Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[fatman17]

Cannot do much more than existing upgrades.

Respected member as stated here and there the Horus have sufficient life left in them, so as PAF is going for may be 30+ jets. It should be expected that at least one squadron of 18-20 after some modifications shall be inducted directly i.e to replace existing Mirages, meanwhile the remaining jets shall be cannibalized to further upgrade the existing Mirages. The expected out come is may be two squadrons of Mirages with upgraded multi role capabilities. The gadgets available in Horus are described to be much latest from Radar to other capabilities. The inducted/upgraded Mirages can have true BVR capability along with defensive capabilities.
I have pointed out many times that if Mirages have to remain here for long time then they should have true multi role capabilities. The other jets escorting them for bombing missions shall not be a viable option in future expected war. They shall have to survive themselves during such missions by countering both air and ground challenges.

 

[Armchair]

OKAY


Write me a nice beefy check I will make it.

Why are all of you hyped for Mirages that cant even FLY--------Spares you all SPARES.

Ah, but we don't want a one man development show - we want a Pakistani "Skunk works" to take up such a project. Like the AVM Latif type team. Using spare parts and keeping it simple, I believe they can build an aircraft that will be a baby between the JF-17, Mirage and F-117. Internal bay for 2 1000 lb laser guided bombs... and there you have it. (or so I would argue).

 

[nomi007]

Two Egyptian C130 Spotted in a single Day
REG: SU-BAR(1285)
REG: SU-BAS(1286)

Any Link with Horus?

 

[mshan44]

 

[Nomad40]

Ah, but we don't want a one man development show - we want a Pakistani "Skunk works" to take up such a project. Like the AVM Latif type team. Using spare parts and keeping it simple, I believe they can build an aircraft that will be a baby between the JF-17, Mirage and F-117. Internal bay for 2 1000 lb laser guided bombs... and there you have it. (or so I would argue).

sthaaap

Two Egyptian C130 Spotted in a single Day
REG: SU-BAR(1285)
REG: SU-BAS(1286)
View attachment 650363

Any Link with Horus?

we have to do the registration of the first c-130.

 

[ziaulislam]

I can't see the PAF acquiring ex-Egyptian Mirages for the purposes of service in the PAF. For one thing, the Horus would have to be modified to use PAF weapons, such as H2/H4 and the Raad, as well as other avionics and equipment to integrate them into our Comms and datalinks, which would be timely and costly. Secondly, the PAF Mirages are meant to be gradually being replaced with the JF-17. The only reason the PAF would be interested in Egyptian Mirages is maybe to acquire a few airframes to canabalise for spare parts to keep existing PAF Mirages flightworthy until they are phased out. That may be particularly the case if there's any delay in the production of Block-3 JF-17. In addition, if the PAF acquired complete Horus airframes in large numbers for the purposes of service, they'd probably be transported by ship rather Hercules, as otherwise, it would take way too long.

mating weapons with new radar will be a headache unless PAF went to France/Eygpt and brought MICA with it..
then these might be used for air to air role..

it would be far cheaper to simply ship these plans rather than fly them.

 

[Scorpiooo]

The previous trips were pretty much confirmed deliveries of Horus and I'm quite sure these two must be for the same purpose but this guy Rana Suhaib who generally has access to bases is saying today's flights weren't for delivering Horus. Just confusing.

How many Horus can accommodated in one C130

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

How many Horus can accommodated in one C130

Maybe four without the wings!

There are a lot of good technology built into these planes(HORUS) . For one RC400 radar is capable of launching MICA missiles .Apparently French were holding up this deal for long time to please India. A few months old news excerpt is below...
"Negotiations to purchase 36 such aircrafts almost reached the final stage", one of the person familiar with the negotiations said. These jets were retired from service by the Egyptian Air Force long ago, so Pakistan will have to refurbish them before pressing the aircraft into service. The Mirage V in question possesses a helmet-mounted display, mission pods, and night strike capability. Sources said Pakistan would upgrade these jets before putting a few of them into operation."

 

[Shah_Deu]

Maybe four without the wings!

There are a lot of good technology built into these planes(HORUS) . For one RC400 radar is capable of launching MICA missiles .Apparently French were holding up this deal for long time to please India. A few months old news excerpt is below...
"Negotiations to purchase 36 such aircrafts almost reached the final stage", one of the person familiar with the negotiations said. These jets were retired from service by the Egyptian Air Force long ago, so Pakistan will have to refurbish them before pressing the aircraft into service. The Mirage V in question possesses a helmet-mounted display, mission pods, and night strike capability. Sources said Pakistan would upgrade these jets before putting a few of them into operation."

Interestingly, RC-400 Radar can reportedly fire Russian missiles as well. Which basically means the radar architecture allows non-Nato products to be mated (sort of open-code).
This would be an excellent additional bonus, considering firing Chinese missiles should be possible with slight coding adjustments. In such a case, a mirage Horus with SD-10 wont surprise me a dime.
We are in short talking about a Mirage 5 with true multi-role capabilities in PA colors!

