Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[aliyusuf]

Kindly tell me how much runway it will need with full load and what RCS will it have??

Frankly I don't know how much runway will be needed and neither did I claim that I did. But If it is important to the discussion I could look it up and see if there is anything out there on the web. As for RCS, nobody knows and that is the point I made on @GriffinsRule 's post i.e. one should not assume RCS just on size.

If Chinese EW is that good then why JFT have Western EW system??

China is not on par with west now in EW system and our enemy have money and access to have western EW system.

You may be right on this one. But does the Indra EW suite being so good mean that the Chinese one has to be bad? Cannot one be less as good but still be good enough to get the job done? Are we certain that it is not an issue of miniaturization and weight also? That would impact JH-7AII less than and be less of an issue than for the Thunder.

 

[MystryMan]

Here I would humbly disagree. I dont consider an aircraft upgraded unless it is integrated to command and control infrastructure along with link 17 and jh7a having radar and avionics different therefore it will take significant time and only after that trainnig will begin. By looking at the past history i think just the contract negotiation and delivery will take atleast a year even if we start on fast track basis today.

Plus I feel today priority is upgradation of air superiroity fighter. F16s cant compete meteor and rafael combo and they are coming this year and will take max 2 years to get fully capable deployment.

If I had money and decision making power I will go for Viper (block 70) or Typhoon to counter Rafael otherwise PAF will be on same status as we were during kargil war i.e. retreat

When the hostilities begin, you won't get any hardware from west/US. So China/Turkey will be our only option.

 

[The Accountant]

When the hostilities begin, you won't get any hardware from west/US. So China/Turkey will be our only option.

Even in that case JH7A dont fill the bill. J10A cant face rafael. So your logic is still flawed

 

[MystryMan]

Even in that case JH7A dont fill the bill. J10A cant face rafael. So your logic is still flawed

so what do u propose? which sanction free fighter jet we can get (due to looming war scenario)?

 

[Basel]

Frankly I don't know how much runway will be needed and neither did I claim that I did. But If it is important to the discussion I could look it up and see if there is anything out there on the web. As for RCS, nobody knows and that is the point I made on @GriffinsRule 's post i.e. one should not assume RCS just on size.


You may be right on this one. But does the Indra EW suite being so good mean that the Chinese one has to be bad? Cannot one be less as good but still be good enough to get the job done? Are we certain that it is not an issue of miniaturization and weight also? That would impact JH-7AII less than and be less of an issue than for the Thunder.

JH-7 is thoroughly tested by both PAF & PN and they prefer to keep Mirages over it till better option is available as J-11 was not available which PN and PAF wanted to replace Mirages with maritime role.

Until and unless some big changes comes in new JH-7 model on par with latest J1x series PN and PAF will not consider it, it will be sitting duck against Indian air defences.

Indra is good and Italy is offering latest stuff and they also ready to provide very advance hard points inbuilt EW system allowing JFT to carry same weapons capacity with very robust EW capabilities which will give it capability to challenge enemy air defences even without any support asset that currently China can not provide.

If PAF had money they would have gone for best EW suit and radar from west for JFT, we might have end up with Raven-05 class AESA with MICA-IR/ASRAAM/IRIS-T with Meteor/MICA type configuration.

 

[The Accountant]

so what do u propose? which sanction free fighter jet we can get (due to looming war scenario)?

For short term upgaradation of F16s, JF17 blk3 and J31 are the only options but if we can delay it to medium term than project azam is supposed to gift a reliable fighter.

There is no need to purchase to fill the numbers only

 

[araz]

Told the supposed aviation genius this some 5 years ago when the repeated rants on the JH-7 began.

Its a 60’s design and thoroughly unsuited to our needs.

I rest my case.
A

For short term upgaradation of F16s, JF17 blk3 and J31 are the only options but if we can delay it to medium term than project azam is supposed to gift a reliable fighter.

There is no need to purchase to fill the numbers only

On your list J31 is no where in operational sight. It could take another 5 years before it is ready. I agree there is a need for a twin engined fighter but finances remain an issue. Integration and setup and in house stores management are expensive parts of aircraft acquisition, not to mention pilot training and learning tactics on the AC. Which is why PAF is still keen on the sweet 16s in any iteration, new or old. The only other possibility is the J series 3 squadrons for naval role, the complexities of acquisition apart.
A

 

[TsAr]

Hi,

What difference does it make to you in the first place.

You have only posted 3.5 posts per month since inception---. So what is your issue---if you may clarify---???

