Arabic Coffee shop

[ResurgentIran]

What you're seeing here is the true Hazzy, the one I have seen since I joined this forum.

Imo Hazzy is a good guy. Sometimes he has a temper and say awful stuff. And he's a bit mislead on certain things (like ISIS) but thats why I think we have an opportunity to have a dialogue and try to influence Hazzy in the right direction.

@Falcon29

 

[Falcon29]

@ResurgentIran

Ah, yes I do buddy. Because Americans , Iranians, Israelis and Arab nationalists think they can deceive people with their propaganda, doesn't mean everyone believes it. ISIS is brutal but nowhere near as corrupt as everyone else in region. Same with other Islamic movements. You know nothing about magnitude of crimes committed by Arab tyrannical regimes who have suppressed Islam and Islamic rule for decades. I am not glorifying attack, I am stating the obvious. That God is beginning to punish these criminals for all they've been committing. These criminals were cheering during last Israeli war on Gaza and reacted to it by building buffer zone on Gaza. They do not care about anyone's suffering. Neither do Iranians. Who have brutalized Syrian people.

It's time for drastic change, I follow Arab world closely and support for caliphate is very high.

......

PS: I'm grownn man, please dont tell me I need your influence of influence of Arab nationalist oppressors. I can think for myself and I can see right from wrong. I am a Muslim as well and will want to see Islam. Not Islam that is recorded on constitution in order for Arab regimes to claim they support Islam but Islam that is put to practice.

 

[ResurgentIran]

@ResurgentIran

Ah, yes I do buddy. Because Americans , Iranians, Israelis and Arab nationalists think they can deceive people with their propaganda, doesn't mean everyone believes it. ISIS is brutal but nowhere near as corrupt as everyone else in region. Same with other Islamic movements. You know nothing about magnitude of crimes committed by Arab tyrannical regimes who have suppressed Islam and Islamic rule for decades. I am not glorifying attack, I am stating the obvious. That God is beginning to punish these criminals for all they've been committing. These criminals were cheering during last Israeli war on Gaza and reacted to it by building buffer zone on Gaza. They do not care about anyone's suffering. Neither do Iranians. Who have brutalized Syrian people.

It's time for drastic change, I follow Arab world closely and support for caliphate is very high.

......

PS: I'm grownn man, please dont tell me I need your influence of influence of Arab nationalist oppressors. I can think for myself and I can see right from wrong. I am a Muslim as well and will want to see Islam. Not Islam that is recorded on constitution in order for Arab regimes to claim they support Islam but Islam that is put to practice.

Just because regimes are horrible, it doesnt mean ISIS (terrorist criminals) is the answer.
Its becoming increasingly clear that you are drifting towards the ideology of ISIS and this is why you need guidance, young man.

 

[Frogman]

Imo Hazzy is a good guy. Sometimes he has a temper and say awful stuff. And he's a bit mislead on certain things (like ISIS) but thats why I think we have an opportunity to have a dialogue and try to influence Hazzy in the right direction.

@Falcon29

As you can see from the post above, he is not what you believe he is.

 

[ResurgentIran]

As you can see from the post above, he is not what you believe he is.

I know, he is very mislead on this and this is a dangerous thing. Particularly sad since Hazzy is grown up in a good social and secure enviroment in the US, with a good education. But I do still hope that Hazzy sees the light and gets more guidance from his family/relatives and that they can discourage him from the sick twisted ideology of terrorist groups.

To be honest, I think Hazzy is clueless and completely in the dark when it comes to the crimes of ISIS. Thats where we can play a part and bring him the necessary information by exposing their crimes and exposing this pathological and backward Jihadi ideology that is killing thousands of innocent people.

 

[Frogman]

I know, he is very mislead on this and this is a dangerous thing. Particularly sad since Hazzy is grown up in a good social and secure enviroment in the US, with a good education. But I do still hope that Hazzy sees the light and gets more guidance from his family/relatives and that they can discourage him from the sick twisted ideology of terrorist groups.

To be honest, I think Hazzy is clueless and completely in the dark when it comes to the crimes of ISIS. Thats where we can play a part and bring him the necessary information by exposing their crimes and exposing this pathological and backward Jihadi ideology that is killing thousands of innocent people.

