about Muslim Brahmins of Pakistan and Kashmir

[S.Y.A]

Syeds (descendents of Pirs, who are respected madly, even if they are azzholez,exploiting poor).

A Syed is a descendant of Holy Prophet through Hazrat Fatima R.A and Hazrat Ali R.A, not of pirs.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

A Syed is a descendant of Holy Prophet through Hazrat Fatima R.A and Hazrat Ali R.A, not of pirs.

I didn't know the English for "gadi nasheen" ?

 

[S.Y.A]

I didn't know the English for "gadi nasheen" ?

well you can say that. just pointing out that they are called Syeds because of the Holy Prophet, and not because they aer descendants of peers. and, you are right, a lot of peers and their descendants are Syeds, and are practically worshiped.

 

[Zibago]

I didn't know the English for "gadi nasheen" ?

Pillow inheriter :-//

 

[Kabira]

In Pakpattan district where most of them are, they are Jatts. It's confusing for many of these Bar tribes, as some of them are called Jatts others Rajputs. Now many of them only identify with their clan e.g Kharrals of Pakpattan/Sahiwal only identify
as Kharral and not Jat or Rajput.
Interesting thing about these Bar tribes is that they were nomadic or pastoral until the 19th century when most of the forested regions of the Bar were cleared by the British.
I think they are the original Sindhi Jats as described in the Chachnama as the population of Sindh was described as mostly made up of Buddhist Jatts or Meds who were nomadic/pastoral. Their clans are usually only Muslim exclusive as well (like Sial, Wattoo, Dogar etc.)

+1 These bar tribes are most likely related to Buddhist nomadic pastoral Sindh jats described by Chinese traveller. There are many reasons to believe that

1. Bar tribes kharrals, watto, sials, fatianas, wasirs etc were nomadic pastoral till 19th century, being rajput and nomadic pastoral are oxymoron.

2. Rajput is title developed in hindi belt and all of their kingdoms were located there. Real rajputs in punjab, potohar etc likely have blood relations with rajputs of rajasthan/delhi/haryana. Khokhars, bhattis, janjuas etc Even though bhattis zamindar in Hafizabad now identify as jatts.

3. Till 19th century British described them as muhamadan jats and even in famous stories of Heer Ranjha and Mirza Jatt.

4. According to British gazetteer muhamadan jat tribes of predatory nature like Kharrals coming from south displaced hindus from their lands in Gujranwala region in 16-17th century.

5. They were bhuddists and converted to Islam and that's why we don't see their hindu/sikh counter parts unlike pretty much all rajputs or many other muslim jatt tribes who have origins in Gujranwala, Sialkot, Lahore region.

Most likely what happened is that after settling down some started to adopt rajput title, others continued with jatt. All these tribes in central punjab identify as mostly jatts and likely those in south punjab identify as rajputs or with their own tribe. Even if they are not same jats as that of Sindh in 7th century which is possibility, they are not rajputs either.

 

[Kambojaric]

Pillow inheriter :-//

That made me lol . Try explaining that too a westerner, pillow inheritor haha. How about "spiritual successor".

 

[Nexus]

Meanwhile the Manj of Sheikhupura only use "Manj" as surname.

Also the Rajputs who migrated in 47.. don't marry or "mingle" among the local Rajputs... heck e Panjabi Rajputs don't mingle with the rohatki aka haryanvi Rajputs.

Why ? Because migrants identify as muhajirs ? Or both consider eachother inferior ?

And what about Sindhi Rajputs ? Do they mix with punjabi and migrant rajputs ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why ? Because migrants identify as muhajirs ? Or both consider eachother inferior ?

And what about Sindhi Rajputs ? Do they mix with punjabi and migrant rajputs ?

Panjabis who migrated don't call themselves "muhajir".

According to them .. all they don't marry local Rajputs because they don't have any way of ascertaining even if they are Rajput .. hence they marry among their own Rajput community that also migrated from east Panjab... but things are changing.

Don't know about Sindhi and Panjabi Rajputs.

I know people who are jatt and married among Pashtuns..

I'm Baluch and have Pashtun in laws. So hardly any of that matters these days.

 

[Nexus]

Panjabis who migrated don't call themselves "muhajir".

According to them .. all they don't marry local Rajputs because they don't have any way of ascertaining even if they are Rajput .. hence they marry among their own Rajput community that also migrated from east Panjab... but things are changing.

Don't know about Sindhi and Panjabi Rajputs.

I know people who are jatt and married among Pashtuns..

I'm Baluch and have Pashtun in laws. So hardly any of that matters these days.

How can one find out that other party is also a Rajput ? It must be difficult to prove your rajput origins since Jats and Rajputs are really mixed up in Pakistan. (Same jaat and gotras)

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

How can one find out that other party is also a Rajput ? It must be difficult to prove your rajput origins since Jats and Rajputs are really mixed up in Pakistan. (Same jaat and gotras)

Well according to a friend ... they are connected in one way or other..

I mean they know either have some far off , mutual relations or simply their elders know each other etc.

I mean if A & B are getting married... when their folks sit down.. and talk .. they somehow discovered some mutual relatives or maybe their families came from villages that were close to each other and their elders knew em.

People also maintain their family trees.. etc.

 

[Nexus]

Well according to a friend ... they are connected in one way or other..

I mean they know either have some far off , mutual relations or simply their elders know each other etc.

I mean if A & B are getting married... when their folks sit down.. and talk .. they somehow discovered some mutual relatives or maybe their families came from villages that were close to each other and their elders knew em.

People also maintain their family trees.. etc.

Hmm.

But still it must be hard for muhajirs to prove their rajput heritage since they are the one who's migrating to the land of Native punjabi rajputs.

@DESERT FIGHTER do rajputs there have any specific title ? In India rajputs are called
"Hukum" in Rajasthan, "Thakor saab" in UP and "Bapu" in Gujarat.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hmm.

But still it must be hard for muhajirs to prove their rajput heritage since they are the one who's migrating to the land of Native punjabi rajputs.

@DESERT FIGHTER do rajputs there have any specific title ? In India rajputs are called
"Hukum" in Rajasthan, "Thakor saab" in UP and "Bapu" in Gujarat.

Lmao.

Panjabi migrants don't call or get called "muhajirs".

It's only karachiites .. who called "themselves" muhajir for political gains.

 

[Mian Babban]

Hmm.

But still it must be hard for muhajirs to prove their rajput heritage since they are the one who's migrating to the land of Native punjabi rajputs.

@DESERT FIGHTER "Bapu" in Gujarat.

Lmao.

Panjabi migrants don't call or get called "muhajirs".

It's only karachiites .. who called "themselves" muhajir for political gains.

I have heard from the mouths of Punjabis that even today settlers from east Punjab are called "Panahi" (panah guzeen) .

I know people who are jatt and married among Pashtuns..

.

They are usually "kasabgars" among us (known as "kammi" in Punjab)

 

[Zibago]

I have heard from the mouths of Punjabis that even today settlers from east Punjab are called "Panahi" (panah guzeen) .

Hein?
Jhoot

Panjabi migrants don't call or get called "muhajirs".

Most prefer term Urdu speaking now

 

[Nexus]

Lmao.

Panjabi migrants don't call or get called "muhajirs".

It's only karachiites .. who called "themselves" muhajir for political gains.

I know that, I was talking about those rajputs who migrated from Indian Rajasthan, UP, Gujarat and Haryana.