Why Hindi-Urdu is One Language and Arabic is Several

[Rig Vedic]

It makes sense from a historical & cultural point of view that Urdu has a significant part of Sanskrit in it as well, along with Persian & Arabic. Muslim invaders of Persian & Azeri (Turkish) origins invaded the Indian subcontinent, & interacted & made families with the locals of the regions, many whose language was Sanskrit & its other dialects/derivants, such as Prakrit etc. Meaning a new language evolved called 'Hindwi' (which resembles present day Urdu the most), taking the best of both sides (Sanskrit/its derivatives, & Persian/Arabic/Azeri).

It is not correct to call it a new language - it is the old Prakrit language (Khadi Boli, Braj Bhasha etc) with a large number of loan words.

 

[53fd]

The point is, there is no verified independent history for Hindi from Urdu, as there is for Urdu, in terms of literary works & poetry. There are no literary Hindi works & poetry used hundreds of years ago that resemble the Hindi today. The Shudh Hindi used by Indian news channels is a creation of the Indian government post 1947. The Urdu used by Urdu poets over the past few centuries is similar to what you hear on Pakistani news channels, a few old native speakers & government schools today, although the trend is changing (it is diminishing) with Bollywood's Hindustani language affecting Pakistan's youth.

 

[53fd]

street urdu is same to hindi but the formal and proper urdu is not the same to street one.its as simple as that

But formal & proper Urdu used today in Pakistani news channels is similar on many levels to the works of people like Ghalib, Manto, Zafar, Iqbal etc. Shudh/proper Hindi heard on Indian news channels today is nothing but a creation of the Indian government post 1947. Street Urdu is similar to Hindustani because of the influence of Bollywood on Pakistani kids. Older native speakers like my parents & grandparents do not speak like today's kids, they speak proper Urdu. Simple as.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

But formal & proper Urdu used today in Pakistani news channels is similar on many levels to the works of people like Ghalib, Manto, Zafar, Iqbal etc. Shudh/proper Hindi heard on Indian news channels today is nothing but a creation of the Indian government post 1947. Street Urdu is similar to Hindustani because of the influence of Bollywood on Pakistani kids. Older native speakers like my parents & grandparents do not speak like today's kids, they speak proper Urdu. Simple as.

I thought we agreed that there is nothing called shudh hindi and proper urdu.

You agreed to the same in post #83

 

[53fd]

I thought we agreed that there is nothing called shudh hindi and proper urdu.

You agreed to the same in post #83

Yes, but what I meant by this is that older people speak a more refined form of Urdu, while today's kids speak Hindustani coupled with English, Punjabi, Pashto & words from other languages into their 'Urdu'.

 

[alphamale]

But formal & proper Urdu used today in Pakistani news channels is similar on many levels to the works of people like Ghalib, Manto, Zafar, Iqbal etc. Shudh/proper Hindi heard on Indian news channels today is nothing but a creation of the Indian government post 1947. Simple as.

i want to point out that indian channels don't use shudh hindi, they use hindustani or u can say mix of hindustani & shudh hindi. shudh hindi is difficult to understand for masses.

here is example of shudh hindi, when first time i heard this song it was difficult for me to understand it properly.

 

[Rig Vedic]

The point is, there is no verified independent history for Hindi from Urdu, as there is for Urdu, in terms of literary works & poetry. There are no literary Hindi works & poetry used hundreds of years ago that resemble the Hindi today. The Shudh Hindi used by Indian news channels is a creation of the Indian government post 1947. The Urdu used by Urdu poets over the past few centuries is similar to what you hear on Pakistani news channels, a few old native speakers & government schools today, although the trend is changing (it is diminishing) with Bollywood's Hindustani affecting Pakistan's youth.

The language used to be called Hindi, Urdu is the name used after 1800. And if you take Hindi/Urdu and leave out the loan words, what you have is Khadi Boli, the Prakrit dialect of the Delhi region, which dates back 1000 years.

 

[53fd]

i want to point out that indian channels don't use shudh hindi, they use hindustani or u can say mix of hindustani & shudh hindi. shudh hindi is difficult to understand for masses.

here is example of shudh hindi, when first time i heard this song it was difficult for me to understand it properly.

