What’s up lately with Pak-KSA relations ?

[RIP Pak LAW]

When your own PM keep chanting around the world that Pakistan won't be part of anyone wars moving forward than why do you expect Saudia or others to be part of your war as well. OIC was always over rated, time for Pakistan to build relations with countries on one by one basis. Forget OIC, even EU scummed to Indian pressure by postponing their voting against Indian atrocities in Kashmir.

Pakistan ditched Saudis when they asked for help in Syria.

Correction : Yemen

 

[Genghis khan1]

Correction : Yemen

It started from Syria, Yemen came in later. Yemen was a round 2 after Iranian success in Syria. During Yemen Saudis were in Panic mode and we ditch them again this time publicly.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

It started from Syria, Yemen came in later. Yemen was a round 2 after Iranian success in Syria. During Yemen Saudis were in Panic mode and we ditch them again this time publicly.

In Syria, Pakistan would had never involved and everybody knew it (including Saudis) already but in Yemen, Saudi Arab was in direct threat because of the close proximity. Luckily for the Saudis, Trump won elections who kept Iran in check in Yemen. Iran couldn't involved herself into Yemen like the way they are in Iraq and Syria. Yes and I agree to this that we sort of ditched Saudia Arab that time though we have our own solid reasons for that.

 

[Wood]

I think that by trying to exploit this opportunity, all the more we'd be taken advantage of by the end of it. The economic aspect of this sure is alluring, However the more we give into Saudi Arabia's demands, the more they tend to manipulate and control/use us. We didn't give into their demands in Yemen, now they are trying to punish us through numerous ways. The malaysian summit is an example. Modi getting a high esteemed award despite his actions against muslims is also a example.

The reason they are able to harm us in this way is because of their influence over us. This influence comes from them having control over the pakistanis that work in the gulf states. Therefore i do not think the gulf golden sparrow is worth the sacrifice of our dignity when there are other beneficial ways to go as well. The world is huge, opportunities are everywhere. The main thing is that, you have to work hard to get there. We Pakistanis should just learn to do that.

Just want to point a couple of things:

a) The Malaysian summit cannot be simply attributed to Yemen episode. The Malaysian summit was seen as a foundation of a power bloc that included Turkey and Iran. Both enemies to the interest of Saudi Arabia. Pakistan standing together with those two would naturally not go well with the Saudi Arabians. They expect Pakistan to remain in the Gulf camp considering their above and beyond benevolence in stabilizing the Pakistan economy.

b) The awards to Modi and Trump were just flattery. At best, it could be seen as an intent by Gulf states to have a mutually beneficial bilateral relationship with India and US respectively. As sovereign countries, the Gulf states reserve that right. It has nothing to do with the personalities of Modi or Trump as that would matter little to them.

 

[HAIDER]

Patience and never forget. For now, we're on our own.

everyone has to protect there own national interest, don't know when we ll learn this lesson.

 

[Super Falcon]

Pak specially establishment now stop serving their cause but work for common cause stop investing for their luxuries at the cost of normal citizens

 

[Imad.Khan]

Some of the biggest winners of the British Empire and the American frontier days were regular people, people who exploited opportunity, who joined the goldrush, who joined the East India company. Those people made money, came back to the UK, bought land and titles and suddenly were buying their way into the houses of parliament and the house of lords.

Wealth can do that for us too. An educated wealth population will have higher aspirations - they won't tolerate those half baked Naya Pakistan we're being delivered and they certainly won't tolerate the pathetic Pakistan hating excuse of a political opposition we have. New money will fund new faces and new policies in politics too.

In essence i agree with you, but the concept of only the rich being able to enter politics is what saddens me. What we need is the right person for the right job not a rich person for every job. That is what is essentially wrong with the concept of this type of democracy and thats exactly why Socrates was against it.

 

[BATMAN]

Here's the link to the Indian news from 6th January.... still the favorite among zanibaboons.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ters-meet-on-kashmir/articleshow/73990373.cms

 

[HaMoTZeMaS]

It started from Syria, Yemen came in later. Yemen was a round 2 after Iranian success in Syria. During Yemen Saudis were in Panic mode and we ditch them again this time publicly.

