Vietnam welcomes China's military development: Vietnamese defense official

[gambit]

Last time I said, China is different from India and Brazil now, even if the siege in the West 's hostility, Why do you think? China's success is not coming out from the air, look at the issue needs deeper.

Yes...That success came from capitalism, state directed or not, and it came from the American consumers' pocketbooks, which remains quite deep. Do not try to label this as 'capitalism with Chinese characteristics'. It is mere handwaving like a magician's to distract the audience from the fact that China owes her economic prosperity from adopting what was once considered to be a hostile ideology to humanity. Epic fail.

You guys can talk smack about China all you want. Include your racism to other Asiatics if you like. And please do not tell the readers that the Chinese is immune from racism. The Chinese have displayed their racism to be as strong as that of the Yamato Race. But if you include Viet Nam in your trash talking and if such talk include inaccuracies, then be prepared to back it up. Show everyone how is the US responsible for Viet Nam's economic backwardness. How -- As in mechanisms. Do not bring up sanctions because obedience to sanctions is voluntary. Japan and South Korea defied the US and entered Viet Nam long before US President Bill Clinton removed those sanctions. Both countries nearly left because of Viet Nam's lack of human capital, corruption, and inefficiencies. And sanctions do not prevent communist countries from trading with each other. But if you trade in crap then all you will get is crap and communist countries have no choice but to foist their crap on each other because no one else will put up with crap for long. Remember the Yugo?

 

[huzihaidao12]

Yes...That success came from capitalism, state directed or not, and it came from the American consumers' pocketbooks, which remains quite deep. Do not try to label this as 'capitalism with Chinese characteristics'. It is mere handwaving like a magician's to distract the audience from the fact that China owes her economic prosperity from adopting what was once considered to be a hostile ideology to humanity. Epic fail.

You guys can talk smack about China all you want. Include your racism to other Asiatics if you like. And please do not tell the readers that the Chinese is immune from racism. The Chinese have displayed their racism to be as strong as that of the Yamato Race. But if you include Viet Nam in your trash talking and if such talk include inaccuracies, then be prepared to back it up. Show everyone how is the US responsible for Viet Nam's economic backwardness. How -- As in mechanisms. Do not bring up sanctions because obedience to sanctions is voluntary. Japan and South Korea defied the US and entered Viet Nam long before US President Bill Clinton removed those sanctions. Both countries nearly left because of Viet Nam's lack of human capital, corruption, and inefficiencies. And sanctions do not prevent communist countries from trading with each other. But if you trade in crap then all you will get is crap and communist countries have no choice but to foist their crap on each other because no one else will put up with crap for long. Remember the Yugo?

You even can not understand what I mean, China is different from India and Brazil, he is a racist? I just said that China's economic development and national strength are different with India and Brazil. China's external environment is even worse, do more successful, it is not from the air, do not you ever wondered why?

1949-1979 brought what to the Chinese, you may have no idea, just focus on the negative part because of Western propaganda.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Also, on corruption, which do you think there is no corruption in third world countries, India, Brazil, the Philippines, Mexico, in addition to Brazil, all countries have corruption worse than Vietnam. I do not know where you are the eyes to see, however, you can easily leave from Vietnam, easy criticism of Vietnam, even have unjust accusation, Just because you are in first world countries, not at all clear what it was like all third world countries. Only a condescending attitude, it is not enough for the truth.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Communism either destroys or discourage creativity, the most vital element of that human capital.

Lol. Just wanted to remind you that the first object space was launched by the Nazis and the first object in orbit/the first man in space were Commies too.

My friends don't let his eloquent speech fool you. So far his arguments could be summed up as this:

1) Me: Although the Communists committed a great deal of atrocities, so did the U.S. during the Vietnamese War.
2) Gambit: The Communists are the most evil, vile creatures in the history of man. Oh by the way all the stories of U.S. atrocities are coverups by the Liberals.
3) Me: Over 4 million Vietnamese dead and still no remorse from you? Come on, the U.S. is a great country today since her flexible constitution allowed her to correct mistakes. We had bad things like slavery and segregation but we don't have them any more.
4) Gambit: Commies are still bad. They are the ones hampering creativity/innovation. They are so corrupt that ...

 

[AViet]

Lol. Just wanted to remind you that the first object space was launched by the Nazis and the first object in orbit/the first man in space were Commies too.

