Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Tank131]

Lets remember that Rafale was offered to PAF but the finances were not there. Beyond this they offer Marlin Subs which PN refused in favor. Of U214. They also offered RC-400 and MICA & for JF-17 but PAF chose to stick to chinese options. That being said, im not sure what Pakistan could get from france from a defensive perspective unless they actually go for Rafale. The TopOwl HMD/S with Meteor and MICA would be great but that would demand PAF go with the Grifo E-scan for JF-17, which seems unlikely at this point as the KLJ-7A and LKF601E seem to outrange it. Additionally the Chinese do not seem to be keen on others getting access to their codes to allow weapons integration.

I think that if Pakistan will buy anything it may be more airbuses for PIA.

 

[HRK]

Just for sake of record ....

They also offered RC-400 and MICA & for JF-17 but PAF chose to stick to chinese options.

they refused to sell after initial negotiation, due to their interest in Indian MMRCA tender ....

they offer Marlin Subs

PN was seeking a proven operational design at that time, while Marlin was on drawing board and never materialise as an operational system ....

 

[khanasifm]

Yes it's is just asking what products Pak interested I believe if we realy buy European Jett EF is our bett rest as other friends saying probably subsystems

Egyptian mirages deal ?

 

[GriffinsRule]

Just for sake of record ....

they refused to sell after initial negotiation, due to their interest in Indian MMRCA tender ....

PN was seeking a proven operational design at that time, while Marlin was on drawing board and never materialise as an operational system ....

Now that the Indian deal has been done, they could turn around and offer us upgrades for Block 3 without India being able to do anything about it. Not that they could have if we had hard cash to pay for Rafales for PAF as well.

Arms manufacturers are shrewd business people and both Pakistan and India have been historically large weapon client states for the French. Its only in the last decade where France has lost access to the Pakistani market for various reasons (India had neglible/no role in this imo).

France is probably realizing they dont want to burn all the bridges with Pakistan as economic downturns are not forever and its hard to earn back a client state as big as Pakistan if you are out of there completely. On top of that, we have other EU member states like UK, Spain, and especially Italy increasing their military cooperation with Pakistan, and can essentially replace France as a supplier for our military.

Then there are other commercial incentives too and the Boeing vs Airbus etc.

 

[HRK]

Now that the Indian deal has been done, they could turn around and offer us upgrades for Block 3 without India being able to do anything about it. Not that they could have if we had hard cash to pay for Rafales for PAF as well.

IMHO It seems very difficult that PAF would like to place their bet with French defence Industry for any major system without alternative from any other country for JF-17 blk-III, so we can assume that any of the French product for JF-17 blk-III would have to compete with offering product of other countries as the same happened in recent past when PAF chose Turkish targeting pod against French pod, but as mention earlier by Bilal Khan (Quwa) TopOwl-F HMDS and Meteor BVR are interesting products

 

[GriffinsRule]

IMHO It seems very difficult that PAF would like to place their bet with French defence Industry for any major system without alternative from any other country for JF-17 blk-III, so we can assume that any of the French product for JF-17 blk-III would have to compete with offering product of other countries as the same happened in recent past when PAF chose Turkish targeting pod against French pod, but as mention earlier by Bilal Khan (Quwa) TopOwl-F HMDS and Meteor BVR are interesting products

Yes, and that is the right approach to take as well. Do business with suppliers on the basis of price, quality and returns for the country.

 

[mingle]

We should produce at least two to three Sqdns of JF-17 blk 3 with European Avionics either French meteor with Italian radar would be great addition along F16s

 

[Basel]

IMHO It seems very difficult that PAF would like to place their bet with French defence Industry for any major system without alternative from any other country for JF-17 blk-III, so we can assume that any of the French product for JF-17 blk-III would have to compete with offering product of other countries as the same happened in recent past when PAF chose Turkish targeting pod against French pod, but as mention earlier by Bilal Khan (Quwa) TopOwl-F HMDS and Meteor BVR are interesting products

For meteor a western AESA will be needed, so its not easy for French to sale it to Pakistan as Grifo-E is not as good as other options are available, only Raven class AESA from west should be accepted with full freedom to integrate any weapon system.

Now that the Indian deal has been done, they could turn around and offer us upgrades for Block 3 without India being able to do anything about it. Not that they could have if we had hard cash to pay for Rafales for PAF as well.