In Syria, Pakistan would had never involved and everybody knew it (including Saudis) already but in Yemen, Saudi Arab was in direct threat because of the close proximity. Luckily for the Saudis, Trump won elections who kept Iran in check in Yemen. Iran couldn't involved herself into Yemen like the way they are in Iraq and Syria. Yes and I agree to this that we sort of ditched Saudia Arab that time though we have our own solid reasons for that.

Pakistan decided to stay away from Yamen. and then Sudan offered its services and Manpower.
Now what they are getting ?.. other than two type of Bags. One full of dollars, other full of Bodies.

Considering the nature of Pakistanis, If PA had taken the bait that time and landed in yamen,
the same Mouths who are crying now for not backing Saudis then, would still be crying for why wasting presious lives for the ill doings or sectarian tussels between persians and arabs

 

[Dual Wielder]

It’s always a two way road. You have to reciprocate the favors. Pakistan ditched Saudis when they asked for help in Syria. GCC wasn’t asking much. Syrians were butchered by Barrels bombs while Pakistan decided to look the other way. Saudis had to spend billions to persuade reluctant Uncle Sam to do the dirty job via drone and cruise strike.

We look the other way when Arabs were butchered, now they are just returning the favor. Don’t be mad, accept responsibility.

What the hell is wrong with you? We NEVER ditched those swines, we have had a long understanding written in stone that 'IF' their soverigenty is ever at stake we will protect 'central arabia' as it if it was our own homeland. It's not our fault the uncivilised horde have been trigger happy lately, eating more then they can chew. Syria is a sovereign country (well it was) before regional powers made it their proxy battle field, and not only destorying millions of lives, but made Israel more powerful. Syria used to be a significant buffer state for the surounding muslim countries against the zionist kingdom before it was weakned by the treacherous so called muslim leaders including the Sultan, and enabling foreign forces to have a foothold in sacred muslim land unopposed.

What business is it of the house of saud to meddle with Syrian affairs, Libya's, Iraqs or Yemens, these zionist puppets destroyed the middle east doing their masters bidding thinking it will allow them to keep sitting in their illigitimate thrones. This sick out of place mantra of: "oh we betrayed the house of saud by not bombing sovereign muslim countries to the stone age, and not fulfilling the muslim killing qouta.. now we must pay the price" ... seriously get a grip, you can't keep living under the shadow of arab despots.. Their very aim is to divide muslim lands, like what they did with the Caliphate, they sold out Jerusalem back then and today they made it official. If you keep bowing down to them it will only bring more misery, may they rot in hell for all the suffering they have brought to the muslims around the world.

 

[undercover JIX]

what options?????

they starting few projects in Pakistan, they know our auqaat.....

 

[A.A. Khan]

A very interesting article regarding Saudi-India relations as well as the $44 bn(now $70 bn) refinery that has hit a snag. Probably Saudi-India relationship is'nt of the level that Pakistan has with Saudis, and its only thanks to the red carpet investments which has been blockaded by Indian politics rofl. Indians have been trying to maneuvre Saudis with very few carrots:


Tremendous strides have been made in India’s relations with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) in the past few years.

The relationship has indeed progressed “from a purely buyer-seller relationship” toward a “closer strategic partnership that will include Saudi investments in downstream oil and gas projects.”

However, the delay in welcoming Saudi money and recent events in India regarding Kashmir and CAA have made the relationship tenuous.

To get an idea of the already existing scale of the India-Saudi bilateral relations, let’s examine some facts and figures.

India is the third largest export destination of Saudi Arabia at $19.4 billion (after China and Japan). In 2018-19 (as per DGFT), the India-Saudi bilateral trade has increased by 23.83 % to US $ 34.03 billion.

India imports 200,000 tons of LPG every month from the Kingdom. The 2.6 million (as of August 2019) strong Indian community in Saudi Arabia is the largest expatriate community in the Kingdom.

The Haj pilgrimage is another important component of bilateral relations. Nearly 7,00,000 Indians also visit the Kingdom to perform Hajj or Umra every year. The Hajj quota was increased by 24, 975 in 2019, enabling 2,00, 000 Indians performing Hajj in 2019.