Are you saying a lot of Indian NEWS channels do not use Shudh Hindi? Are you saying that Shudh Hindi is not being taught in a lot of schools, & was a deliberate effort by the Indian government post 1947 to adulterate the language? I'm not saying there aren't regular Hindustani channels or classes taught in Indian schools, but there are many that do that.

 

[53fd]

The language used to be called Hindi, Urdu is the name used after 1800. And if you take Hindi/Urdu and leave out the loan words, what you have is Khari Boli, the Prakrit dialect of the Delhi region, which dates back 1000 years.

The language was called 'Hindwi' by the way. Not Hindi. Amir Khusro called it Hindwi. And it doesn't matter what the language is called, the average Hindi speaker today cannot understand the works of Ghalib, Bahadur Shah Zafar, Iqbal, Khusro etc from centuries ago; the average Urdu speaker can. As i already mentioned, Prakrit is NOT Hindi, it is a derivant of Sanskrit.

 

[Rig Vedic]

As i already mentioned, Prakrit is NOT Hindi, it is a derivant of Sanskrit.

Hindi/Urdu minus loan words = Khadi Boli, which is a Prakrit variant.

In other words, Khadi Boli (Prakrit) plus loan words = Urdu

 

[53fd]

Hindi/Urdu minus loan words = Khadi Boli, which is a Prakrit variant.

In other words, Khadi Boli (Prakrit) plus loan words = Urdu

You should also clarify that Prakrit & Khari Boli are NOT Hindi as we know it today. Of course Khari Boli & Prakrit are older than Urdu & Hindi, & both are derived from them. But you agree that Urdu is older than Hindi, right? That was the whole discussion out there.

 

[alphamale]

Are you saying a lot of Indian NEWS channels do not use Shudh Hindi? Are you saying that Shudh Hindi is not being taught in a lot of schools, & was a deliberate effort by the Indian government post 1947 to adulterate the language? I'm not saying there aren't regular Hindustani channels or classes taught in Indian schools, but there are many that do that.

shudh hindi is just confined to schools, central govt. paper work & hindu religious org.. sometimes even hindi teachers don't use shudh hindi while teaching.

 

[53fd]

The roots of Urdu make sense, because it makes sense from a cultural & historical point of view:

"It makes sense from a historical & cultural point of view that Urdu has a significant part of Sanskrit in it as well, along with Persian & Arabic. Muslim invaders of Persian & Azeri (Turkish) origins invaded the Indian subcontinent, & interacted & made families with the locals of the regions, many whose language was Sanskrit & its other dialects/derivants, such as Prakrit etc. Meaning a new language evolved called 'Hindwi' (which resembles present day Urdu the most), taking the best of both sides (Sanskrit/its derivatives, & Persian/Arabic/Azeri).

Persian/Dari has been used in Afghanistan for a long time. As I mentioned, the rulers who invaded the Indian subcontinent were Persian (meaning they spoke Persian, belonging to the part of present day Afghanistan & Iran, the areas where Persian/Dari was spoken). The people who invaded Persia (parts of present day Afghanistan & Iran where Persian was spoken) spoke Azeri, which is similar to the Turkish spoken today. Also, don't forget that Persian is similar to Arabic itself. That's why you see all the Persian/Arabic/Turkish influences in Urdu, besides the obvious Sanskrit chunk in the language."

There has been no independent, verified history that a separate language called Hindi (as we know it today) was formed around that time. There have been no literary people (for Hindi as we know today) from those times that can be understood by average Hindi speaker today. Poets like Ghalib, Bahadur Shah Zafar, Iqbal are all Urdu poets, not Hindi poets.

 

[Rig Vedic]

You should also clarify that Prakrit & Khari Boli are NOT Hindi as we know it today. Of course Khari Boli & Prakrit are older than Urdu & Hindi, & both are derived from them. But you agree that Urdu is older than Hindi, right? That was the whole discussion out there.

Modern pure Hindi is almost the same as Khadi Boli. Many of the loan words were deprecated. I would support renaming India's national language as Khadi Boli, for historical clarity.

 

[53fd]

Modern pure Hindi is almost the same as Khadi Boli. Some, but not all, of the loan words were dropped. I would support renaming India's national language as Khadi Boli, for historical clarity.

Yes, Hindi was derived from Khari Boli, just as Urdu was. Urdu spoken today is almost the same as Khari Boli as well. However, the Urdu spoken today is an older language than the Hindi spoken today, & I've explained it in thorough detail over the past few posts of mine.