Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/x/status/968169143651504130

https://twitter.com/x/status/968176178531131392

Incompetent and corrupt fucks. Look at that time table. The first Altays should already have been in service. We all now they are delaying it to give it to BMC. Who in turn will give it to Rheinmetall. "Turkish Tank" my ***. This whole project has become a farce and disgrace for all the Turkish engineers who worked for years on it. Embarassing the country by trying to give the pride of the Turkish military to the country that whines when we do exercises with Tanks we bought from them in the 80s. Good job, you have stained Altays name for ever. Now when we use those tanks we can hear from the German media "TURKEY GENOCIDING EVERYONE WITH RHEINMETALL BUILT TANKS MUH WHY ARE WE ALLOWING THIS MUH".

 

[-------]

@LegionnairE

Here a running gag.

Second BAFO Period in Altay


It was learned that a second "best and Final offer" (Best And Final Offer / BAFO) requested from the competitors for the serial production of ALTAY Main Battle Tank. According to the information obtained by C4Defence, the Undersecretariat of Defence Industries (SSM) has sent a new call to the companies participate in the tender. Accordingly, the companies presented BAFO on 8 February 2018 to SSM will submit their offers again on 5 March 2018. This time SSM will make separate price negotiations with companies determined to be mandatory subcontractors in the Request for Proposal (RFI). In this framework, the price and price distribution tree will be included in the offers of the competitors.
On the other hand, the Undersecretary for Defence Industries has not yet responded to the written question on the subject by the time the news is published.
OTOKAR, FNSS and BMC compete in the tender





Short Url: http://c4news.me/GvIU7

So they want all three companies to include the price sub-suppliers have offered to each company. Sounds like an attempt to combat corruption within the supply chain of Altay.

 

[revojam]

So they want all three companies to include the price sub-suppliers have offered to each company. Sounds like an attempt to combat corruption within the supply chain of Altay.

Or wait for BMC-Rheinmetal factory to get finished first so when tender eventually given to BMC people won't be able point the fact BMC dont even have necessary facilities(nor enginners) to mass produce Altay.Two birds with one stone really and who gives a shit about adding another year to already delayed Altay project anyway.

 

[Malpsoy]

The SPD has begun to vote over 463 members of the coalition protocol last week, and the end of the vote will be announced on 4 March.

Could the German government be expected to be established

 

[-------]

Or wait for BMC-Rheinmetal factory to get finished first so when tender eventually given to BMC people won't be able point the fact BMC dont even have necessary facilities(nor enginners) to mass produce Altay.Two birds with one stone really and who gives a shit about adding another year to already delayed Altay project anyway.

All three companies are in the same boat, none of them have the capacity to produce 50 tanks per year. Also, no, they aren't adding another year. Few months tops till they decide.

 

[LegionnairE]

@LegionnairE

Here a running gag.

Second BAFO Period in Altay


It was learned that a second "best and Final offer" (Best And Final Offer / BAFO) requested from the competitors for the serial production of ALTAY Main Battle Tank. According to the information obtained by C4Defence, the Undersecretariat of Defence Industries (SSM) has sent a new call to the companies participate in the tender. Accordingly, the companies presented BAFO on 8 February 2018 to SSM will submit their offers again on 5 March 2018. This time SSM will make separate price negotiations with companies determined to be mandatory subcontractors in the Request for Proposal (RFI). In this framework, the price and price distribution tree will be included in the offers of the competitors.
On the other hand, the Undersecretary for Defence Industries has not yet responded to the written question on the subject by the time the news is published.
OTOKAR, FNSS and BMC compete in the tender





Short Url: http://c4news.me/GvIU7

best and final offer is best and final offer emphasis on the "final"
Obviously they are trying their hardest to give the project to BMC

 

[Yellow-place]

This not only a Mbt tender. This is the tender of who will be Turkey's Rheinmetal...

 

[Adıvar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/968169143651504130

https://twitter.com/x/status/968176178531131392

Incompetent and corrupt fucks. Look at that time table. The first Altays should already have been in service. We all now they are delaying it to give it to BMC. Who in turn will give it to Rheinmetall. "Turkish Tank" my ***. This whole project has become a farce and disgrace for all the Turkish engineers who worked for years on it. Embarassing the country by trying to give the pride of the Turkish military to the country that whines when we do exercises with Tanks we bought from them in the 80s. Good job, you have stained Altays name for ever. Now when we use those tanks we can hear from the German media "TURKEY GENOCIDING EVERYONE WITH RHEINMETALL BUILT TANKS MUH WHY ARE WE ALLOWING THIS MUH".

OTOKAR has already manufactured running samples and passed all tests on the field without problem so proved technical capability. That is Otokar is ready with its equipment, production line etc. most importantly with the "know-how" for mass production.

BMC,on the other hand, having no experience with Altay, will have to be dependent on the German firm Rheinmetal if given tender by AKP.

Question: What could be possible reason to why they dont want Otokar to mass-produce Altay, but give it to a foreign firm?