This determines that until now the bilateral relationship has been defined by religious travel, migrant workers, remittances and oil trade. However, the scope to go above and beyond this towards more meaningful investment has been tapped by both the governments. In its largest ever push to bilateral relations, Saudi Arabia is believed to be looking to invest US $100 billion in India, in areas of energy, refining, petrochemicals, infrastructure, agriculture and mining.

Oil giant Saudi Aramco has two major investment plans in the country: strategic investment in the greenfield petroleum refinery in Maharashtra and a $15 billion worth 20% stake acquisition in the refining and petrochemicals business of Reliance Industries (RIL).

Ratnagiri

The proposed Maharashtra project is the largest greenfield refinery in India and will involve investments from Saudi Arabia’s Aramco, the United Arab Emirates’ ADNOC and Indian public-sector oil companies. Ratnagiri Refinery and Petrochemicals Ltd (RRPCL) which is implementing this project is a joint venture between the Indian Oil Corporation (IOCl), Bharat Petroleum Corporation (BPCL) and Hindustan Petroleum Corporation (HPCL). Saudi Arabian Oil Company – Saudi Aramco and the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company (ADNOC) are also partners for this project and own 50 % stake in the mammoth project.

The 1.2 million barrels a day refinery and associated petrochemical project has been projected as one of the biggest projects in the country that will bring large foreign direct investment (FDI).

Recent reports indicate that the benchmark value has been raised from $44 billion to $70 billion for the project. This would require Indian PSUs to raise their investment from $22 billion to $35 billion, an increase of Rs 1 lakh crore, financing plans for which are not yet public, and are the object of much discussion, given the weakened cash flows of Indian PSUs and public finances.

There have already been incredible delays on part of the government of India (GoI) with regard to the refinery and the Saudi’s have of late clearly begun to indicate their restlessness “the ball is in their court”

Earlier the project was proposed to come up in Nanar village in Ratnagiri district some 400 kms South of Mumbai. Due to opposition from the locals the project was relocated to neighbouring Raigad, 100 km south of the financial capital. Of course, there would legitimate concerns of the locals, but it is beyond belief that an agreement of this scale was made without providing adequate assurances to the original owners of the land or making them partners in this huge investment.

Apart from land acquisition issues now there are reports that India is looking at cutting capacity at this oil refinery to match lower fuel demand projections and contain costs which jumped to $70 billion due to stringent environment norms and relocation of the site.

Supreme Court has mandated that you cannot sell petroleum coke and so to produce fuel without any such residue requires use of best in class technology and will cost more.

So, the refinery which was initially projected to cost $44 billion (about Rs 3.08 lakh crore) will now cost to an estimated $70 billion (about Rs 4.9 lakh crore) because costs of meeting environment norms such as not producing petroleum coke, and relocation of the plant were not estimated.

Also, the cost of land acquisition should have been calculated when plans of the project of such size were being made. The mega project was anticipated to be commissioned by 2022, however incessant delays have pushed the deadline to 2025.

Other investments

India also needs Saudi support to build its planned emergency crude reserves as a buffer against volatility. India has at present 5.3 million tons of underground reserves in 3 locations Vizag, Mangalore and Padur which can meet about 10 days of the country’s oil needs.



New Delhi plans two new reserves with a combined capacity of 6.5 million tons enough to cover for an additional 12 days. Indian Strategic Petroleum Reserve Ltd (ISPRL) has signed an agreement with Aramco to lease part of the 2.5 million tone Padur storage in Karnataka.

Cooperation and investment from Saudi Arabia cannot be left to errors if India wants to achieve emergency crude reserves of its seven (another 6.5 mt facility at Padur in Karnataka, Chandikhole in Odisha, at Bikaner in Rajasthan and Rajkot in Gujarat) Strategic Petroleum Reserves facilities which would together hold about 128 million barrels of oil.

