Why Hindi-Urdu is One Language and Arabic is Several

[LaBong]

INDIAN NEWSPAPER REPORTS, c1868-1942: Parts 1 to 6

Here, a list of newspapers in India before independence.

 

[LaBong]

Nastaliq was predominant for Urdu/Hindi/Hindustani speakers, Devanagari was not prominent for Urdu/Hindi/Hindustani speakers, but it was predominant for Sanskrit, from a religious point of view for Hindus.

Let's refrain watching languages through a religious colored prism. Bengali as a language is very close to Sanskrit and has an independent script derived from Brahmi and spoken and loved by both Hindu and Muslim Bengalis.

 

[53fd]

your given link claims

"Arabic and Persian languages merged with Hindi and a new language emerged — Urdu. About 4000 Arabic and Persian words got absorbed into 60,000 to 70,000 Hindi words and became a part of Hindi"

which is quite true.....
muslims when claimed seperate country (Pakistan) they wanted it to portray as true arab loyal country and started develop pakistan and its culture so that it can have language and culture separate and distinct from India....
but the truth is urdu is artificial language

when muslims came from the west they had their own script and language... slowly by the influence of the indigenous language(hindi) a new language came into being which is know as URDU...

Well, obviously that's not true. There has been not one Hindi author/poet from hundreds of years ago that wrote literary work that is understandable to the average Hindi speaker today. Meaning the language used at that time was not Hindi. Doesn't matter if someone calls it 'Hindi' or 'Hindwi', if someone today cannot understand the language used at that time, its not the same language. Average Urdu speakers can understand the works of Khusro, Ghalib, Zafar, Iqbal.

 

[53fd]

INDIAN NEWSPAPER REPORTS, c1868-1942: Parts 1 to 6

Here, a list of newspapers in India before independence.

I'm not claiming Nastaliq was the most predominant for all languages in India, I was specifically referring to the Hindi-Urdu debate. Sanskrit prior to 1867 was used solely for Hindu religious texts in the Sanskrit language. After 1867, it was used for Urdu poetry & literary works. Nastaliq was the predominant script for 'Hindustani' at that time, not Devanagari. Of course there were more popular scripts than Nastaliq for other languages, not 'Hindustani'.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Those were not 'Hindi', those were in Sanskrit & its other derivants. However, the Urdu used by Khusro & other poets closely resembles today's Rekhta Urdu spoken in Pakistan today.

The literature of Tulsidas, written in the 1500's is quite comprehensible to a speaker of modern pure Hindi. Kabir's poetry is even older, and also has no loan words.

The distinguishing characteristic of Urdu is the borrowing from Persian, Arabic and Turkish.

 

[BJP*]

@bilalhaider
what was the language spoken in India before muslims came to india (years around 1400 A.D.)
what was the need of urdu for muslims when they already had persian and arabic?
have you ever thought from where the phrases derived in urdu such as " karta hoon", "aata hoon" etc??

 

[LaBong]

look guys all languages in northern and eastern India are based on Prakrit sub-stratum, while Hindi/Urdu, Punjabi are derived from Sauraseni Prakrit , Bengali, Maithili, Asamiya etc are from Magdhi Prakrit.

 

[gulte]

Those were not 'Hindi', those were in Sanskrit & its other derivants. However, the Urdu used by Khusro & other poets closely resembles today's Rekhta Urdu spoken in Pakistan today.

Even if it wasn't used to be called Hindi (at that time), every formally educated Hindi speaker can able to understand those works without necessarily knowing Sanskrit.

 

[53fd]

The literature of Tulsidas, written in the 1500's is quite comprehensible to a speaker of modern pure Hindi.

Yes, in the 1500's. Amir Khusro, the Urdu poet used to write poems in the 1200's. It doesn't matter if he called the language 'Hindwi', he could call the language he used anything he wanted, his works resemble the Rekhta Urdu used today. They are understood by the common Urdu speaker, but not at all by the average Hindi speaker. Meaning he was not a Hindi poet.

 

[guest11]

Guys, Urdu was the language of classes and Hindustani was for masses before partition for most of North India. My grandparents never learned Hindi during their schooling, they learned Urdu.

Regarding, the Tamil anti Hindi agitation in 60's was the result of pure politics where politicians misguided Tamil people that they will lose their culture to north Indians. That game is still on in Maharashtra, courtesy of our beloved Thakhraeys.

 

[53fd]

@bilalhaider
what was the language spoken in India before muslims came to india (years around 1400 A.D.)
what was the need of urdu for muslims when they already had persian and arabic?
have you ever thought from where the phrases derived in urdu such as " karta hoon", "aata hoon" etc??

South Indian Muslims spoke Malayalam and all those other ancient South Indian languages. Urdu was not produced artificially, it was formed in a natural way when the Persian rulers with Turkish backgrounds interacted with the locals of the region. Meaning Urdu has a significant chunk of Sanskrit, Persian & Arabic. No one is denying the Sanskrit used in Urdu (of course Sanskrit is an older language than Urdu). It came in when locals interacted with the invading rulers. However, there was no language 'Hindi' used at that time that is understandable to average Hindi speakers today.

Persian was the language of the courts in the Indian subcontinent for a long time before it was replaced by Urdu over time.

 

[gulte]

South Indian Muslims spoke Malayalam and all those other ancient South Indian languages. Urdu was not produced artificially, it was formed in a natural way when the Persian rulers with Turkish backgrounds interacted with the locals of the region. Meaning Urdu has a significant chunk of Sanskrit, Persian & Arabic. No one is denying the Sanskrit used in Urdu (of course Sanskrit is an older language than Urdu). It came in when locals interacted with the invading rulers. However, there was no language 'Hindi' used at that time that is understandable to average Hindi speakers today.

Persian was the language of the courts in the Indian subcontinent for a long time before it was replaced by Urdu over time.

You are wrong, if Hindi speakers can able to comprehend kabir poetry(no arabic words) and ramacharitra manas (no arabic words) without any translation, it only implies that the language spoken at that time is closest to Hindi and not Urdu.

 

[53fd]

You are wrong, if Hindi speakers can able to comprehend kabir poetry(no arabic words) and ramacharitra manas (no arabic words) without any translation, it only implies that the language spoken at that time is closest to Hindi and not Urdu.

So are you denying that the Hindi used today has no arabic or persian words in it? Also, are you saying that Kabir poetry & the manas poetry (I haven't read them) don't use any Persian words? Are you sure the 'Hindi' they used in their poetry was the Hindi actually used & understood by people today?

 

[gulte]

So are you denying today that Hindi today has no arabic or persian words? Are you sure the 'Hindi' they used in their poetry was the Hindi actually used today?

Yes, why can't you search for ramacharitra manas on internet and read it.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

So are you denying today that Hindi today has no arabic or persian words? Also, are you saying that Kabir poetry & the manas poetry (I haven't read them) don't use any Persian words? Are you sure the 'Hindi' they used in their poetry was the Hindi actually used today?

Of course not. Both Hindi and Urdu have undergone a fundamental change over centuries. Are you saying that the Urdu used by Ghalib et al is the urdu spoken today in everyday use?