Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[araz]

From The story of Pakistan Airforce 1988-1998 regarding Mirage 2K deal. PAF was also offered second hand Mirage 2000C's which they declined to buy.View attachment 634356 View attachment 634357

The political wranglings mentioned amounted to 10 million per plane added to the contract. I know this is probably the norm in various deals as widespread mention is made of Anwar Shamim and 40 million dollars which were handed to him for the 16 deal but even by that standard this amounted to 400 million dollars for the deal. Benazir was very much aware of what went on and actually asked the gentleman concerned wheter he had adjusted the figures as advised by Mr Asif Zardari. On his answer in the negative she threw the file out and told him not to return without adjusting the figures.
A

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The political wranglings mentioned amounted to 10 million per plane added to the contract. I know this is probably the norm in various deals as widespread mention is made of Anwar Shamim and 40 million dollars which were handed to him for the 16 deal but even by that standard this amounted to 400 million dollars for the deal. Benazir was very much aware of what went on and actually asked the gentleman concerned wheter he had adjusted the figures as advised by Mr Asif Zardari. On his answer in the negative she threw the file out and told him not to return without adjusting the figures.
A

These bastards are much worse than the Indians as far as working against the Pak interests are concerned...

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

one thing is for sure 4billion $ is really really expensive..and upgrades that would have been needed now would have been as much as expensive as we saw with Indians..spent 2.4b$ on upgrades and it till cant carry meteor

the alternative was 1 billion deal for 50 fighter jets avionics package for jf-17 and seemed that was final blow to the deal

Yep. This is also $4 billion in 1990s currency. So, imagine how much of the military's development funding would've been locked-up, and for how long, financing this deal.

The political wranglings mentioned amounted to 10 million per plane added to the contract. I know this is probably the norm in various deals as widespread mention is made of Anwar Shamim and 40 million dollars which were handed to him for the 16 deal but even by that standard this amounted to 400 million dollars for the deal. Benazir was very much aware of what went on and actually asked the gentleman concerned wheter he had adjusted the figures as advised by Mr Asif Zardari. On his answer in the negative she threw the file out and told him not to return without adjusting the figures.
A

The M2K/-5 was also an expensive fighter, full-stop.

The corruption probably wasn't the reason why it fell through, but because Pakistan couldn't get a financing arrangement that will support it without tying up too much of the cash flow for too long.

 

[jupiter2007]

Pakistan should look for surplus Mirage-2000 B/D/N for stop gap purpose.

 

[Imran Khan]

Pakistan should look for surplus Mirage-2000 B/D/N for stop gap purpose.

we dont have any gap our thunders can fill any gap

 

[jupiter2007]

we dont have any gap our thunders can fill any gap

Current inventory has between 200 - 250 older planes.

7 Squadron Bandits Mirage III ROSE I
8 Squadron Haiders Mirage 5PA2/PA3
15 Squadron Cobras Mirage 5PA
17 Squadron Tigers F-7PG
23 Squadron Talons F-7PG
25 Squadron Eagles Mirage 5 ROSE II
27 Squadron Zarrars Mirage 5 ROSE III


if we have limited production of Jf-17 block 3, It will take 20 years to replace older planes.

 

[Imran Khan]

Current inventory has between 200 - 250 older planes.

7 Squadron Bandits Mirage III ROSE I
8 Squadron Haiders Mirage 5PA2/PA3
15 Squadron Cobras Mirage 5PA
17 Squadron Tigers F-7PG
23 Squadron Talons F-7PG
25 Squadron Eagles Mirage 5 ROSE II
27 Squadron Zarrars Mirage 5 ROSE III


if we have limited production of Jf-17 block 3, It will take 20 years to replace older planes.

if we see past we have good speed of replacing them sir . it will not be jet vs jet replacement . 100 block -3 will replace all of them .

 

[syed_yusuf]

if we see past we have good speed of replacing them sir . it will not be jet vs jet replacement . 100 block -3 will replace all of them .

more like 112 appx

 

[Imran Khan]

more like 112 appx

i was saying as per plan sir may be they can reach 112 or 125 or even 150 who knows . when they have no order they make own 1sqn

 

[Incog_nito]

JF-17 program is meant to replace only F-7s and A-5Cs and maybe only 150 to 200 will be made.

Whereas for Mirage III/Vs replacement J-10 series, J-31, and maybe some other aircraft from the EU can be considered.

 

[Yasser76]

Current inventory has between 200 - 250 older planes.

7 Squadron Bandits Mirage III ROSE I
8 Squadron Haiders Mirage 5PA2/PA3
15 Squadron Cobras Mirage 5PA
17 Squadron Tigers F-7PG
23 Squadron Talons F-7PG
25 Squadron Eagles Mirage 5 ROSE II
27 Squadron Zarrars Mirage 5 ROSE III


if we have limited production of Jf-17 block 3, It will take 20 years to replace older planes.

PG's are only 15-20 years old. Quite "young" in PAF terms. By all accounts it still has a decent radar and turning ability, coupled with AIM-9L/M its almost BVR capable and can act as a decent gap filler and point defence aircraft. Also I know in PAF it's valued as a lead in trainer and DACM aircraft. The two Sqds we have are at based at Peshawar and Samunguli, so facing Iran and Afghanistan for routine air patrol duties. For that role they are more then enough as we do not expect armed confrontation in the air from these two in the future. I don't see the F-7PG leaving service for at least another 10 years.