Arms manufacturers are shrewd business people and both Pakistan and India have been historically large weapon client states for the French. Its only in the last decade where France has lost access to the Pakistani market for various reasons (India had neglible/no role in this imo).

France is probably realizing they dont want to burn all the bridges with Pakistan as economic downturns are not forever and its hard to earn back a client state as big as Pakistan if you are out of there completely. On top of that, we have other EU member states like UK, Spain, and especially Italy increasing their military cooperation with Pakistan, and can essentially replace France as a supplier for our military.

Then there are other commercial incentives too and the Boeing vs Airbus etc.

They may want to sell systems in which India is not interested like their AShM, SAM etc.

 

[HRK]

For meteor a western AESA will be needed,

As far as I known Meteor is MIL-STD-1760 compatible BVR missile so it can be made operational with any Radar compatible with MIL-STD-1760 ..... not just Western Radar .... for example we know KLJ-7 V2 PD radar of JF-17 is 1760 compatible and it is because of this reason PAF explicitly mention many times that we can integrate any weapon from open market

So this might be the reason Pakistan is working on indigenous AESA radar with assistance from a friendly country ....having said all of this I would like to mention that I don't think Meteor would be on offer or any significant progress on Defence would be made during PM Imran proposed visit to France

 

[Basel]

As far as I known Meteor is MIL-STD-1760 compatible BVR missile so it can be made operational with any Radar compatible with MIL-STD-1760 ..... not just Western Radar .... for example we know KLJ-7 V2 PD radar of JF-17 is 1760 compatible and it is because of this reason PAF explicitly mention many times that we can integrate any weapon from open market

So this might be the reason Pakistan is working on indigenous AESA radar with assistance from a friendly country ....having said all of this I would like to mention that I don't think Meteor would be on offer or any significant progress on Defence would be made during PM Imran purpose visit to France

Why French will sale it to Pakistan for mating it with Chinese radar?? As China is main competitor of west.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

As far as I known Meteor is MIL-STD-1760 compatible BVR missile so it can be made operational with any Radar compatible with MIL-STD-1760 ..... not just Western Radar .... for example we know KLJ-7 V2 PD radar of JF-17 is 1760 compatible and it is because of this reason PAF explicitly mention many times that we can integrate any weapon from open market

So this might be the reason Pakistan is working on indigenous AESA radar with assistance from a friendly country ....having said all of this I would like to mention that I don't think Meteor would be on offer or any significant progress on Defence would be made during PM Imran purpose visit to France

When is this visit going to take place???

 

[PakFactor]

As far as I known Meteor is MIL-STD-1760 compatible BVR missile so it can be made operational with any Radar compatible with MIL-STD-1760 ..... not just Western Radar .... for example we know KLJ-7 V2 PD radar of JF-17 is 1760 compatible and it is because of this reason PAF explicitly mention many times that we can integrate any weapon from open market

So this might be the reason Pakistan is working on indigenous AESA radar with assistance from a friendly country ....having said all of this I would like to mention that I don't think Meteor would be on offer or any significant progress on Defence would be made during PM Imran purpose visit to France

Question where is this report coming from Pakistan working on AESA I doubt we have the know how or infrastructure and/or fabrication facilities to do something of that sort.

 

[Umar Nazir]

When is this visit going to take place???

12 Nov

 

[HRK]

Question where is this report coming from Pakistan working on AESA I doubt we have the know how or infrastructure and/or fabrication facilities to do something of that sort.

one of the source of this leak is @messiach who is a well respected member of the forum ...... secondly plz try to search former Air Cheif Sohail Aman last 2 or 3 speeches during his last days in which he categorically said that we will build AESA radar in Pakistan though in that speech he did not clarify that it would be a completely indigenous AESA radar

My understanding (which have higher chances of going wrong) is that initially we might import TR modules from friendly country but would try to establish software codes with in-house resources ....

Why French will sale it to Pakistan for mating it with Chinese radar?? As China is main competitor of west.

I never said that it is on offer for PAF, plz once again read the last few lines of my post which you have quoted .....

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Question where is this report coming from Pakistan working on AESA I doubt we have the know how or infrastructure and/or fabrication facilities to do something of that sort.

IMO the main reason in current situation to get your own AESA is to get complete ownership of the radar. This will remove a major fear of west which is that their tech will go to Chinese.

It can be that we paid the money to manufacture a custom AESA according to our specs on which we can integrate both western and Chinese weapons.