China says it will defend North Korea

[Chinese-Dragon]

I thought you meant China should or will not intervene by the side of North Korea if there was a war.
Moreover, as long as China enters the war it will also be fighting for N.Koreans by default. So your point of China won't Sacrifice 1 single soldier for N.Korea is wrong I believe. China already sacrificed over 200,000 Chinese lives for N.Korea before(with the Soviets providing almost all of the weapons/equipments/aircrafts etc) even though Kim started the war.

My point is the sacrifice was never for North Korea, the sacrifice was to create a buffer zone for China.

And it will happen again, as you said there is still a mutual defence treaty.

 

[mike2000 is back]

No one wants to be 'on their toes' all the time. It is expensive and financially straining. When the USSR collapsed, did the US military expand ? No, we reduced in size and in presence. I was in your country, RAF Upper Heyford '83 to '87. Now the base is just one big car park. If we are in Asia, it is because we are needed/requested. Not because we have any grand designs.

True to some extent. I actually said U.S military presence in Asia is ironically for peace and stability than many people think. Since if not for that Japan and South Korea would have gone nuclear as well long ago and they might have been more aggressive militarily than they are today who knows. Rivalry in the region might have been more heated than otherwise as well. So remains to be seen how things might play out if the U S pulled out from the region.

My point is the sacrifice was never for North Korea, the sacrifice was to create a buffer zone for China.

.

The sacrifice might have been for creating a buffer zone, but it was still to protect N.Koreans (well, the regime.lol). Since the people have been thoroughly brainwashed it will be same result if the same thing happened today. Kim dynasty will be the last to suffer, the people will be the ones to bare all the death and destruction, while the Kim family prevails at the end. Lol

And it will happen again, as you said there is still a mutual defence treaty.

True it might happen, even though I think it's highly unlikely. Since communist China of 1950s Mao is totally different from the more realistic capitalistic China of today.
So any war which might affect China's economy and it's vast trade/investment ties with the West/world will be frowned upon by the government and the country's upper/ruling class. So possibility of China entering a war with the U.S is highly unlikely even if the U.S went to war with N.Korea to be honest. The stakes are too high.
Plus, yes the vast majority of countries in the world( (including Taiwan, Japan and S.Korea, China's other largest trading partners) won't side with the N.Korean regime unfortunately.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

True it might happen, even though I think it's highly unlikely. Since communist China of 1950s Mao is totally different from the more realistic capitalistic China of today.
So any war which might affect China's economy and it's vast trade/investment ties with the West/world will be frowned upon by the government and the country's upper/ruling class. So possibility of China entering a war with the U.S is highly unlikely even if the U.S went to war with N.Korea to be honest. The stakes are too high.
Plus, yes vast majority of countries in the war won't side with the N.Korea regime .

Well, a mutual defence treaty is a mutual defence treaty. This was also the case in the previous Korean War and the USA refused to believe that China cared so much about having a buffer zone that they would be willing to attack the US + 16 of her allies in Korea.

But yes, China wants that buffer zone, so much so that we are willing to stomach the Fat Kim family if that is what it takes.

China recently reiterated the terms of our mutual defence treaty with North Korea. If North Korea is attacked first, China will join the war on North Korea's side. If North Korea launches the first attack (unlikely) then the mutual defence treaty will be void. However, even in that case, China is still likely to demand a buffer zone.

A buffer zone is not much to ask, just like in the last Korean War. But the US under Trump is not a rational regime, even less so than the Fat Kims in my perspective.

 

[samsara]

If Trump is so eager... let him deal with the Fat Kim first
and China to deal with the North Korea after that.

Last thing Trump and his allies may keep dreaming is to advance the US military base across the Yalu River!

Aside from all the war drums in that Peninsula, they are more serving as attention diversion, a kind of Kabuki Show for the lame presidency of Trump. Or if there's anything real then the real target is China itself (hear something about China's yuan-based future oil contract backed up by gold to be launched in near future, a dire threat for the Petrodollar & WRC status?? ) with Pyongyang as the pretext... and a losing superpower can be truly dangerous! Also read somewhere that Pyongyang may have some $10T worth mineral deposit beneath its land plus some untapped oil resource, this can also be the true target to plunder for the Wall Street vultures.

 

[terranMarine]

It is completely stupid to even think for a moment that China would not honor the defence treaty. The defence treaty is just an official statement to proof China will never tolerate US base next to our border. In the past China came to rescue the Koreans when the Japs invaded, the first Korean War was no different either. The US government knows China will act hence didn't take military action against DPRK when the nuclear program was in the early stage of development, even after the first detonation Kerry was stuttering in front of the camera that US might have made things worse with those war threats and all of a sudden it just died down. This is the 6th test already and a big one, it's sanction again tada surprised? If US really wanted to take action it would have done so after the first test or second, not waiting for today witnessing a > 100 kt explosion. DPRK was even bold enough to send a missile flying over Japan triggering fear among the Japs. You have gotta to be really stupid if you think the US did not anticipate the North Koreans would be making such progress. They were already counting on it, so each time new tests were done a new set of sanctions are already set. The US can use the fear factor to place THAAD, sell more weapons to SK and JP to make up for the trade imbalance. Americans were already complaining that SK should pay more for US defence.

It has nothing to do about today's China is not Mao's era. Why else did US let DRPK continue developing the program when it could have launched a war. Because there was never a doubt China would have intervened.
The real goal for US is not to turn DPRK into the Middle East but to cash in and use it as an excuse to put more military assets on the peninsula. The purpose is to contain China and Russia in the East, the US couldn't care less DPRK having the capability to strike USA, it's just another tiny nuclear power next to China and Russia which already possessing such capabilities but is China and Russia a real threat to US? Are we like those cowboys trigger happy wanting to destroy US? The government knows Kim is not suicidal but likes to portray this kind of menacing character through MSM for the dump masses brainwashing the gullible American citizens. The US is not in danger okay?

