about Muslim Brahmins of Pakistan and Kashmir

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I have heard from the mouths of Punjabis that even today settlers from east Punjab are called "Panahi" (panah guzeen) .


They are usually "kasabgars" among us (known as "kammi" in Punjab)

Having lived in Panjab.. I've never heard that term being used.

 

[Nexus]

I have heard from the mouths of Punjabis that even today settlers from east Punjab are called "Panahi" (panah guzeen) .


They are usually "kasabgars" among us (known as "kammi" in Punjab)

It's like discriminating your own brothers. Large numbers of Sindhi migrated to Kutch and Kathiyavad in 47. But today they are accepted as natives here.

They us gujarati as well as and Sindhi within their communities.

Why pashtuns suddenly started giving their daughters to others @mian ? As far as I know pashtuns don't evwn give their daughters to enemy tribe. Is this a desi fever ?

 

[Mian Babban]

Why pashtuns suddenly started giving their daughters to others @mian ? As far as I know pashtuns don't evwn give their daughters to enemy tribe. Is this a desi fever ?

Desi fever?

A Pashtun prefer to marry with a Pashtana and vice versa, for obvious reasons.

 

[jaydee]

"[Serious]"

I saw this image on reddit few hours ago and do it have sparked number of questions in my mind.

These results the people Indian army have killed in Kashmir. And i hve noticed that majority of them are actually Kashmiri Pundits who converted to Islam.

1) why these brahmins converts to Islam ? And when ?

2) how Muslims view these converted brahmins? Do they get respect in Pakistani or Kashmiri society?

3) how muslims view these muslims who have "pundit" surname specifically?

4) do they intermarry with other muslims ? Do they have their own biradaris?

5) how Muslims brahmins view their heritage? And sanskrit.

6) how Pashtuns,Baloch view these brahmins? And Rajputs?

We dont have muslim brahmins in north india beside kashmir and Pakistani punjab so I posted this in Pakistani history section.

@Mian Babban and @DESERT FIGHTER being a pashtun and Baloch your answers are much needed and highly valuable/ credible for us.

@waz keep this thread clean please.

Brahmins ??

It has been almost 750 years since Shahi Hamdan(ra) converted brahmins to Islam and you seem stuck in your time machine capsule.750 years have passed since then buddy and you still call us Brahmins.Same logic can be used to call you Buddhists coz buddhism preceded Hinduism in this sub continent.

 

[Kambojaric]

I have heard from the mouths of Punjabis that even today settlers from east Punjab are called "Panahi" (panah guzeen) .

Never heard that term before. My maternal side came from Amritsar in 47. They are considered Punjabi like any native Lahori or Sialkoti.

 

[cyborga8a]

Its all in the brainwashing brother, arabs consider themselves as the upper class and non-Arabs are 2nd class citizens.

 

[Fledgingwings]

In Islam there is no caste system.

 

[Mian Babban]

Never heard that term before. My maternal side came from Amritsar in 47. They are considered Punjabi like any native Lahori or Sialkoti.

Not in big cities. I am talking about rural areas.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I have heard from the mouths of Punjabis that even today settlers from east Punjab are called "Panahi" (panah guzeen) .

That simply isn't true. As per 1951 census, settlers from East Punjab constituted 25.6 % of total population of Pakistani Punjab. i.e. every fourth person in Punjab was a "settler from East Punjab". Punjabi immigrants got easily assimilated in the host society as there were no cultural or lingual differences and many of them already shared beraderi linkages with the local population and it was not difficult for them to find bonds with them. As a result of frequent inter-marriages the settlers from East Punjab got fully absorbed into the local population and lost their separate identity just after one generation and today it's virtually impossible to distinguish them apart.


The only immigrants in Punjab who still hold a 'separate identity' are the immigrants from the State of Jammu and Kashmir. In the districts of Pakistani Punjab bordering Indian occupied Kashmir (the Dogri-Kangri speaking areas of Punjab primarily), they are called "Riyasati" (People of the state) as opposed to "Baashinda/Muqami" (the locals). And that is because those immigrants are registered as such and they are "dual" nationals as they are eligible to vote/participate in the Pakistani as well as AJK elections. And special quotas for them are reserved in jobs and educational institutions all across Pakistan. However, they too have assimilated in socio-cultural and economic life of Punjab in such a way that you can't tell them apart.

 

[salarsikander]

Its all in the brainwashing brother, arabs consider themselves as the upper class and non-Arabs are 2nd class citizens.

That is racism not in religions sense. The relation of Islam doesn't have cast system

 

[Kabira]

That simply isn't true. As per 1951 census, settlers from East Punjab constituted 25.6 % of total population of Pakistani Punjab. i.e. every fourth person in Punjab was a "settler from East Punjab". Punjabi immigrants got easily assimilated in the host society as there were no cultural or lingual differences and many of them already shared beraderi linkages with the local population and it was not difficult for them to find bonds with them. As a result of frequent inter-marriages the settlers from East Punjab got fully absorbed into the local population and lost their separate identity just after one generation and today it's virtually impossible to distinguish them apart.


The only immigrants in Punjab who still hold a 'separate identity' are the immigrants from the State of Jammu and Kashmir. In the districts of Pakistani Punjab bordering Indian occupied Kashmir (the Dogri-Kangri speaking areas of Punjab primarily), they are called "Riyasati" (People of the state) as opposed to "Baashinda/Muqami" (the locals). And that is because those immigrants are registered as such and they are "dual" nationals as they are eligible to vote/participate in the Pakistani as well as AJK elections. And special quotas for them are reserved in jobs and educational institutions all across Pakistan. However, they too have assimilated in socio-cultural and economic life of Punjab in such a way that you can't tell them apart.