Mirages are another story. Even the ROSE upgrade now is dated. PAF were very clever in obtaining a stock of relatively low hour airframes from all over the Middle East, France and Australia. Reserve is such we can just get any spare part we want from airframes in stock, no need to even go to manufacturer and where we do need to make something basic PAC has been doing for years. Essentially PAC could make a brand new Mirage from scratch if you asked them. This has made operating Mirage easy and cheap. Unlike issue India has with Jaguar which is same age. They have big fleet but no major spares reserve or spare air frames HAL has to produce every new part they need, also Jaguar is very under powered (they cancelled new engines over cost), Mirage was verlucky in having powerful ATAR engine. Not only had this enabled it to carry heavy loads like RAAD and H2/H4 but also provide enough surplus power for new equipment (Grifo radar, EW etc). This is why PAF love this plane.

Issue now is cost of upgrading this plane (replacing ATAR engine, AESA radar, ECM kit, new cockpit, HMD etc) is simply not worth it anymore. Add to that maintenece hours that increase for every flight hour due to age, training pilots to fly this plane. All of this is not worth it when we are churning out JF-17s at a relatively low cost and JF-17 has more capability. Only issue is we have simply so many Mirage Sqds that it will take at least another 5 years to fully replace all the fleet.

 

[khanasifm]

PG's are only 15-20 years old. Quite "young" in PAF terms. By all accounts it still has a decent radar and turning ability, coupled with AIM-9L/M its almost BVR capable and can act as a decent gap filler and point defence aircraft. Also I know in PAF it's valued as a lead in trainer and DACM aircraft. The two Sqds we have are at based at Peshawar and Samunguli, so facing Iran and Afghanistan for routine air patrol duties. For that role they are more then enough as we do not expect armed confrontation in the air from these two in the future. I don't see the F-7PG leaving service for at least another 10 years.

Mirages are another story. Even the ROSE upgrade now is dated. PAF were very clever in obtaining a stock of relatively low hour airframes from all over the Middle East, France and Australia. Reserve is such we can just get any spare part we want from airframes in stock, no need to even go to manufacturer and where we do need to make something basic PAC has been doing for years. Essentially PAC could make a brand new Mirage from scratch if you asked them. This has made operating Mirage easy and cheap. Unlike issue India has with Jaguar which is same age. They have big fleet but no major spares reserve or spare air frames HAL has to produce every new part they need, also Jaguar is very under powered (they cancelled new engines over cost), Mirage was verlucky in having powerful ATAR engine. Not only had this enabled it to carry heavy loads like RAAD and H2/H4 but also provide enough surplus power for new equipment (Grifo radar, EW etc). This is why PAF love this plane.

Issue now is cost of upgrading this plane (replacing ATAR engine, AESA radar, ECM kit, new cockpit, HMD etc) is simply not worth it anymore. Add to that maintenece hours that increase for every flight hour due to age, training pilots to fly this plane. All of this is not worth it when we are churning out JF-17s at a relatively low cost and JF-17 has more capability. Only issue is we have simply so many Mirage Sqds that it will take at least another 5 years to fully replace all the fleet.

With just 2400 hours total life compared to ~8000 hours airframe life for f-16 and mirages they will be gone sooner or later by the end of 2024 when all Blcok 3 and dual seater are delivered at least that what I think now paf has developed a package to extend life of some of dual seater f-7 by 200 hour per airframe w/o OEM per paf history and still flying some older in LIFT to take every hour left on an Airframe in the fleet so ...

cheers

 

[aziqbal]

before any of the Mirages are retired we need to first remove all F7PGs

we got 40 units from China during Kargil standoff and I believe we still never paid for them so we are not losing anything by scrapping them

its a poor interceptor although its engine is very quite, I have seen these F7PG and engine is super quite

Mirage on the other hand is a ear blaster but a good test bed for PAF weapons integration and testing

 

[Trailer23]

DAYMN BOY Give us Mirages next

Video's done 95% - The 5% is where I try to perfect it to the Max.
Just need to clean up as many logo's on the sides.
Titles.

Note sure about effects, will see.

Might take a Day or two.

 

[jupiter2007]

PG's are only 15-20 years old. Quite "young" in PAF terms. By all accounts it still has a decent radar and turning ability, coupled with AIM-9L/M its almost BVR capable and can act as a decent gap filler and point defence aircraft. Also I know in PAF it's valued as a lead in trainer and DACM aircraft. The two Sqds we have are at based at Peshawar and Samunguli, so facing Iran and Afghanistan for routine air patrol duties. For that role they are more then enough as we do not expect armed confrontation in the air from these two in the future. I don't see the F-7PG leaving service for at least another 10 years.

Mirages are another story. Even the ROSE upgrade now is dated. PAF were very clever in obtaining a stock of relatively low hour airframes from all over the Middle East, France and Australia. Reserve is such we can just get any spare part we want from airframes in stock, no need to even go to manufacturer and where we do need to make something basic PAC has been doing for years. Essentially PAC could make a brand new Mirage from scratch if you asked them. This has made operating Mirage easy and cheap. Unlike issue India has with Jaguar which is same age. They have big fleet but no major spares reserve or spare air frames HAL has to produce every new part they need, also Jaguar is very under powered (they cancelled new engines over cost), Mirage was verlucky in having powerful ATAR engine. Not only had this enabled it to carry heavy loads like RAAD and H2/H4 but also provide enough surplus power for new equipment (Grifo radar, EW etc). This is why PAF love this plane.

Issue now is cost of upgrading this plane (replacing ATAR engine, AESA radar, ECM kit, new cockpit, HMD etc) is simply not worth it anymore. Add to that maintenece hours that increase for every flight hour due to age, training pilots to fly this plane. All of this is not worth it when we are churning out JF-17s at a relatively low cost and JF-17 has more capability. Only issue is we have simply so many Mirage Sqds that it will take at least another 5 years to fully replace all the fleet.

Our production rate of Block 3 is very low, we should have 35 to 50 block 3 by 2025. Replacing 5 squadrons of Mirage with JF-17 in 5 years is impossible.