Analysis : What used to attack saudi oil facilities?

[Sina-1]

Really?! Go back and read posts #52 and #55 (page 4) and see how much "class" there was on display ...

I didn’t say those replies were class act, now did I

 

[AmirPatriot]

Patriot defense system is offered with a single radar system to a potential customer (standard package), but it can be made to take cues from multiple radar systems if necessary. YOU can equip a Patriot defense system with multiple MPQ-53 radar systems or multiple MPQ-65 radar systems. In fact, Patriot defense systems can be made to take cues from different types of radar systems if necessary.

In the end the most common layout is 1 MPQ-53/65 per battery, which would be fine if the radar rotated on a turntable, then it would have 360° coverage. But it doesn't and I'll explain that further down. But this lack of a turntable means that even if there is relatively early warning from other radars, the Patriot radar vehicle would have to be physically turned around to face the threat, which is just out of the question in a combat scenario. After all, Early Warning radars can only provide, well, warning. The MPQ-53/65 is needed to actually engage the targets.

Establishing a credible defense, is a matter of professional understanding of these matters. This understanding cannot be bought with money from any company.

All I would say is that this is a wakeup call for KSA. Their incompetence and lack of strategic depth is becoming apparent to all.

I don't think they could have done much given the assets at their disposal. For some strange reason, the Saudis have a very small number of Patriot systems now compared to before the Yemeni war in 2014. Judging by satellite pictures they only operated 5 at the time of the Abqaiq attack compared to 9 back in 2014, with a PAC-3 popping up now and then and a small US contingent near Riyadh. Low system concentration is another problem when the system only has a 120° cone of view.

I just reminded them that American hardware delivers "in capable hands."

"In capable hands" being the key term.

With a system with 360° coverage, you don't need to fuss about what direction your system is pointing.

Unless the Saudis bought a huge number of systems (you need 3 systems to cover a 360° area!), there are limited circumstances in which Patriot would be effective for even capable actors. Patriot was designed in the Cold War with WW3 in mind. It was deployed in large numbers along the East German border (along with many more Hawk systems) allowing each system to cover for the other. Even then, it was designed with the assumption of NATO Air Superiority, probably why it has been allowed some of these weaknesses. In this case those weaknesses resulted in failure.

Each of these white (inactive) and red (active) triangles are Patriot sites... many of them dating back to the Cold War. Completely lining the border.

 

[mike2000 is back]

The oil refinery in question is/was not shielded by any variant of Patriot defense system, period. I was wrong about the 'near' part though, but these systems were not active at the time of attack which is also an important consideration (reportedly out of magazine). Saudi negligence is the primary issue here.

Give a donkey an AK47 and it won't make any difference.

To be fair to the Saudis, I think they never imagined that Iran will be bod enough to attack them in their own mainland, and their largest oil refinery at that. That's not an excuse for then though. Since a country should always be ready for any eventuality. Especially in a conflict zone like the middle East where KSA and Iran are engaged in a proxy war of supremacy in the region. So the Saudis should have been prepared at all times. I agree that it was incompetent on their part .

Don't worry bro ... we did this to prevent war ... but people have no wisdom to understand

Actually I don't think Iran even needed to do this to prevent war, since KSA never had any intention of attacking iran's mainland this brazenly. Since they know this can escalate things over the extent to which they will like to and as I said in another threat KSA being a wealthy prosperous country has more to lose in a situation of war than Iran. I suppose leaders in Tehran are also aware of this. Coupled with the fact that the US is not keen to get involved in another war after the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Had Iraq war never happened then I think the US would have long reacted to attacks like this to be honest. However things are different today.

 

[war&peace]

These systems used in this attack were as much Russia as the american tomohawk is. The were fully Iranian tech.

These were some simpler Iranian tech given to these proxies in this attack. This was also to send a message to the saudis. "If our proxies with these relatively simpler Iranian tech can do this to you, just imagine what Iran itself will do".

aa bail mujhay maar... @PakSword

 

[Aramagedon]

Had Iraq war never happened then I think the US would have long reacted to attacks like this to be honest. However things are different today.

