Chinese delegation sent to Russia to discuss stealth fighter engine

[Audio]

Would you like to explain why Russia would want to provide a 5th generation engine to a competing country?

The article speculates about joint production of AL-31. Pak-Fa has a further modified version delivering 15kN more called AL-41...

Then there's this:

In turn, the trade and investments will help Russia's economy.

One can be almost certain Chinese will dish out generous grants and deals in exchange for such a strategic know-how.
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I have checked the manufacturer's site and it say's they were invited by Russian Defense Minister, somewhat taking away from the notion Chinese wanted to buy engines, but giving more strength to the notion Russians want to sell something.

On October 31, 2013, the high dignitary from the PRC heading an official delegation, invited by Sergey Shoygu, Russian Defense Minister, visited Salut

FEDERAL STATE UNITARY ENTERPRISE «GAS-TURBINE ENGINEERING RESEARCH AND PRODUCTION CENTER «SALUT» | NEWS | NEWS | FSUE “Gas-Turbine Engineering RPC “Salut” receives a visit from Colonel-General Xu Qiliang, Vice-Chairman of the CPC Central Military Commission.

 

[UKBengali]

The article speculates about joint production of AL-31. Pak-Fa has a further modified version delivering 15kN more called AL-41...

Then there's this:



One can be almost certain Chinese will dish out generous grants and deals in exchange for such a strategic know-how.
---------------------------------------------------------

I have checked the manufacturer's site and it say's they were invited by Russian Defense Minister, somewhat taking away from the notion Chinese wanted to buy engines, but giving more strength to the notion Russians want to sell something.



FEDERAL STATE UNITARY ENTERPRISE «GAS-TURBINE ENGINEERING RESEARCH AND PRODUCTION CENTER «SALUT» | NEWS | NEWS | FSUE “Gas-Turbine Engineering RPC “Salut” receives a visit from Colonel-General Xu Qiliang, Vice-Chairman of the CPC Central Military Commission.

Fair enough.

Chinese are now mass producing the WS-10A that has 132KN of thrust. All J-11B/J-15/J-16s are being equipped with this engine. It has been tested on J-10B but I am not sure whether production J-10Bs are being equipped with it.

From here: Saturn AL-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

The most powerful version of AL-31F M2, 145KN of thrust, would deliver a little extra thrust that would be useful but it would not be logical to conclude that the Chinese could not increase the thrust of the WS-10A to these levels in a few years anyway when the J-20 would be ready for service.

It is not completely out of the question that the two countries could decide to jointly design and develop a brand new fifth generation engine.

 

[cirr]

Let's be clear about a few things：

（1）Chinese aero engine tech is at least 30 years ahead of India，even with the former coming under Western embargoes and the latter enjoying unlimited access to western know-how

（2）J-20 will be formally inducted into the PLAAF before 2016，using Russian engines before WS-20 is ready、proved reliable and can be mass-produced

（3）If Russia has technologies worth a partner of China's calibre，it is in the interests of both countries to come to terms for the former to provide the latter with requisite techs in exchange for much-needed funds for Russia，thereby shortening the development cycle for China。

（4）China will continue to purchase Russian military hardwares for political（together acting as a counterbalance to the US）、economic（rectifying trade imbalances in favour of China）and technological（decreasingly so）reasons。It is an area of cooperation that the enemies of the two countries least want to see。

 

[UKBengali]

Most of the Chinese poster will still claim that their technology is superior than Russia's.

In some areas China is ahead and in others Russia has an advantage.

China is ahead in avionics(including radar) and ship building technology.

The two are about equal in tank and SAM technology.

Russia has a lead in nuclear submarines and engines although that lead should be eliminated by the end of this decade.

 

[illusion8]

Most of the Chinese poster will still claim that their technology is superior than Russia's.

I guess you would have already figured out what "made in China" actually means. Not talking about the MNC's that utilize Chinese labor for their cheap production though.

 

[vostok]

Despite the fact that most likely some kind of assistance from Russia on this issue is available, the news itself is likely - fake. Personally, I saw the news on the portal Lenta.ru, - a very questionable source. Although I could be wrong.

 

[Beast]

 

Despite the fact that most likely some kind of assistance from Russia on this issue is available, the news itself is likely - fake. Personally, I saw the news on the portal Lenta.ru, - a very questionable source. Although I could be wrong.

