Vikramditya & the IAC Vikrant Threat To Pakistan Waters

[Penguin]

You forgot the 24 Mig-29Ks in your analysis.

No, just have to time the packages to arrive at a time when the Mig29K's are out doing something else (e.g. responding to a diversion) and jam the crap out of them and everybody else. 

Yes Submarines remain the most preferred option, but does pakistan have the required Submarines for that? My knowledge of submarines is limited so could you please explain if the objective could be achieved by the current PN Subs and do take into account the future ones they are to induct.

Nothing wrong with the subs PN has got AFAIK

 

[Penguin]

CBG's are integrated to Satellites as well. CBG's will try to avoid such a massive confrontation scenarios, CBG's have their war doctrines related to these kind of scenarios and how to avoid them. The Frigates and destroyers have more fire power as well as close range automated guns.
At any given day CBG group is expected to have more fire power than the adversary, if the scenario is different then CBG's avoid confrontation and opt for defensive maneuvers.

Just responding to what UKBengali gave in terms of numbers. It would not be hard to increase the numbers. I know what IN has. Untill Barak 8 becomes operational, it's longest range modern naval SAM comprises the 3S-90 single rail launcher for the 45km 9M317 (SA-N-12), backed by the 10km Barak 1 and AK630s.

 

[UKBengali]

No, just have to time the packages to arrive at a time when the Mig29K's are out doing something else (e.g. responding to a diversion) and jam the crap out of them and everybody else.

At least 6 of the Mig-29Ks will be tasked with protecting the carrier, and that means engaging hostile ships and aircraft which may try to launch missiles at the carrier

If the rest of them, 18 on total, are "out doing something else", that means the CVBG group is able to do more than be busy defending itself. Even if it is responding to a diversion the amount of resources to be able to successfully attack the Indian CVBG group will be enormous.

 

[MilSpec]

Pay attention: why do you think USN leased a Swedish conventional diesel powered submarine?
In a defensive scenario, you don't go hunting (chasing) a carrier group but you position yourself where the carrier group is likely to appear and patrol. SS(K)s are VERY effective against surface ships as they are more quiet than SSNs.

30 targets isn't al that much: 10 Mirage fighters with 1 AShM each, plus a pair of MPA's with 4 AShM each, a frigate with 8 AShM, a submarine with 4 AShM. Use JF-17 and you can have 5 jets with 10 AShM and 5 jets flying shotgun. Throw in 1 more frigate and 1 more submarine and you have 42 missile targets (plus 2 submarines lurking afterwards with torpedos). Add a pair of Azmat missile boats for some additional complexity. Add some low level strike aircraft armed with stand-off PGMs and pretty soon you're group is really busy fending for itself (i.e. not being used offensively).

Ok when we are situating the appreciation, instead of appreciating the situation, how about accounting for 12 MKI (hunter killer config) and 6 Mig29 SMT flying Air Sup providing forward patrol against the threat??? With 4 Jaguars (maritme strike) 2 kamorta class ASW Corvettes and INS Kolkatta class with a couple of Kilo class on hunting missions coinciding with Carrier operations....To spice things up....

 

[Contrarian]

Ok when we are situating the appreciation, instead of appreciating the situation, how about accounting for 12 MKI (hunter killer config) and 6 Mig29 SMT flying Air Sup providing forward patrol against the threat??? With 4 Jaguars (maritme strike) 2 kamorta class ASW Corvettes and INS Kolkatta class with a couple of Kilo class on hunting missions coinciding with Carrier operations....To spice things up....

Till the time Barak 8 is not installed on the Carrier and till the time we dont get AAW frigates to be part of the CBG - our CBG is not fit to fight any competent enemy.

 

[MilSpec]

Till the time Barak 8 is not installed on the Carrier and till the time we dont get AAW frigates to be part of the CBG - our CBG is not fit to fight any competent enemy.

I assumed, they were operational in the scenario where JF17's were qualified for AsCM's and Maritime roles... aren't we just fooling around?