Your daddy USA (your offspring) is 150 years old while Iran is thousands years old.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/ancient-iranian-civilizations-since-12000-years-ago.393162

 

[PakSword]

aa bail mujhay maar... @PakSword

Told you that Iran is a menace.. Yesterday an Iranian was arrested form Baluchistan and large cache of arms was recovered from an underground bunker. For what purpose it was there?

Our policies of staying neutral between KSA and Iran will only harm us in the long run. We will definitely lose a friend.

 

[war&peace]

More likely than not it was done by Iran itself. Houthis are just a diversion to shed blame from Iran but still keeping the ace of spade in Iran's hands, the USA knows it was Iran and Iran knows it that the USA knows.

Well, a lot of scenarios are possible. Iran can also send her experts to Yemen along with the weapons and fire from there on KSA.

 

[RoadRunner401]

And where is the evidence for this claim? or are you pulling claims out of your behind?

My bad, I did not know Iranians have the satellites and aircraft that can guide these weapons to their destination with 1000% accuracy

Next time, don't open your gob if you're clueless.

When it comes to Iranian advancements in secret satellites and other high tech electronics required for such a precise hit, I admit the whole world expect you are clueless, kudos to you guys, so which aircraft would you have used to guide these babies with such accuracy.. I mean even the American missile detection failed to detect wow amazing.

This attack came from Iranian proxies in Iraq. Only someone devoid of any logic would believe this was done by Israel.

Clearly Iranian proxies according to you have better tech then state of Israel and here I am talking from my backside.

ran has proven its missile accuracy greatly in the past couple of years. Most recently by hitting a kurdish meeting room in a pinpoint manner.

7 missiles were fired and one hit. 7 to 1..

 

[yavar]

Iran Former IRGC chief and Secretary of the Expediency Council of Major General Mohsen Rezaei Analysis of Yemen Ansarullah, attack on Saudi Aramco oil-facility Abqaiq

 

[Parsipride]

UK, France, Germany Say It's "Clear" Iran Attacked Saudis; Johnson Backs New 'Trump Deal'


Though by now Washington appears no closer to military strikes on Iran than it was before the Sept. 14 Saudi Aramco attack, a joint statement by Britain, France, and Germany has brought the kind of international allied consensus the US administration is looking for.

The three European countries announced it was "clear" Iran was responsible for the twin aerial strikes on the facilities, however, stopped short of calling for any military retaliation, instead urged Iran to reengage negotiations on its nuclear and missile programs. The statement does warn of "risk of a major conflict" and underscores making "collective efforts towards regional stability and security" which includes bringing the Yemen war to an end.

Johnson, Merkel and Macron held a trilateral meeting at the UN Headquarters. Image source: EPA via Al Jazeera
“The time has come for Iran to accept a long term negotiation framework for its nuclear program, as well as regional security issues, which include its missile programs,” the three governments said. Iran has in the past said its missile programs complied with international norms and remains a non-starter in any negotiations with the US or its allies.

the statement:

We condemn in the strongest terms the attacks on oil facilities on Saudi territory on September 14th, 2019 in Abqaiq and Khurais, and reaffirm in this context our full solidarity with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and its population.

It is clear to us that Iran bears responsibility for this attack. There is no other plausible explanation. We support ongoing investigations to establish further details.

Citing no evidence, the statement surprisingly appeals to there supposedly being "no other plausible explanation" — despite many possibilities being documented by analysts and international publications.

The joint statement was issued upon French President Emmanuel Macron, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and German Chancellor Angela Merkel meeting during the annual United Nations assembly of world leaders this week, where they discussed the Iran nuclear deal and ratcheting tensions in a trilateral dialogue.

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The UK's Johnson has urged Iran to back a new "Trump deal" after Washington backed out of the 2015 nuclear deal in May 2018. “If it was a bad deal — and I’m willing to accept that, it had many, many defects — then let’s do a better deal,” the prime minister told NBC News.