My friends don't let his eloquent speech fool you. So far his arguments could be summed up as this:

1) Me: Although the Communists committed a great deal of atrocities, so did the U.S. during the Vietnamese War.
2) Gambit: The Communists are the most evil, vile creatures in the history of man. Oh by the way all the stories of U.S. atrocities are coverups by the Liberals.
3) Me: Over 4 million Vietnamese dead and still no remorse from you? Come on, the U.S. is a great country today since her flexible constitution allowed her to correct mistakes. We had bad things like slavery and segregation but we don't have them any more.
4) Gambit: Commies are still bad. They are the ones hampering creativity/innovation. They are so corrupt that ...

Gambit is not representative to overwelming majority of Vietnamese people. He, like many old oversea Vietnamese who fled Vietnam after April 30, 1975, do not know much about current Vietnam and still keep his old belief, so i wont discuss with him.
Most of the well-educated people in Vietnam that I talked to, generally do not like communism in its basic sense. But they also do not like America style democracy. In general, people prefer Taiwan, Chinese (communism in name only) or South Korean models, although China is much disliked for the aggressive expansion policy towards our islands on East Sea. That is one of the reasons why Korean and greater Chinese world movies and culture are so much popular in Vietnam now, much more than western or American movies.
The cooperative relationship of North Vietnam with China and Russia during the war can not be compared to the master-slave relationship of South Vietnam with the US. The whole world and even many former South Vietnamese army generals and government officials knew and recognized that, so it is not worth to discuss.
About communism hampering creativity and innovation, i believe it is only a bias belief. The former Soviet Union and Russia have many more people awarded with Nobel prize and Field medal (in math) than a lot of Western-style democratic countries with similar or bigger scale of economy, like France, Britain or Germany.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Gambit is not representative to overwelming majority of Vietnamese people. He, like many old oversea Vietnamese who fled Vietnam after April 30, 1975, do not know much about current Vietnam and still keep his old belief, so i wont discuss with him.
Most of the well-educated people in Vietnam that I talked to, generally do not like communism in its basic sense. But they also do not like America style democracy. In general, people prefer Taiwan, Chinese (communism in name only) or South Korean models, although China is much disliked for the aggressive expansion policy towards our islands on East Sea. That one of the reasons why Korean and greater Chinese world movies and culture are so much popular in Vietnam now, much more than western or American movies.
The cooperative relationship of North Vietnam with China and Russia during the war can not be compared to the master-slave relationship of South Vietnam with the US. The whole world and even many former South Vietnamese army generals and government officials knew and recognized that, so it is not worth to discuss.
About communism hampering creativity and innovation, i believe it is only a bias belief. The former Soviet Union and Russia have many more people awarded with Nobel prize and Field medal (in math) than a lot of Western-style democratic countries with similar or bigger scale of economy, like France, Britain or Germany.

I always think that China and Vietnam war is a very regrettable thing, if the leaders of the older generation still alive, or after the disintegration of the Soviet Union in 1991, to have a better outcome. China and Vietnam is now the only problem is that the South China Sea territorial issues, as long as the solution to this problem, our relationship will not have any difficulties. I hope we find a more sensible, peaceful solution. In any event, the East development has started, and cooperation should be much better than confrontation.

 

[below_freezing]

Gambit is not representative to overwelming majority of Vietnamese people. He, like many old oversea Vietnamese who fled Vietnam after April 30, 1975, do not know much about current Vietnam and still keep his old belief, so i wont discuss with him.
Most of the well-educated people in Vietnam that I talked to, generally do not like communism in its basic sense. But they also do not like America style democracy. In general, people prefer Taiwan, Chinese (communism in name only) or South Korean models, although China is much disliked for the aggressive expansion policy towards our islands on East Sea. That is one of the reasons why Korean and greater Chinese world movies and culture are so much popular in Vietnam now, much more than western or American movies.
The cooperative relationship of North Vietnam with China and Russia during the war can not be compared to the master-slave relationship of South Vietnam with the US. The whole world and even many former South Vietnamese army generals and government officials knew and recognized that, so it is not worth to discuss.
About communism hampering creativity and innovation, i believe it is only a bias belief. The former Soviet Union and Russia have many more people awarded with Nobel prize and Field medal (in math) than a lot of Western-style democratic countries with similar or bigger scale of economy, like France, Britain or Germany.

thank you for a voice from true vietnam.

 

[gambit]

Gambit is not representative to overwelming majority of Vietnamese people. He, like many old oversea Vietnamese who fled Vietnam after April 30, 1975, do not know much about current Vietnam and still keep his old belief, so i wont discuss with him.

