Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[airomerix]

Are you saying a civilian politician actually had a say in arms acquisition in Pakistan?

They always have. Ever heard of submarine scandal?

 

[MastanKhan]

It was stated by Son of PAF officer who assigned Mirage file at MOD. Son is ex PAF pilot too. BB threw file on floor ask extra money added

Hi,

The officer should have swallowed his pride and added more money to get the best fighter / strike aircraft---.

As for taking money for the Augusta---the best submarine---the best bang of r the buck---big deal if some money was taken as bribe---.

The Pak navy tried to get the worst possible submarine---the british subs that Benzair rejected because no kick backs---.

Guess where thos british subs are now---rusting buckets somewhere in the submarine junkyards---.

At least Benazir got eh Best sub with the best bang for the buck---and here we are waiting for those subs to be upgraded to 21st century standards---.

One must never let stupidity hold them back when getting a critical weapons system.

By the way---if that army officer's young daughter was dying of ailment and the drug was not readily available---he would have spent as much as he could have to buy that medicine for saving her life---.

Only when it comes to mother land---some of these officers become saints---.

 

[ZedZeeshan]

Hi,

The officer should have swallowed his pride and added more money to get the best fighter / strike aircraft---.

As for taking money for the Augusta---the best submarine---the best bang of r the buck---big deal if some money was taken as bribe---.

The Pak navy tried to get the worst possible submarine---the british subs that Benzair rejected because no kick backs---.

Guess where thos british subs are now---rusting buckets somewhere in the submarine junkyards---.

At least Benazir got eh Best sub with the best bang for the buck---and here we are waiting for those subs to be upgraded to 21st century standards---.

One must never let stupidity hold them back when getting a critical weapons system.

By the way---if that army officer's young daughter was dying of ailment and the drug was not readily available---he would have spent as much as he could have to buy that medicine for saving her life---.

Only when it comes to mother land---some of these officers become saints---.

Agreed

 

[Tipu7]

Mr 10% upto his tricks.
A

Asif Ali Zardari has nothing to do with M2K-05 which we evaluated back in 90s.
In fact it was Army who forced airforce to abandon expensive M2K and instead procure surplus Mirages III/V. Even that deal was littered by kickbacks (again, Uniforms were involved)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Asif Ali Zardari has nothing to do with M2K-05 which we evaluated back in 90s.
In fact it was Army who forced airforce to abandon expensive M2K and instead procure surplus Mirages III/V. Even that deal was littered by kickbacks (again, Uniforms were involved)

This is the verifiable account. The PAF had tried to ink the M2K-5 contract, but the deal collapsed after BB's gov't fell. Part of it was on Pakistan's political instability, but the French Ministry of Finance wasn't playing ball either as it didn't want to release a loan to back the deal. It seems the last good opportunity the PAF had was in the early 2000s when it had the option to buy used ex-French M2K-5s, but at that point, the US agreed to release the F-16s.

 

[araz]

This is the verifiable account. The PAF had tried to ink the M2K-5 contract, but the deal collapsed after BB's gov't fell. Part of it was on Pakistan's political instability, but the French Ministry of Finance wasn't playing ball either as it didn't want to release a loan to back the deal. It seems the last good opportunity the PAF had was in the early 2000s when it had the option to buy used ex-French M2K-5s, but at that point, the US agreed to release the F-16s.

More so the cost quoted for these 59 armie de aire second hand planes was 60 million a pop although the deal included enough spares for us to be happy for the next 20 years. I think it was a missed chance but I also think that the US as usual put a spanner in the works by offering us F16s
A

Asif Ali Zardari has nothing to do with M2K-05 which we evaluated back in 90s.
In fact it was Army who forced airforce to abandon expensive M2K and instead procure surplus Mirages III/V. Even that deal was littered by kickbacks (again, Uniforms were involved)

I am talking about the BB Govtt that was brougt down by Farooq Leghari. I have mentioned my contact who was instrumental in the deal. I am inclined to believe him as I have heard the story from other sources as well. I generally do not press my point unless I have it on good authority but please feel free to disagree.
PAF has tried to procure M2Ks on multiple occasions and unfortunately failed. This maybe one of the reasons why there is confusion on what happened when
Kind regards.
A

 

[ziaulislam]

This is the verifiable account. The PAF had tried to ink the M2K-5 contract, but the deal collapsed after BB's gov't fell. Part of it was on Pakistan's political instability, but the French Ministry of Finance wasn't playing ball either as it didn't want to release a loan to back the deal. It seems the last good opportunity the PAF had was in the early 2000s when it had the option to buy used ex-French M2K-5s, but at that point, the US agreed to release the F-16s.

if the french won't release used ones at a cheap price than m2K dont hold much attractiveness and they weren't ready to do so given India lucrative business and rafale factor..

anyway budget wouldnt allow it either

i guess PAF should stick to mirage3 till 2030 and focus on thunder and f16s if it can
what i am interested in is whether mirage 3 upgrade is affordable or not(new wings & rd 93) given someone has done the research work aleady (south africa)

 

[araz]

if the french won't release used ones at a cheap price than m2K dont hold much attractiveness and they weren't ready to do so given India lucrative business and rafale factor..

anyway budget wouldnt allow it either

i guess PAF should stick to mirage3 till 2030 and focus on thunder and f16s if it can
what i am interested in is whether mirage 3 upgrade is affordable or not(new wings & rd 93) given someone has done the research work aleady (south africa)

I would have asked them to sell the whole assembly line wth provisions to upgrade the engine. That might have been a deal worth doing but then the French wanted to peddle the Rafale and although PAF liked te plane it found initial and operating costs too much.
A

 

[Adam_Khan]

It had more to do with the fact that we simply didn't have the money to buy the aircraft,the plan was to buy 32 Mirage 2000-5 aircraft but because Pakistan wanted the payment duration to be increased the price of the whole deal went beyond 4 billion dollars. At that time the government also changed and that was the death knell for the deal.