You got 25.6% from here? Do you know how many of them were urdu speakers?
http://www.irispunjab.gov.pk/StatisticalReport/Population Census/1951/Census of Pakistan 1951 Population According to Economic Status.pdf

I don't think 25% were all east punjabis. Among them were people from current day Haryana who speak haryanvi and also Delhi which used to be part of British punjab. And UP and Bihar as well. Majority were east punjabis though. That Pak punjabi movie actor Saud is actually Bihari origin.

 

[Deidara]

I have heard from the mouths of Punjabis that even today settlers from east Punjab are called "Panahi" (panah guzeen) .

Dude what are you talking about. It was all about land reallocation in Punjab. The Sikhs left their land in Pakistani Punjab and got land in Indian Punjab. The muslims left their land in Indian punjab and were reallocated land in Pakistani punjab. When sikhs and muslims switched sides they found whole villages deserted with no one to claim the fields in their new home. Those abandoned villages and fields were allocated to the new comers by the governments. No one calls anyone who owns more than 5 acres a refugee in any sense of the word. And no muslim punjabi migrant got any lesser land in Pakistani punjab.
It was basically a land swap. But in this swap the sikhs saw their land increase and the muslims had their decreased.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Dude what are you talking about. It was all about land reallocation in Punjab. The Sikhs left their land in Pakistani Punjab and got land in Indian Punjab. The muslims left their land in Indian punjab and were reallocated land in Pakistani punjab. When sikhs and muslims switched sides they found whole villages deserted with no one to claim the fields in their new home. Those abandoned villages and fields were allocated to the new comers by the governments. No one calls anyone who owns more than 5 acres a refugee in any sense of the word. And no muslim punjabi migrant got any lesser land in Pakistani punjab.
It was basically a land swap. But in this swap the sikhs saw their land increase and the muslims had their decreased.

Panjabi immigrants had to show "claims" and got half of that in Pak.. most didn't ..

Locals benefited from it..

Ch Pervaiz Ilahis father became rich by buying claims from immigrants.

 

[Kabira]

Dude what are you talking about. It was all about land reallocation in Punjab. The Sikhs left their land in Pakistani Punjab and got land in Indian Punjab. The muslims left their land in Indian punjab and were reallocated land in Pakistani punjab. When sikhs and muslims switched sides they found whole villages deserted with no one to claim the fields in their new home. Those abandoned villages and fields were allocated to the new comers by the governments. No one calls anyone who owns more than 5 acres a refugee in any sense of the word. And no muslim punjabi migrant got any lesser land in Pakistani punjab.
It was basically a land swap. But in this swap the sikhs saw their land increase and the muslims had their decreased.

Mian is probably trolling.

Panjabi immigrants had to show "claims" and got half of that in Pak.. most didn't ..

Locals benefited from it..

Dr Pervaiz Ilahis father became rich by buying claims from immigrants.

In Kharian even urdu speakers got land, though they sold it and moved to Karachi. This was likely the case all over punjab. Also remember only sikhs who owned agricultural land were sikh jatts. Sikh/hindu khatri aroras who made huge part of non-muslim population in west punjab mostly lived in cities like Lahore. And in 1901 British forbade khatris/aroras, mazhabhi sikhs etc to own land. Most of agricultural land left behind by sikhs was in Faisalabad canal colonies region. Which is why one see most of east punjab muslims settled there or in cities like Lahore.

I don't know exact figures but I doubt there was much agricultural land left to reclaim in west punjab. Punjabi muslims in east punjab were majority agriculturists but there was huge population of hindu/sikhs in west punjab who were not. This could be reason why east punjabi muslims couldn't get same amount of land as they owned in east punjab.

 

[M. Sarmad]

You got 25.6% from here? Do you know how many of them were urdu speakers?
http://www.irispunjab.gov.pk/StatisticalReport/Population Census/1951/Census of Pakistan 1951 Population According to Economic Status.pdf

I don't think 25% were all east punjabis. Among them were people from current day Haryana who speak haryanvi and also Delhi which used to be part of British punjab. And UP and Bihar as well. Majority were east punjabis though. That Pak punjabi movie actor Saud is actually Bihari origin.

Nearly six million Muslims were expelled from East Punjab by Hindus and Sikhs. As per (higher) estimates, 1.2 million Muslims left India but didn't reach Pakistan, most of them were from Eastern Punjab (an estimated 0.5-0.8 million). Only 2.5 % of those who made it alive to Pakistan, settled outside Pakistani Punjab. As per 1951 census, i.e. four years later, the total number of "Mohajirs" in Pakistani Punjab was 5.28 million. Do the maths and you will get your answers.

As for the immigrants from the five/six south-eastern districts of Punjab (that today constitute Haryana) not all of them spoke Haryanvi. The areas bordering (now) Punjab had a high percentage of Punjabi speaking Muslims. I personally know a lot of people whose ancestors migrated from Haryana districts, they are as Punjabi as it gets. People like Rana Iqbal Khan of Phool Nagar and Hafiz Saeed of Sargodha have Haryanvi origins, but no one ever considers them "Mohajir" or "Haryanvi" ... Rangari, arguably a dialect of Haryanvi, however, is still spoken by a significant number of Rajput settlers, but they too have fully assimilated into Punjabi culture. Moreover, a large number of Meo Muslims from Mewat region of Haryana chose to stay back in India (on assurance of Gandhi) and today are in majority (up to 80%) in a few districts of Haryana.