The only reasonable answer could be that the price offer Otokar has given is possibly higher than BMC&Rheinmetal partnership. (We dont know about this.)

They, if so "nationalistic and indigenous" as they claim to be, should still prefer Otokar because it is a company with 100% Turkish capital. That means Our money will stay at home, instead of Bismarc's pocket in Germany.

They care about it? I dont think so. They only care the profit for their own. We are surrounded by corruption everywhere .

Bu arada ortada hala tankı çalıştaracak bir motor olmadığını da unutmayalım. Gurur kaynağımız olacak bir projeyi utanç kaynağı yaptılar.

Not: BMC bir Türk-Qatar ortaklığıdır.

 

[Borg]

OTOKAR has already manufactured running samples and passed all tests on the field without problem so proved technical capability. That is Otokar is ready with its equipment, production line etc. for mass production.

BMC,on the other hand, having no experience with Altay, will have to be dependent on the German firm Rheinmetal if given tender by AKP.

Question: What could be possible reason to why they dont want Otokar to mass-produce Altay, but give it to a foreign firm?

The only reasonable answer could be that the price offer Otokar has given is possibly higher than BMC&Rheinmetal partnership. (We dont know about this.)

They, if so "nationalistic and indigenous" as they claim to be, should still prefer Otokar because it is a company with 100% Turkish capital. That means Our money will stay at home, instead of Bismarc's pocket in Germany.

They care about it? I dont think so. They only care the profit for their own.

Bu arada ortada hala tankı çalıştaracak bir motor olmadığını da unutmayalım. Gurur kaynağımız olacak bir projeyi utanç kaynağı yaptılar.

It is strange that many of you here are writing about "pockets" or "friends pockets" of some politicians especially of Erdogan or his party but none of you never explained how is it possible that Otokar owner, even so patriotic as you write, has set that high price tag that even a potential german producer can make it cheeper? Looks like strange patriotism to me! How comes that Otokar's in Turkey developed and produced tank is way more expecive than any other tank in the world and that's still patriotic for you and nobody accuses Otokar for profit taking into own pocket? Hm

 

[Saithan]

But this is very taxing, if necessary I hope the FNSS Kaplan could be used by TSK. Unless of course heavy armoured tank is needed.

 

[LegionnairE]

But this is very taxing, if necessary I hope the FNSS Kaplan could be used by TSK. Unless of course heavy armoured tank is needed.

Kaplan is as much a tank as this is:

Suffice to say, we're buying tanks for armor protection, not for firepower, especially these days when 120mm guns are completely overkill against the terrorists.

We need to stop wasting time with bureaucracy and get to the production.
We should've produced the first batch by now.

 

[Adıvar]

Otokar owner, even so patriotic as you write, has set that high price tag that even a potential german producer can make it cheeper? How comes that Otokar's in Turkey developed and produced tank is way more expecive than any other tank in the world and that's still patriotic for you and nobody accuses Otokar for profit taking into own pocket? Hm

I did not say Otokar's tank was expensive. I said the price could be possible reason to why they insisted on giving project to some other company. But we do NOT know anyhing about price.

Domestic production is always cheaper than a foreign firm. No matter how expensive it is in terms of money.

Because, the money stays in our national economy.

Otokar is 100% Turkish.
BMC is a Turkish-Qatar partnership and its factory Rhainmetal is German.

Understand?

 

[Abdul_Jalil]

Alhamdulillah. Very good, Thank you our Turkish brothers. I hope inshallah we will collect this in future.

 

[Saithan]

I did not say Otokar's tank was expensive. I said the price could be possible reason to why they insisted on giving project to some other company. But we do NOT know anyhing about price.

Domestic production is always cheaper than a foreign firm. No matter how expensive it is in terms of money.

Because, the money stays in our national economy.

Otokar is 100% Turkish.
BMC is a Turkish-Qatar partnership and its factory Rhainmetal is German.

Understand?

I think perhaps Borg is thinking of the sales price. And that's where economy of scales comes into picture. The Germans can sell their tanks cheaper because of the scales, and the production already exists, so the least they have to worry about is covering the production cost.

But Otokar, BMC, FNSS has to worry about covering the cost of R&D, establishing production and the cost of employment.

If SSM said, winner gets to produce 1000 Altay, the price Otokar, FNSS, BMC would ask for would be much lower. As it is they have to worry about covering the cost of establishing everything.

If SSM said, the winner will be the sole producer of the Altay MBT, then it would be more attractive, because then no one else in Turkey would be producing the MBT and the winner would have monopoly, in that case lowering the price insanely wouldn't be a pipedream.

So it's because RTE, AKP hopping from one streetwalker to another that causes our own firms to be catious.

 

[Killuminati]

Is mass production really a necessity?? How many tanks does Turkey want to build in the end? They pretend there are no tanks in stock and that producing 100 tanks a year is really needed.

Just make a fking start man rest will come.