There's no point, no matter what you say or show, he will accuse you of lying and spreading nationalist/Kurdish/Jewish propaganda. He also sees the oppression of dictators and tyrants in the ME as justification for senseless murder, and no matter the barbarity of groups opposed to them, they should be destroyed as they have committed similar crimes, he does not realise he is the opposite side of the same coin, the same murderous barbaric coin.

 

[ResurgentIran]

There's no point, no matter what you say or show, he will accuse you of lying and spreading nationalist/Kurdish/Jewish propaganda. He also sees the oppression of dictators and tyrants in the ME as justification for senseless murder, and no matter the barbarity of groups opposed to them, they should be destroyed as they have committed similar crimes, he does not realise he is the opposite side of the same coin, the same murderous barbaric coin.

I know, but I still have faith that Hazzy is not beyond reason and is not made of stone and completely impervious to guidance and influence from saner voices than ISIS.

The problem is that right now the region is stuck between a rock and a much bigger rock. All regimes in ME has not done a good job at adapting the changes in the region and accomodating the wishes of the people, by reforming.
I guess we can call it "democracy". What Hazzy does not realise is that such changes take place in the span of a very long time. Hazzy wants it to be like an "explosive, must have it now" kind of a thing, which only result in anarchy and destruction of states.

When people have lived under such conditions for such a long time with autocratic regimes, they will resist to other alternatives. Even if those alternatives are terrorist filth like ISIS, that represents disintegration of the nation state structures. Thats because other alternatives have not been nearly strong enough, which is extremely unfortunate. And those groups who did not share the ideology/narrative of ISIS either did not politically form to cohesive and strong actors, or they were hijacked by terrorists.
Thats why the regimes need to reform themselves.

However I believe the bigger and more acute issue at this moment is crushing the Jihadi terrorists, as to not allow the total disintegration of borders and nation states (like what happened in post-Ghaddafi Libya).
This is what Hazzy must be made to understand. ISIS is no alternative, they are just the infinitely more worse and sinister alternative to the current regimes in place. Right now he is too blinded by his idealism (which is seriously misplaced) to understand this.

@Falcon29

 

[Frogman]

I know, but I still have faith that Hazzy is not beyond reason and is not made of stone and completely impervious to guidance and influence from saner voices than ISIS.

The problem is that right now the region is stuck between a rock and a much bigger rock. All regimes in ME has not done a good job at adapting the changes in the region and accomodating the wishes of the people, by reforming.
I guess we can call it "democracy".
When people have lived under such conditions for such a long time with autocratic regimes, they will resist to other alternatives. Even if those alternatives are terrorist filth like ISIS, that represents disintegration of the nation state structures. Thats because other alternatives have not been nearly strong enough, which is extremely unfortunate. And those groups who did not share the ideology/narrative of ISIS either did not politically form to cohesive and strong actors, or they were hijacked by terrorists.
Thats why the regimes need to reform themselves.

However I believe the bigger and more acute issue at this moment is crushing the Jihadi terrorists, as to not allow the total disintegration of borders and nation states (like what happened in post-Ghaddafi Libya).
This is what Hazzy must be made to understand. ISIS is no alternative, they are just the infinitely more worse and sinister alternative to the current regimes in place. Right now he is too blinded by his idealism (which is seriously misplaced) to understand this.

Hazzy is not seeking an alternative, he is after a final solution. A solution in which minorities don't exist nor do differing views or interests, other than those he supports. He has no regard for anyone who opposes this.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Hazzy is not seeking an alternative, he is after a final solution. A solution in which minorities don't exist nor do differing views or interests, other than those he supports. He has no regard for anyone who opposes this.

I agree with you, but that is where we must come in and influence him even if it seems impossible, because Hazzy is kinda stubborn sometimes.

 

[Frogman]

I agree with you, but that is where we must come in and influence him even if it seems impossible, because Hazzy is kinda stubborn sometimes.

You can try, but I will continue annoying him, it's how you get his real views out.

 

[al-Hasani]

@Falcon29

We are roughly in the same age group. Both living in the West (for many years) yet we both deeply care about the Arab world and are familiar with the affairs back home. At least I do and I like to believe that you do as well at the end of the day and based on our many interactions.

I have almost always held your back even when I was very much alone in doing so. Because I know that the issues that are discussed are issues that can invoke strong feelings and because of the huge amount if ignorants and trolls on PDF. I speak from experience. My "battles" so to speak have mostly been with hateful outright anti-Arabs and anti-Muslims than fellow Arabs outside of disagreements on Syria which were not really hateful.