Corruption part is always there in the deal but not to the extent that one man is responsible for ruining a deal,also this kind of corruption has benefited both civilians and people in the uniform.

 

[araz]

if the french won't release used ones at a cheap price than m2K dont hold much attractiveness and they weren't ready to do so given India lucrative business and rafale factor..

anyway budget wouldnt allow it either

i guess PAF should stick to mirage3 till 2030 and focus on thunder and f16s if it can
what i am interested in is whether mirage 3 upgrade is affordable or not(new wings & rd 93) given someone has done the research work aleady (south africa)

Someone should really record the saga of the PAF tryig to buy the M2Ks and other french planez including in itcthe story of the M3/5s as a story of success.
A

 

[Adam_Khan]

From The story of Pakistan Airforce 1988-1998 regarding Mirage 2K deal. PAF was also offered second hand Mirage 2000C's which they declined to buy.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

From The story of Pakistan Airforce 1988-1998 regarding Mirage 2K deal. PAF was also offered second hand Mirage 2000C's which they declined to buy.View attachment 634356 View attachment 634357

I am guessing the used Mirage 2000C offer was the Mirage 2000 Light?

if the french won't release used ones at a cheap price than m2K dont hold much attractiveness and they weren't ready to do so given India lucrative business and rafale factor..

anyway budget wouldnt allow it either

i guess PAF should stick to mirage3 till 2030 and focus on thunder and f16s if it can
what i am interested in is whether mirage 3 upgrade is affordable or not(new wings & rd 93) given someone has done the research work aleady (south africa)

I would have asked them to sell the whole assembly line wth provisions to upgrade the engine. That might have been a deal worth doing but then the French wanted to peddle the Rafale and although PAF liked te plane it found initial and operating costs too much.
A

It had more to do with the fact that we simply didn't have the money to buy the aircraft,the plan was to buy 32 Mirage 2000-5 aircraft but because Pakistan wanted the payment duration to be increased the price of the whole deal went beyond 4 billion dollars. At that time the government also changed and that was the death knell for the deal.

Corruption part is always there in the deal but not to the extent that one man is responsible for ruining a deal,also this kind of corruption has benefited both civilians and people in the uniform.

It's worth remembering that in the early 1990s, the PAF didn't know the Mirage 2000-5 could emerge as a solid strike fighter. This became apparent after the H-2/H-4 and Ra'ad caught on, at that point, the PAF looked for the Mirage 2000-9, but by then, Dassault said it was ending production. I think had the deep strike value of the M2K-5 been apparent, the PAF would've been OK getting even 24 M2K-5s (and build-up gradually).

 

[Adam_Khan]

I am guessing the used Mirage 2000C offer was the Mirage 2000 Light?


I've an old copy of Jane's All the world aircraft, that states that Pakistan was offered 32 Mirage 2000C aircraft in early 90's but the offer was not picked. Don't think there has been a version of M2K called M2K Light,probably it was in the pipeline back then.



It's worth remembering that in the early 1990s, the PAF didn't know the Mirage 2000-5 could emerge as a solid strike fighter. This became apparent after the H-2/H-4 and Ra'ad caught on, at that point, the PAF looked for the Mirage 2000-9, but by then, Dassault said it was ending production. I think had the deep strike value of the M2K-5 been apparent, the PAF would've been OK getting even 16 M2K-5s (and build-up gradually).

I am guessing the used Mirage 2000C offer was the Mirage 2000 Light?






It's worth remembering that in the early 1990s, the PAF didn't know the Mirage 2000-5 could emerge as a solid strike fighter. This became apparent after the H-2/H-4 and Ra'ad caught on, at that point, the PAF looked for the Mirage 2000-9, but by then, Dassault said it was ending production. I think had the deep strike value of the M2K-5 been apparent, the PAF would've been OK getting even 24 M2K-5s (and build-up gradually).

I've an old copy of Jane's All the world aircraft, that states that Pakistan was offered 32 early version of Mirage 2000 aircraft in 90's but the offer was not picked. Don't think there has been a version of M2K called M2K Light,probably it was in the pipeline back then.

 

[HRK]

I've an old copy of Jane's All the world aircraft, that states that Pakistan was offered 32 Mirage 2000C aircraft in early 90's but the offer was not picked.

read here
BTW if possible just for sake of compiling record you could post historic news articles or reports about PAF in the same thread as posted above

 

[ziaulislam]

I am guessing the used Mirage 2000C offer was the Mirage 2000 Light?






It's worth remembering that in the early 1990s, the PAF didn't know the Mirage 2000-5 could emerge as a solid strike fighter. This became apparent after the H-2/H-4 and Ra'ad caught on, at that point, the PAF looked for the Mirage 2000-9, but by then, Dassault said it was ending production. I think had the deep strike value of the M2K-5 been apparent, the PAF would've been OK getting even 24 M2K-5s (and build-up gradually).

one thing is for sure 4billion $ is really really expensive..and upgrades that would have been needed now would have been as much as expensive as we saw with Indians..spent 2.4b$ on upgrades and it till cant carry meteor

the alternative was 1 billion deal for 50 fighter jets avionics package for jf-17 and seemed that was final blow to the deal