This marks a sharp change in Britain's rhetoric on the JCPOA, which up until Johnson's interview had been to follow the rest of Europe in seeking to uphold its terms.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It is clear to us that Iran bears responsibility for this attack. There is no other plausible explanation. We support ongoing investigations to establish further details.

Citing no evidence, the statement surprisingly appeals to there supposedly being "no other plausible explanation" — despite many possibilities being documented by analysts and international publications.

say it all

 

[Sina-1]

I am now more than ever convinced that west wants Iran to be a weak and broken slave!
I used to think that dialogue is the way to go, however it is obvious that west is only interested in a one way communication where they dictate the terms. It’s mind numbing that they want limit Iranian military hardware. Are you insane? How would it be conceived if Iran demanded their military inventory to be limited and decreased? The nerve these colonialists have is mind boggling! Someone should remind them that the 20th century is no more!

 

[RoadRunner401]

Right, because Iran could not use GLONASS etc and it has to use its own satellites





These are ballistic missiles, what does an aircraft have to do with anything? are you high?



That's because you live in a fantasy world where American systems are infallible. The fact is, this attack by Iran showed just how limited some their systems are. In this case, their PAC-3

@AmirPatriot described it very nicely in his blog.





No, it's just a matter of having enough IQ to know that Israel somehow getting it's hand on dozens of Iranian made hardware and launching it from 1000's of km away to do this attack is too much of a stretch compared to simply going by the obvious fact that there is ample evidence these attack came form Iran/Iraq area. If you truly lack the cognitive ability to realise this, then this is your problem.




Like I said, figures that you're pulling from your behind.
I told you to watch the video from the actual expert. At least you'll learn something other than making yourself look like an utter ignoramus.

To continue your attempt to insult and name calling shows you find my argument valid and are not capable of carrying on a civilized conversation..

You are claiming this terrorist and yes, it will be considered a terrorist act on the assets of a sovereign nation was carried out by Iran?

 

[mohsen]

Not for nothing has Iran been called a “drone superpower”.
The drone attacks in Saudi Arabia have changed the nature of global warfare | The Independent

the US forces in the Gulf did not know what was happening until it was all over.

Excuses advanced for this failure include the drones flying too low to be detected and unfairly coming from a direction different from the one that might have been expected. Such explanations sound pathetic when set against the proud boasts of the arms manufacturers and military commanders about the effectiveness of their weapons systems.

If the US and Saudi Arabia are particularly hesitant to retaliate against Iran it is because they know now, contrary to what they might have believed a year ago, that a counter-attack will not be a cost-free exercise. What happened before can happen again: not for nothing has Iran been called a “drone superpower”. Oil production facilities and the desalination plants providing much of the fresh water in Saudi Arabia (plus all U.S bases and all U.S floating cans) are conveniently concentrated targets for drones and small missiles.
(He forgot to mention U.S bases and floating cans)

 

[raptor22]

Not for nothing has Iran been called a “drone superpower”.
The drone attacks in Saudi Arabia have changed the nature of global warfare | The Independent

the US forces in the Gulf did not know what was happening until it was all over.

Excuses advanced for this failure include the drones flying too low to be detected and unfairly coming from a direction different from the one that might have been expected. Such explanations sound pathetic when set against the proud boasts of the arms manufacturers and military commanders about the effectiveness of their weapons systems.

If the US and Saudi Arabia are particularly hesitant to retaliate against Iran it is because they know now, contrary to what they might have believed a year ago, that a counter-attack will not be a cost-free exercise. What happened before can happen again: not for nothing has Iran been called a “drone superpower”. Oil production facilities and the desalination plants providing much of the fresh water in Saudi Arabia (plus all U.S bases and all U.S floating cans) are conveniently concentrated targets for drones and small missiles.
(He forgot to mention U.S bases and floating cans)

من اخر نفهمیدم کی زد ... اگر ایران زده چرا؟