Ignored...

 

[The Accountant]

I rest my case.
A

On your list J31 is no where in operational sight. It could take another 5 years before it is ready. I agree there is a need for a twin engined fighter but finances remain an issue. Integration and setup and in house stores management are expensive parts of aircraft acquisition, not to mention pilot training and learning tactics on the AC. Which is why PAF is still keen on the sweet 16s in any iteration, new or old. The only other possibility is the J series 3 squadrons for naval role, the complexities of acquisition apart.
A

J series are not yet available. Russia has not yet allowed to sell J series otherwise those are decent aircraft.

I agree that J31 is atleast 5 years away but this is the only viable solution against Rafael if we don't get Viper upgraded.

 

[araz]

J series are not yet available. Russia has not yet allowed to sell J series otherwise those are decent aircraft.

I agree that J31 is atleast 5 years away but this is the only viable solution against Rafael if we don't get Viper upgraded.

You have a lot of merit in what you say. With the WS10 qualified ro run on Jseries Russian leverage is lessened to a great degree. I do agree that if J31 becomes available in the next 5 to 7 years it would be an ideal answer to the madness next door. Otherwise JFT with PL15and if the US releases AIM 120D would have to do.
A

 

[SQ8]

Sir, we are also using M3/M5 from the same era. JH-7A is being discussed bcz China is offering to sell it by refurbishing to JH-7AII config (updated Radar,Electronics etc). We can use them for deep/maritime strike (if we can get them at a bargain price) and use M5 for our fleet/coastal defense.

The war is just around the corner and we need to increase the PAF strength. our only option seems to be J-10C or JH-7AII.

Our usage of the Mirages is borne out of economics, adaptability and experience with the platform. None of which apply to the JH-7. Give the PAF $15 billion and see the mirages go away in five years.

You don’t replace an old car you are used to with another “new” old car that you know nothing about unless you are an antiques collector- or an antique yourself.

 

[jupiter2007]

Can J-16 have Chinese engine & Radar and avionics from Turkey and Italy? If yes, we can bypass Russia.

 

[MastanKhan]

Problem at PDF is that non professional people think they know note then professional working in our military, I had discussed JH-7A with PAF and PN people and both said its an obsolete aircraft even with latest upgrade, they have thoroughly tested it.
Kindly tell me how much runway it will need with full load and what RCS will it have??

Hi,

Your discussing it means nothing---. You have no tactical background and understanding of the systems---. And many of those on the other side are not the brightest either---.

There is something called---need---utility---necessity---.

The need & utility supercedes everything else---with necessity and need running close by in parallel.

For a low skimmer over the waves---rcs is the least of the concerns---. And just because the aircraft can be loaded to 9000 KG does not mean that would be the operational requirement for the naval strike missions or precision strike missions---.

The J11 is running around 60 million a piece---. The current JH7A's can be had for maybe between 1 million to 5 million dollars---.

You can have 2 sqdrns of JH7A's for the price of 2 J11's and for the price of 3 1/2 J11's you can get spare engines and other spare parts as well---at max.

A nation that drives and lives by a SUZUKI MEHRAN or a 75cc Honda motorcycle---that nation cannot claim to pick and chose---.

This is the same air force that picked the A5 Fantan---the worst of the worst---. Why---because of its 175 miles flt radius---can't put itself in real harms way---.

Why the air force rejects the JH7A---. The Paf has claimed that it is a defensive air force---with the JH7A it will have to fly farther---see---with the A5's or the mirage 3 / 5 they can stay close by and don't risk themselves---.

 

[mikaal]

Our usage of the Mirages is borne out of economics, adaptability and experience with the platform. None of which apply to the JH-7. Give the PAF $15 billion and see the mirages go away in five years.

You don’t replace an old car you are used to with another “new” old car that you know nothing about unless you are an antiques collector- or an antique yourself.

every one says the same thing here about issues with finances problem is the armed forces should not have spent money on changing uniforms 1st they should have got better equipment ..wars are won by providing the right equipment at the right time ... now crying like a little girl about money issues wont change anything ...and in order to buy something which will make your country defense more stronger the you need loyal people not MR GENERAL the commission agent .....

 

[SQ8]

every one says the same thing here about issues with finances problem is the armed forces should not have spent money on changing uniforms 1st they should have got better equipment ..wars are won by providing the right equipment at the right time ... now crying like a little girl about money issues wont change anything ...and in order to buy something which will make your country defense more stronger the you need loyal people not MR GENERAL the commission agent .....

Yes