 

[samsara]

Threat of Financial Nuke (12 SEP) is more imminent than the nuke itself

US Threatens To Cut Off China From SWIFT

“If China doesn’t follow these sanctions, we will put additional sanctions on them and prevent them from accessing the US and international dollar system – and that’s quite meaningful,” Mnuchin was quoted by Bloomberg during a conference in New York. - ZH ; SCMP

Such threat should not amuse CHN.

 

[Mav3rick]

Don't be fooled, North Korea is not a "peaceful" or "well-intentioned" country. The United States does not like it and so doesn't China ... the "alliance" is in name only. Remember how it sunk that poor South Korean frigate? If war breaks out, the first thing China would do is scrap that 1961 treaty and invade North Korea ... thereby establishing a buffer within the Korean peninsula itself. Basically, everybody wins but North Korea. China gets more minerals and a permanent buffer within Korea itself; the US & SK no longer have to deal with this pest ...

US must be the peaceful and well intentioned country, right? I mean it's not like the US has gone to war against any country in the past 30-40 years.

 

[pragmatic_dude]

Well, a mutual defence treaty is a mutual defence treaty. This was also the case in the previous Korean War and the USA refused to believe that China cared so much about having a buffer zone that they would be willing to attack the US + 16 of her allies in Korea.

But yes, China wants that buffer zone, so much so that we are willing to stomach the Fat Kim family if that is what it takes.

China recently reiterated the terms of our mutual defence treaty with North Korea. If North Korea is attacked first, China will join the war on North Korea's side. If North Korea launches the first attack (unlikely) then the mutual defence treaty will be void. However, even in that case, China is still likely to demand a buffer zone.

A buffer zone is not much to ask, just like in the last Korean War. But the US under Trump is not a rational regime, even less so than the Fat Kims in my perspective.

Hmm interesting .Some quick points based on my understanding :
The treaty cannot be cancelled suddenly requiring an advance notice of 1 year.If N.K does something radical the retaliation from West may be immediate leaving China in an embarrassing position to renege the treaty

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Hmm interesting .Some quick points based on my understanding :
The treaty cannot be cancelled suddenly requiring an advance notice of 1 year.If N.K does something radical the retaliation from West may be immediate leaving China in an embarrassing position to renege the treaty

The treaty has always been the same, China is bound to defend North Korea in case of a foreign attack on North Korea.

In the case of North Korea starting the first attack, the treaty doesn't apply.

But China will still demand a buffer zone in both cases, and use the mutual defence treaty as just another reason to seize such a buffer zone. Which may very well lead to the Korean War 2.0 depending on how the situation plays out.

 

[pragmatic_dude]

The treaty has always been the same, China is bound to defend North Korea in case of a foreign attack on North Korea.

In the case of North Korea starting the first attack, the treaty doesn't apply.

But China will still demand a buffer zone in both cases, and use the mutual defence treaty as just another reason to seize such a buffer zone. Which may very well lead to the Korean War 2.0 depending on how the situation plays out.

This is confusing.If the treaty becomes void if N.K attacks any third country....how can the treaty then be invoked to then make a demand for buffer zone?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

This is confusing.If the treaty becomes void if N.K attacks any third country....how can the treaty then be invoked to then make a demand for buffer zone?

You're right, if North Korea attacks first then the mutual defence treaty is void. China will find another reason to seize a buffer zone, there will always be a reason to be found, in the end China will have the buffer zone even if we need to voluntarily enter the war.

 

[samsara]

If Trump is so eager... let him deal with the Fat Kim first
and China to deal with the North Korea after that.

Last thing Trump and his allies may keep dreaming is to advance the US military base across the Yalu River!

Aside from all the war drums in that Peninsula, they are more serving as attention diversion, a kind of Kabuki Show for the lame presidency of Trump. Or if there's anything real then the real target is China itself (hear something about China's yuan-based future oil contract backed up by gold to be launched in near future, a dire threat for the Petrodollar & WRC status?? ) with Pyongyang as the pretext... and a losing superpower can be truly dangerous! Also read somewhere that Pyongyang may have some $10T worth mineral deposit beneath its land plus some untapped oil resource, this can also be the true target to plunder for the Wall Street vultures.

Missed to mention, the immediate new huge weapon orders from JPN KOR to USA MIC are the sure gains of the staged crisis in the Korean Peninsula. Added the BMD installations in KOR and JPN all gains for Washington nothing to lose from beating up this war drum. And at least Trump is gaining some success in making credits to the MIC interests, who knows he may also gain some kickback from MIC, just like the many Congressmen & Congresswomen and those generals at Pentagon. Weapon sales are huge businesses with very lucrative margins, can afford many kickbacks!

I'll expect Washington to keep on beating up the war drums in the peninsula, for all gains no pains... the bearers of the consequences and costs are all Asian nations... the Americans are just guests their homeland is in distance.

 

[aziqbal]

My point is the sacrifice was never for North Korea, the sacrifice was to create a buffer zone for China.

And it will happen again, as you said there is still a mutual defence treaty.

Buffer zone strategy is from the 1950s when china was a land force

Today buffer zone has very little relavence if any

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Buffer zone strategy is from the 1950s when china was a land force

Today buffer zone has very little relavence if any

Maybe it has less military relevance today compared to the last Korean War, but that doesn't mean China doesn't still want it.

After all, we are still upholding our mutual defence treaty with North Korea. To cancel the treaty, we must give notice 1 year in advance. But the Chinese government has shown no intention to cancel the treaty, which means we are still committed to war if any country attacks North Korea.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Well China wants peace in its North Eastern border area.

China knows what it is doing.