"The radar can track a 5m2 (55ft2) target in low-altitude/look-down mode at 100km (55nm) range, says the company, and air-to-ground ranging is possible down to a "few metres" accuracy. The RC400 is compatible with European and Russian beyond visual range missiles, says de la Bourdonnaye."

https://www.flightglobal.com/thomson-csf-unveils-rc400-airborne-radar/26925.article

 

[The Maverick]

Why would you wish to keep adding to a fleet of mirage 5 .
The design is like 1970 IE MIG21 era

If you getting used second hand jets get F16 or USED Mirage2000

The Mirage 5 airframes and flight controls are ancient

 

[ziaulislam]

Why would you wish to keep adding to a fleet of mirage 5 .
The design is like 1970 IE MIG21 era

If you getting used second hand jets get F16 or USED Mirage2000

The Mirage 5 airframes and flight controls are ancient

no new squadrons are being added for mirages..they would replace the existing mirages or be as spares for them

 

[Shah_Deu]

Why would you wish to keep adding to a fleet of mirage 5

Ever heard of Cost-Benefit ratio? Its all about leveraging existing infrastructure to add numbers at a throw away price.

The design is like 1970 IE MIG21 era

You know what other designs are from 70s era? Mig-29 (first flight 1977), F-15 (first flight 1972), F-16 (first flight 1974). Infact the C-130 which your AF recently bought, made its first flight in 1950s (1954 to be exact!). So the moral of the story is that an old design could match contemporary needs if reasonably updated with the technology of time.

The Mirage 5 airframes are ancient

The airframes dont get old just with the passage of time, the get old by having flown for a specific number of hours. As long as you have enough life left on a platform, it is irrelevant in which year or in which decade was it built.

 

[The Maverick]

no new squadrons are being added for mirages..they would replace the existing mirages or be as spares for them

How many fighters and sqds of mirage 5 are PAF retaining and until what time period .

This is my guess PAF tonight


1 sqd F16/52 = 18 fighter
3 sqd F16 mlu/A/B = 55 fighters
3 sqds block1 thunders = 50 fighters
4 sqds block 2 Thunders = 70 fighters
6 sqds Mirage5 = 120 fighters
3 sqds F7PG = 55 fighters

THIS MAKES THE MIRAGE 5 the most numerous fighters in your airforce

 

[ziaulislam]

How many fighters and sqds of mirage 5 are PAF retaining and until what time period .

This is my guess PAF tonight


1 sqd F16/52 = 18 fighter
3 sqd F16 mlu/A/B = 55 fighters
3 sqds block1 thunders = 50 fighters
4 sqds block 2 Thunders = 70 fighters
6 sqds Mirage5 = 120 fighters
3 sqds F7PG = 55 fighters

THIS MAKES THE MIRAGE 5 the most numerous fighters in your airforce

no it makes jf17 the most numerous aircarft and mirage on course of replacement in next 5-10 years
by the way mig 21 was the most numerous aircraft in IAF while mirage5 equivalent jauguars are second most common/numerous aircraft in IAF

my guess is PG will go next(till 2024, block III) followed by mirages(till 2030/block IV)..
originally plan was to get 2-3 squadrons of something else(j10s/f16s) but thats not happening so everything is delayed but if f16s come, then this process might be accelerated

the whole point is these mirages will supplement existing mirages and PAF will not add more mirage squardons

 

[The Maverick]

Ever heard of Cost-Benefit ratio? Its all about leveraging existing infrastructure to add numbers at a throw away price.


You know what other designs are from 70s era? Mig-29 (first flight 1977), F-15 (first flight 1972), F-16 (first flight 1974). Infact the C-130 which your AF recently bought, made its first flight in 1950s (1954 to be exact!). So the moral of the story is that an old design could match contemporary needs if reasonably updated with the technology of time.


The airframes dont get old just with the passage of time, the get old by having flown for a specific number of hours. As long as you have enough life left on a platform, it is irrelevant in which year or in which decade was it built.

The MIRAGE 5 first flew in 1955
The build quality is 70 year old technology
metal alloy airframe
All hydraulic gears no digital FBW

Mirage5 was relaced by mirage2000 then rafale

Mirage5 was a Mig21 of france ..........its ancient

no it makes jf17 the most numerous aircarft and mirage on course of replacement in next 5-10 years
by the way mig 21 was the most numerous aircraft in IAF while mirage5 equivalent jauguars are second most common/numerous aircraft in IAF

IT WAS

IAF tonight

272 Su30mki
100 Jaguar
63 MIG29upg
54 Mig21 BIISON
45 Mirage2000
20 Tejas

THE DIFFERENCE between PAF & IAF

IAF is acquiring 12 su30 mki & 21 mig29upg as a interim measure and spares & attrition losses. For cheap money ie about $1.4 billion for the planes alone & $1 billion of new BVRS and WVR missles

PAF is aquiring 36 MIRAGE 5 for same resason ie attrition losses and spares etc.

IAF = new gen fighters 36 rafales & 20 Tejas ( 20 delivered alrready)

PAF = New gen fighters 50 block 3 thunders