Religious politics

Riyadh has become more amenable to India’s concerns on radicalisation and terrorism. Cooperation in the fields of anti-piracy operations and CT has been an important part of India’s ties. The extradition agreement between the two countries has greatly aided the cause of India’s fight against terrorism with Riyadh handing over individuals wanted in India.

Saudi Arabia has also been extremely obliging in its position on Kashmir, providing subtle support to GoI’s policy.

Closer relations with the custodian of the Muslim holy shrines assists in appeasing and validating the Indians government’s actions among sections of the Muslim community.

When the Saudi Crown Prince Md Bin Salman expressed understanding about India’s approach and actions in Jammu and Kashmir, it was a significant accomplishment for the Modi government and a definite snub to Pakistan.

However, the blowback over the vociferous criticism of India’s policies vis-à-vis CAA-NRC led by a bloc of Muslim countries (Pakistan, Malaysia and Turkey) will eventually affect India’s foreign relations with all the Gulf nations especially with the KSA.

Also read: The Bias Against Muslims in the CAA-NRC Fulfils a Promise the BJP Made in 1996

Within the Organisation of Islamic Countries (OIC), the pressure is beginning to show on Saudi Arabia and UAE. It is only a matter of time before the Kingdom and self-professed leader of the Sunni Muslim world, succumbs to the negative propaganda by Pakistan wrapped around a Hindu-Muslim narrative, and withdraws its subtle support to India over Kashmir.

In fact, the negative repercussions have already come in the form of Saudi Arabia agreeing to convene a special Foreign Ministers’ meeting of the OIC devoted to Kashmir. Although this is being touted as quid pro quo to Islamabad for giving a pass to the Islamic Summit in Kuala Lumpur, the fact remains that this recompense to appease Pakistan is at the expense of India’s foreign policy interests.

Projected to become the world’s third largest economy Saudi Arabia is contemplating large scale investment in India. The fact that India has the world’s third largest Muslim population is certainly a consideration in Saudi Arabia’s Asian portfolio. Commencing work on the refinery would have opened the doors to Saudi investment in other sectors such as agriculture and infrastructure which PM Modi himself has touted as an “opportunity multiplier.”

However, with blisters in the very first trial it is doubtful that the Saudis would want to further scald themselves on purpose. In any case a slowdown in the economy as well as a shift towards EVs has affected fuel demand.

Aramco, which raised $25.6 billion by selling 1.5% shares in the world’s biggest initial public offering recently, has also been expected to participate in the proposed sale of public sector oil marketing and refining company BPCL. The participation of Aramco in the sale programme through the disinvestment of BPCL and other state assets is crucial for bridging the huge fiscal deficit that India faces currently.

Dynamics

The current India-Saudi relationship is a machine with multiple moving parts, many at the same time.

Saudi’s plans to invest in Ratnagiri or BPCL RIL appear to be options, of which only one will be exercised. Recent news of GoI approaching the Delhi high court to stall the investment in RIL, leaves only Ratnagiri and 8PCL as the two options.

Growing pressure from non-Wahabbi Muslim nations on Saudi Arabia with regard to Kashmir and CAA requires close monitoring by the MEA. If that support snaps, then UAE may follow and OIC , hither to quiet, may become belligerent.

A friendly Saudi royalty can be ensured only via investment red carpets. The lack of it could lead to unsustainable diplomatic pressures and worrying noises on oil export to India. The only relationship that will continue is of NRIs continuing to work in Saudi Arabia and remit nearly $10 billion per year.

 

[surge]

We cant do/say anything as they are one of our masters. We need to grow our economy and educate our masses which will make us gradually independent.

 

[jupiter2007]

Call the meeting and invite FM of 6 countries to Pakistan.

Malaysia
Turkey
Qatar
Iran
Indonesia
Azerbaijan

Pakistan has the potential to surpass Saudis in every developement catagory. We will reach that stage when we reject our subservient political leaderships which have been biting us since our countey was born.

Majority of Saudis are lazy. They don’t want to work but want to get paid.

 

[jupiter2007]

Royal family is from a Jewish tribe of ANZA BEN WA'EL so they are very unpredictable at this time. They are going to further normalize their ties with Israel and Israeli Jews will be able to Visit Mecca abs Medina.