And I doubt that you are.

Most of the well-educated people in Vietnam that I talked to, generally do not like communism in its basic sense.

Cám ơn anh. That is exactly what I have been saying. So in what you just said, what is it exactly that I am not supposedly representative of current Viet Nam?

But they also do not like America style democracy.

This is a false dichotomy, that the ONLY alternative to communism is an 'American' style democracy. The US is the only country in the world that does not have a 'threshold' base parliament. But the US does not call Great Britain, France, Switzerland, Japan, or South Korea 'communist'. This argument indicate you have a serious lack of understanding on what is applied democracy and how, unlike dictatorships, democratic mechanisms are infinitely more flexible to allow for a people's unique social and cultural biases and naturally, its political maturity.

In general, people prefer Taiwan, Chinese (communism in name only) or South Korean models, although China is much disliked for the aggressive expansion policy towards our islands on East Sea. That is one of the reasons why Korean and greater Chinese world movies and culture are so much popular in Vietnam now, much more than western or American movies.
The cooperative relationship of North Vietnam with China and Russia during the war can not be compared to the master-slave relationship of South Vietnam with the US. The whole world and even many former South Vietnamese army generals and government officials knew and recognized that, so it is not worth to discuss.
About communism hampering creativity and innovation, i believe it is only a bias belief. The former Soviet Union and Russia have many more people awarded with Nobel prize and Field medal (in math) than a lot of Western-style democratic countries with similar or bigger scale of economy, like France, Britain or Germany.

Cooperative? You gotta be joking, right? You must also have a very poor knowledge of the history of the war, particularly the SVN-US relationship how Ngô Ðình Diêm consistently frustrated the US regarding how South Viet Nam should be administered. SVN was a lot more independent of the US than NVN was from China.

 

[huzihaidao12]

You are too confident, you really know the Vietnamese.now? I mean, you're not the "investor" status, but really the Vietnamese people's lives, comprehensive and in-depth?

 

[huzihaidao12]

Also, the relationship between China and Vietnam, if Vietnam is really a puppet of China, then how can the Vietnamese against the China? After the war, why do not the Chinese troops in Vietnam?

 

[huzihaidao12]

About democracy, democracy is really not just theory, there are many complex things, even in the most recent decades the American people are more civil rights. However, why the U.S. is still strong pressure in any country, in the "democracy", why? The key is not a theory, but all the associated reality.

 

[gpit]

How the mighty have fallen indeed. Once China boasted of being a communist powerhouse. Now China is begging to learn from US.

Just as US begging money from China...

 

[gpit]

When you violently seize control and make a radical departure from the current course, you own the journey. But the analogy stop here because unlike a ship, a country has natural resources that those ousted from power cannot take with them. France took nothing from Indochina after conceding that colonialism is dead. But the human capital is something that can be destroyed or removed from the country. Communism either destroys or discourage creativity, the most vital element of that human capital. So many educated Viets were either killed in post war communist inspired revenge or fled the country. Then comes the incompetent management of the country's natural resources that set the country back at least two decades. So when what the US did during the war is used to gloss over the true cause of Viet Nam's backwardness -- communism -- then yes, it is 'pop writing'.

So, according to what you have implied, in pre-communist era, non-communist Vietnam either created a great deal of talents or educated a lot of “vital human capital” such that it was a richer and more developed country, if it is not more than France (a communist cradle), must be more than backward communist Soviet/China.

 

[gambit]

So, according to what you have implied, in pre-communist era, non-communist Vietnam either created a great deal of talents or educated a lot of “vital human capital” such that it was a richer and more developed country, if it is not more than France (a communist cradle), must be more than backward communist Soviet/China.

Nonsense... It is YOU who made that implication. A false logic. Indochina, like China, were under European colonialism, so are you going to make the same logic? This is one sorry attempt among others at rehabilitating communism.

 

[prototype]

Unfortunately all the hawks in India are too worried about the invisible "string of pearls" and everyone else, who I assume to be exceptionally gifted people due to my exposure to Indians here in the U.S., understand that a healthy Sino-Indian relationship is vital to Asia's peace and stability. So don't expect India to interfere on Vietnam's behalf.

its good to know my friend that u believe for a better Asia a healthy sino-indian relationship is too vital,but by openly supporting our our arch rival Pakistan and arming them to the tooth add to this the latest provocations by China,i dont think China is actually justifying the peace scenario,if this continue India is bound to respond in a similar fashion