ideology hence it will be better to discuss all such things in context of this thread.

cheers

 

[Spring Onion]

Are we going to discuss which better... fighting on the name of shia sunni or on the basis of caste?

We should avoid religion from all this. else it will turn into hinduism vs islam.


What matters at the end of the day is a human dies.

The Indians members are making it Hinduism Vs Islam here in this thread just to justify the plauged cast system.

Otherwise this thread has nothing to with Islam.

And in this thread, we can not avoid discussing Hinduism because the RSS statement is based on the same.

The shia sunni issue is not at all relevent to this thread so why you are even bringing it into this thread in the first place.


I have no objection discussing it in relevent thread NOT here as it has nothing to with Hindu cast system

 

[vsdoc]

Doc nobody had stopped you from debating the above in relevent threads.

But if you are using the problems in other countries to justify the Hindu cast system then indeed it is unfortunate.


This thread is about RSS old Hindutva ideology hence it will be better to discuss all such things in context of this thread.

cheers

Jana, likewise nobody has stopped you from bringing up the caste bogey on threads dealing with that.

This thread was about a silly statement made by an Indian based on an ideology which most Indians do not subscribe to ..... as you no doubt saw on this thread itself.

Yet you felt obliged to jump in nonetheless and derail the thread with discussions on ills that plague the Hindu religion, rather than debating the topic at hand ..... are all Indians really "Hindu" or not ..... "Hindu" as a religion or a national identity/concept ..... and the basic though fundamental differences in the two often mutually exclusive viewpoints.

I would be glad to retract my statements if you begin by retracting yours ..... and yes, as any gallant and chivalrous Indian gentleman, I insist that the lady go first.

Cheers, Doc

 

[King Julien]

Lolzz like even many educated Indians who find escape wrongly comparing Hindu cast system with shia sunni issue in some Muslim countries. This is the last weak straw Indian Hindus cling to justfiy the discriminatory cast system.
The shia sunni issue in SOME Muslim countries is a political issue still on the basis of their sects there is no social discrimination.

1. Shia sunni can eat from one plate. They are equal human being unlike Hindu cast system where low cast Hindu even if touches a high cast Hindu, his life is made miserable. Low cast hindus and high cast hindus dont eat from one plate.

2. There is no touchability in Islam, all no matter which school of thoyght be shia or sunni, are all equal.

3. They pary at once place, one mosque there is no bar. Whereas in Hinduism low cast Hindus can not enter temples of high cast hindus.

and so on.

Above all all Muslims be he from shia school of thought of sunni school of thought, all of they perform the biggest Islamic ritual Hajj togather at one place, same dress, same procedure.



Hello hello doc wake up we are talking about social discrimination based on cast, and creed prevailing in Hinduism for the last thousands of years and it will continue till end if you guys refuse to accept it.

fortunately, we've already overcome these problem...
Its similar to how terrorists manipulate Islam and gets Jihad out of Quran for his personal benefit.... similarly in previous era brahmins exploited people with their power....
Point should be we've moved on... have you?