Recently though (last 1-2 days) it seems to me that you have went berserk. There must be something outside of the forum because I can't explain it otherwise as nothing major has happened in the Arab world in the meantime.

I simply cannot recognize you. We both want those regimes to be removed but what you have been writing recently is very counterproductive.

I think, once you calm down, that you should write the changes that you want to see in a constructive manner and then we can take the discussion from there.

You also really need to accept that not every Arab is dreaming about MB rule everywhere. Just like not every Arab is a "regime supporter". You know my views of practically all movements in the Arab and Muslim world and Muslim/Arab leaders as well so you cannot accuse me of being pro this and that. You know this.

Countries as a whole and people as a whole are another discussion and I will always take the back of fellow Arabs and Arab countries over foreigners.

If we cannot discuss the issues that we face as a people in a constructive manner (no initiating more violence for the sake of it is not going to solve anything - you as a Palestinian should know this) then we might as well give up and mind our own business. You as a Palestinian, Mahmoud as an Egyptian and Umar as an Algerian and Abdul-Rahman as an Saudi Arabian.

Anyway let me ask you a question right now. Do you really see no other solution than MB? If not them then what? I mean you must have some alternatives that you can accept?

I for instance could easily accept Islamist rule as long as the country that had such a system advanced on all fronts, people had a say and basically the things that people living in regimes today long for were available. Do you understand me on this front?

We also both agree that the Arab world on its own could be a superpower potentially and that we should not become either Western or Eastern "puppets" yet work together with everyone on equal terms like other globalized players.

You tell me where I am wrong here?!

 

[Falcon29]

@al-Hasani

Your post is very long. Yes I am going bezerk. I used to secular asswipe. Then I become MB. Now I think I'm becoming Salafi.

On serious note, why is it always about MB? MB has solutions to Arab world because they simply do. For most part. I am speaking of large Arab nations. MB can play some roles while other elements in Arab world can play some roles. You ask yourself , what is choice for Arab people today? It used to be same Arab regime or MB. Today no longer case. It is Arab regime or Salafi Al Qaeda. Thanks to Arab regime war against moderate islamists. So we should STOP making it about MB. And I much rather have Salafis over these garbage Arabs we have. I am no longer going to be goodwilled to any Arab country anymore.

And to answer your question no not only them. There were Arab leaders in past who had good qualities. Such as Saddam. Other than that most of them were not capable of anything. Saddam wasn't Islamist, so you can't say I'm only Islamist supporter. However he had qualities which people liked and some that they didn't like.

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani

Your post is very long. Yes I am going bezerk. I used to secular asswipe. Then I become MB. Now I think I'm becoming Salafi.

On serious note, why is it always about MB? MB has solutions to Arab world because they simply do. For most part. I am speaking of large Arab nations. MB can play some roles while other elements in Arab world can play some roles. You ask yourself , what is choice for Arab people today? It used to be same Arab regime or MB. Today no longer case. It is Arab regime or Salafi Al Qaeda. Thanks to Arab regime war against moderate islamists. So we should STOP making it about MB. And I much rather have Salafis over these garbage Arabs we have. I am no longer going to be goodwilled to any Arab country anymore.

And to answer your question no not only them. There were Arab leaders in past who had good qualities. Such as Saddam. Other than that most of them were not capable of anything. Saddam wasn't Islamist, so you can't say I'm only Islamist supporter. However he had qualities which people liked and some that they didn't like.

I am not anti-MB nor pro-MB. I just think that the main problem of our Arab world and Arabs as a people are that they do not accept pluralism. There are only 4-5 main narratives as well despite there being 450 million of us and 450 million different opinions when it comes down to it. Either you are an nationalist (I don't like this word - prefer patriotism, brotherhood, solidarity), pro-regime, anti-regime, Islamist or secularist.

What about Palestine?

I am not going to write another long post (lol) as I just wrote a long post in that other thread. You should check it out. It describes my feelings about all this the best way.

 

[-SINAN-]

what was your favorite character ?

Ken.

 

[al-Hasani]

@1000

Why are you wasting your time with that Farsi gypsy troll (or Baluch or whatever he is) and his stateless Kurdi troll friend? Chemical Ali lived for a reason, you know?

The stateless parasites will be driven away from stolen areas of Northern Iraq. No about about it.

Whether by Sunnis, Shias or Christians.