Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[The Eagle]

Today I saw an unusual flying of a Mirage over central Karachi, the bird was very low and clean (no undercarriage, no hard points, no external fuel tanks).

While losing altitude it lean right, still losing altitude it goes to bit right, the it straightened and fly level, then it took 45+ degree angle and start climbing.

Initially I was shocked as it looked like the plane is having issue and pilot is trying to control it. The thing was that it was way too clean, and had dusty gray look.

I have seen mirages land and take off on daily basis since years but that flying was unusual.

Can anyone explain that?? @The Eagle @Deino

For the time, all I can say is that it was just simply flying.

 

[Blacklight]

I think they cajoled Indians into buying Rafale. So what might not have worked for PAF worked for IAF. I still think they lost out as that 3 billion odd dollars would have come in handy. The sale to IAF mivht still have gone ahead as Rafale was a totally different fighter.

They bet on the wrong horse, and lost.

One question that has always bothered me is whether the frogs would have considered swapping Snecma M88(the Rafale engine) instead of M53 which was an old inefficient engine. Would it have made any difference to the M2K5's performance.
Help appreciated.
A

Absolutely! It would have reduced its thrust, putting aside the fact that a lot of customization would be needed to install it. It wouldnt be simple plug and play. The physical dimensions are different.

The M88 has a max thrust of 16,800 lbs, with afterburners, this is why Rafales have two of them.
The M53-P2 has a max thrust of 21,400 lbs, with afterburners. This is the engine most in service with M2k operators.

M88 - Proven performance and reliability

Wholly designed, developed and produced by Safran Aircraft Engines, the M88 powers Dassault Aviation’s Rafale multirole fighter deployed by French armed forces and export customers.

www.safran-group.com

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

Newer version of M53-P2, is the M53-PX3 or M53-P3 with an increased thrust of 22,640 lbs, The UAE is "supposed to be" its only customer.
Increased thrust is not the only thing it has, but some tech from the M88 has also filtered down to it. Increasing MTBO, reliability, and fuel consumption.

One Million Flight Hours for the M53 Engine

Snecma M53 - Archived 7/2008: Outlook | PDF | Aerospace Engineering | Engines

Mirage2000-5 Engine and updates

www.scribd.com

I hope the above was helpful.

Edit: Cost of M88 in 1995, US$110m / FR600m for 20 engines

Snecma boss refuses to bow to demands for M88 price cuts

NEW CONTROVERSY is surrounding Bernard Dufour, the recently installed president of French engine- manufacturer Snecma, with his refusal to accept the defence ministry's demand for a 2% reduction in the price of a batch of M88 fighter engines. Dufour caused a stir, shortly after he was named...

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Nomad40]

Today I saw an unusual flying of a Mirage over central Karachi, the bird was very low and clean (no undercarriage, no hard points, no external fuel tanks).

While losing altitude it lean right, still losing altitude it goes to bit right, the it straightened and fly level, then it took 45+ degree angle and start climbing.

Initially I was shocked as it looked like the plane is having issue and pilot is trying to control it. The thing was that it was way too clean, and had dusty gray look.

I have seen mirages land and take off on daily basis since years but that flying was unusual.

Can anyone explain that?? @The Eagle @Deino

Only flying nothing special, I have seen crazy stuff over KHI.

 

[Blacklight]

even free?

Given the newer tech in it, in comparison to our existing fleet, and with an ample supply of spares, like the Sea King deal, (where we only paid +/- US$300k for transportation), It could keep the M2k's flying for some time, but for how long? Unless there is a tacit french approval to directly / indirectly supply parts. The other way around it is getting parts & support from Egypt or UAE, given how the French are acting with Pakistan, like a bitch after a one night stand.
.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

We dont think that way besides 13 at this juncture when JFT is beginning to mature is going to send the/wrong signals. Lastly France will never allow the sale. Remember in 2003 when we had a deal ongoing for 58 Armie de Air M2K5s it was France that pulled out and offered us the Rafale instead.
A

IIRC around that time, the US told the PAF that they can get the F-16. Bush made the clearance official in 2004, but I was hearing (from uncles in drawing rooms) about the PAF evaluating the Block-50/52 in 2003. In fact, there were a series of news reports from Geo at the time saying that the US will sell us F-16s, but the US kept officially denying it until Bush's announced it.

Pre-Earthquake, the PAF was seeking to buy 55 Block-52+ (source: Flight International), so they were basically going all-in on the program. The Mirage 2000-5 would've been nice, but the French were shuttering its production and the design was analogous to the F-16. I think the PAF figured maintaining the M2K/-5 would've been really expensive. Yes, they chose the FC-20/J-10A (itself another comparable design to the F-16), however, it was in full production and would benefit from China's economies-of-scale.

 

[Talon]

Today I saw an unusual flying of a Mirage over central Karachi, the bird was very low and clean (no undercarriage, no hard points, no external fuel tanks).



While losing altitude it lean right, still losing altitude it goes to bit right, the it straightened and fly level, then it took 45+ degree angle and start climbing.



Initially I was shocked as it looked like the plane is having issue and pilot is trying to control it. The thing was that it was way too clean, and had dusty gray look.



I have seen mirages land and take off on daily basis since years but that flying was unusual.



Can anyone explain that?? @The Eagle @Deino

If close to the runway then Engine Flameout practice.. maybe

What happened to those Egyptian Mirages btw?

Your neighbor happened..

It was a clickbait story, much like most things on here.

The deal was real..

 

[HRK]

The deal was real..

which deal Mirage-V deal with Egypt or the following supposed story which I believe is false

Qatar Mirage 2000 coming to Pakistan in November 2021. Does anyone has anyone information?

 

[The Eagle]

It was a clickbait story, much like most things on here.

You may have issues with things here or may be "Here" but you may known well that you are also part of "here". No need to take cheap shots.

which deal Mirage-V deal with Egypt or the following supposed story which I believe is false

EAF Mirages

 

[khanasifm]

 

[Talon]

which deal Mirage-V deal with Egypt or the following supposed story which I believe is false

Sir EAF mirages of course

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Blacklight]

Sir EAF mirages of course

What I feel sad about, is the MICA's we lost.

 

[Talon]

What I feel sad about, is the MICA's we lost.

and some extra years we could keep mirages in the air..

 

[Blacklight]

and some extra years we could keep mirages in the air..

THAT I am happy about!! I want these relics gone, let the fly boys feel the pressure, and ramp up production of JF17, or buy something off the shelf, but for Gods sake get rid of these relics!

 

[Talon]

THAT I am happy about!! I want these relics gone, let the fly boys feel the pressure, and ramp up production of JF17, or buy something off the shelf, but for Gods sake get rid of these relics!

There's still no replacement for Mirage's role...