 

[Contrarian]

I assumed, they were operational in the scenario where JF17's were qualified for AsCM's and Maritime roles... aren't we just fooling around?

I didnt actually consider that.
lol

Just pissed at the pace of acquisition of Barak 8 and dedicated AAW's.
Carrier is a liability without them against any proper Nation.

 

[MilSpec]

I didnt actually consider that.
lol

Just pissed at the pace of acquisition of Barak 8 and dedicated AAW's.
Carrier is a liability without them against any proper Nation.

We are pissed at DRDO, HAL, BEL, OFB because of delay's and poor development time frame, I have always wondered how come MoD's defence procurement and planning commission has zero accountability???

 

[Fireurimagination]

Pakistan's Navy is defensive in nature and we will not exactly be sailing the CBG to Pakistan's shore on the first day of conflict. So will the relatively small PN leave it shores to hunt for the Indian CBG.

 

[PiyaraPakistan]

well bhai apki fauj sirf peeth peeche war ker sakti hai aur uske genrals sirf golf khel sakte hain ya shadi haals , petrol pumps & bakeries ka mangement dekh sakte hain ...agar unme jara bhi quuwaat aur ghairat hoti to mana kerne per bhi drone attacks ke baad sarwe drones jo pakistani ser zameen se urthe hain unhe tabah ker dete per unhone kya kiya , unhone kya ker liya slalllaa aur raymond davis affair ke baad

bhai ji hum aap per attack kyon karenm uska fayeda kya milega humko aur jab hamara kaam khud apke so called "strategick assets " & "freinds not masters" ker rahe hain to hum apne haath kyon gande karen

rahi baat bari machali= INS vikrmaditya ko kabu/tabah kerne ki to bhai roka kisne hain koshish ker ke dekh lo apko apnee aukat khud pata chal jayegi

rahi baat kashmir ki to pichle 66 saalon me apne apna adha mulk to gawa hi diya hai gilgit aur balistan aur baloochistan ka adha hissa to chinio ke paas 50 saal ke liye girvi para hai KPK aur FATA apse sambhale nahi sambhal rahe aur aapka sara zor kashmir hasil kerne pe ..achhee baat yoonhi lage raho hamara kaam aur asaan bana rahe ho aap

hum pakistan ko fateh kerke kya bhuute bhoonenge jabki apke under hi to sabse bara bomb haio wo apki barbaadi ke liye kafee hai (sectairinism,relegeous inolrence , corruoption,poverty & population explosion) hame to bas apko bekar ki baaton me uljhaye rakhna hai aur ye kaam aap log poori shiddat aur mehnat se ker rahe ho ...lage raho ji

now abou guru dutt well he is my most admired and loved cine director and actor of bollywood

Guru Dutt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

on the other hand i never like sanjay dutt though sunil dutt his father had his own class

now about mumbai well remeber tassawurr rana and dawood gilllani / richard hadley well if you dont know about them its even better

what your so called "non state actors " did in mumbai on 26/11 well we killed 9 owt of ten terrorist and captured one(ajmal qasab= resident of faridkoat punjab) and used him to his full potential to show the real face of PA /ISI and your nation is still paying the dividents for that(like if you have ever been to a eourpean or US airport)

so bhai hum hindustani hain aur hamare hamle kerne ka aur badla lene ka bhi andaz alag hai jo apko tab samjh aata hai jab aap sab kuch kho chukke hote ho ab bhi dushmani kerni hai to 100 bar bismillah

786
Dutt bhai now don’t play ping pong with me. I am boring with your ‘Kitabi baten’ whatever your biased historians or media tells you or creation of your mind. Yes we know that there are some law n order issues in our country but these are not permanent problems, most of the countries faced these types of problems in their development stage, solution will take some time. We are getting valuable experience from these problems with the passage of time and applying it to resolve these issues. Swat and Srilanka are best example for you to understand the nature of our said experience.