I tell you what, the Chinese delegation friendly visit is probably truth but the Russian tabloid will twist and say whatever they want.

 

[vostok]

I tell you what, the Chinese delegation friendly visit is probably truth but the Russian tabloid will twist and say whatever they want.

This is not entirely Russian portal. One of those liberal media, sponsored by the West.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Let's be clear about a few things：

（1）Chinese aero engine tech is at least 30 years ahead of India，even with the former coming under Western embargoes and the latter enjoying unlimited access to western know-how

（2）J-20 will be formally inducted into the PLAAF before 2016，using Russian engines before WS-20 is ready、proved reliable and can be mass-produced

（3）If Russia has technologies worth a partner of China's calibre，it is in the interests of both countries to come to terms for the former to provide the latter with requisite techs in exchange for much-needed funds for Russia，thereby shortening the development cycle for China。

（4）China will continue to purchase Russian military hardwares for political（together acting as a counterbalance to the US）、economic（rectifying trade imbalances in favour of China）and technological（decreasingly so）reasons。It is an area of cooperation that the enemies of the two countries least want to see。

Now the WS-15 engine is testing on one of the J-20 prototypes, and it was reported by both American and Russian.

 

[j20blackdragon]

It's been debated for some time on informed forums around the net that J-20 with current Chinese engines would be way underpowered, useful only for bombing runs.

An underpowered J-20 still makes an excellent stealth interceptor in addition to being a bomber.

A J-20 "missile truck" with its large radar is quite capable of getting a "first-look, first-shot" advantage against the vast majority of aircraft in service today. Launching a barrage of PL-12s at BVR distances before turning around and going home is the ideal situation for the J-20 (and all stealth fighters) to be in, and is going to be a nightmare for all non-stealth enemy aircraft. Why risk an expensive 5th generation aircraft in a dogfight if you don't have to?

At closer ranges, modern day HMD systems and high off-boresight missiles are probably more important than maneuverability.

 

[UKBengali]

An underpowered J-20 still makes an excellent stealth interceptor in addition to being a bomber.

A J-20 "missile truck" with its large radar is quite capable of getting a "first-look, first-shot" advantage against the vast majority of aircraft in service today. Launching a barrage of PL-12s at BVR distances before turning around and going home is the ideal situation for the J-20 (and all stealth fighters) to be in, and is going to be a nightmare for all non-stealth enemy aircraft. Why risk an expensive 5th generation aircraft in a dogfight if you don't have to?

At closer ranges, modern day HMD systems and high off-boresight missiles are probably more important than maneuverability.

A J-20 powered by WS-10-series engine would still beat anything bar the F-22 easily.

 

[MilSpec]

This makes no sense.

Russia will NEVER help China build an engine that is powerful enough for the needs of the J-20.

The story sounds like another Su-35 fantasy that has been doing the rounds for years.

Please evaluate how many russian engines are used on chinese aircrafts.... you will get the answer

 

[UKBengali]

Please evaluate how many russian engines are used on chinese aircrafts.... you will get the answer

Supplying 1980s era engines for 4th generation fighters is one thing.

An engine that is powerful enough to power the fifth generation J-20 is another thing entirely, since Russia has not even inducted it's own fifth generation fighter itself.

 

[MilSpec]

Supplying 1980s era engines for 4th generation fighters is one thing.

An engine that is powerful enough to power the fifth generation J-20 is another thing entirely, since Russia has not even inducted it's own fifth generation fighter itself.

Fadec control, and TVR for AL31f series should be enough to power a J20 sized a/c... from simple physics there isn't anything taxing about a 5th gen fighter that an engine with sufficient bypass ratio and sensor fusion wont be able to achieve, unless you know something about j20 that we dont...

 

[UKBengali]

Fadec control, and TVR for AL31f series should be enough to power a J20 sized a/c... from simple physics there isn't anything taxing about a 5th gen fighter that an engine with sufficient bypass ratio and sensor fusion wont be able to achieve, unless you know something about j20 that we dont...

AL-31 series will not allow J-20 super-cruise at it's desired speed.

One of the goals that J-20 is designed to achieve is high Mach-1 super-cruise and even the most powerful AL-31 version is not enough.

Anyway, let us wait and see what happens.