Gilgit-Baltistan—Haha just want to say cheap propaganda. Look in my avatar and guess where I am…Bhai it’s from Gilgit-Baltistan, very beautiful place indeed. We regularly paid visits to Gilgit –Baltistan, twice in a year, we found that local people are very loving in nature infect/perhaps they love Pakistan more than I. O bhai kabhi pictures mebhi is alakay ko dekha hai(lol, ab internet khol ker dekhnay na lug jana), you are sitting hundred & thousands of kilometer away from this place and commenting/ making propaganda against our back bone. Just silly (sorry for that).

Balochistan- Yeah yeah we know said issue is very popular now days, we are well aware that who is exploiting this issue, but the reality is that 99.99% Balochs are Pro-Pakistani. All the parties are in “Qoumi Dhara”. Yes there are some small (really tiny) groups involved in killing and bomb blasts but we believe that our political and military leadership will resolve this issue very easily. BTW, my most of the class fellows were from different areas of Blochistan, and I was very pleased to hear from them that no such independence movement exists; no doubt they have some valid concerns But don’t you worry InshAllah we will resolve them very comprehensively. Doosray Mulak jo panga lay rahey hen hum wo bhi jantay hen.

Now bhai kabhi ap 7 sisters states gai ho, mera mashwara mano to gusa kha ker chaley na jana warna mujhay apney achey dost say hath dhona peray ga.

O Bhai O Bhai hum kis behas me per gai please yar chor is blame game ko, bhool ja buri History ko ghaltian hamari bhi or tumhari bhi chul dosti ka hath milaen, Hum apni next generation ko kia yehi blame game or dushmani transfer keren gay- mera dil nahi manta.

 

[HariPrasad]

We are pissed at DRDO, HAL, BEL, OFB because of delay's and poor development time frame, I have always wondered how come MoD's defence procurement and planning commission has zero accountability???

But they have done some excellent Jobs also. You can thank them if you want.

 

[MilSpec]

But they have done some excellent Jobs also. You can thank them if you want.

do you mean the MOD?? read the post in context...

 

[Malik Usman]

They are just a missiles away for Pakistan Navy....

 

[Penguin]

At least 6 of the Mig-29Ks will be tasked with protecting the carrier, and that means engaging hostile ships and aircraft which may try to launch missiles at the carrier

If the rest of them, 18 on total, are "out doing something else", that means the CVBG group is able to do more than be busy defending itself. Even if it is responding to a diversion the amount of resources to be able to successfully attack the Indian CVBG group will be enormous.

6 Mig 29K versus and escort of at least 5 JF-17, leaving the MPA's unchallenged. Or divide up, but this gives that JF17 package better odds.

18 Migs out doing something else may also be land-strike, or long range missile with buddy-buddy refuelling.

And all this is assuming just the basic package of 2 MPA and 10 JF-17.... (of which there are more)

We can debate the outcome here endlessly but the point is ... under the right conditions, the odds aren't always overwhelmingly against the strike package or invariably in favor if the Indian force.

Not counting luck, that is.

Pakistan's Navy is defensive in nature and we will not exactly be sailing the CBG to Pakistan's shore on the first day of conflict. So will the relatively small PN leave it shores to hunt for the Indian CBG.

Maybe, maybe not.

At least 6 of the Mig-29Ks will be tasked with protecting the carrier, and that means engaging hostile ships and aircraft which may try to launch missiles at the carrier

6 migs means a continuous patrol of just 2 aircraft ....

 

[Storm Force]

You cannot send out a single engined light weight fighter out to sea 400km away in the hope you will track it and engage it .

The CBG is a moving target
JF17 is a limited unit with small combt radius and worse a small load
It was never built to carry out martime patrol which is a burden taken on by far bigger multi role fighters .
Your small fleet of thunders will not leave the cover of your GCC and nearby support network of sams & F16s

You want engage the CBG you need a sledge HAMMER

That means big powerful long range strike aircraft with long range BVRS to take out the MIG29Ks
big powerful EW suites & Jammers ie

SU33 /J11
F18 Super hornets
Rafale