Slav Defence
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I am warning Indians to avoid provocations. Pakistani posters should ignore such post and avoid abusing their faith.
Turks say they have audio and video proof journalist was killed in Saudi consulate
- Thread starter Shapur Zol Aktaf
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[QUOTE="T-Rex, post: 10855912, member: 9303"
but no one will go against MBS including Turkey . [/QUOTE]
You are stretching your argument to the point of being absurd. It may be true inside the Machiavellian kingdom but if you say it is also true in Turkey and Qatar, you are being plain stupid.[/QUOTE]
Before call ' stupid ' some one , at least educate yourself with current affairs .
Do you know , Trump is unwilling to take any action against MBS .
Do you know Yeni Safak , ? It is an a pro govt Turkish newspaper . This quote from Yen Safak .
' Jamal Khashoggi’s cause was to strengthen Turkey-Saudi relations
Another issue in this matter where we should err on the side of caution is Turkey-Saudi Arabia relations. There is no meaning in raging against Saudi Arabia because of Khashoggi’s disappearance in the consulate and it is also certainly no good.
Turkey and Saudi Arabia are still two countries that need each other. Their destinies are tied together. Questioning what happened to Khashoggi and expecting the Saudi authorities to provide answers does not necessarily mean you have to become an enemy of Saudi Arabia.
In a program I joined on an Arab TV channel, I answered a question on the possible impact of this incident on the bilateral relations between these two countries. I started by stating that the two nations are sharing a common fate and said the following:
“Let’s assume that this incident occurred as brutally as it was reported in the press; in that case, we will still be avoiding statements which would totally incriminate Saudi Arabia. Of course, a state cannot act beyond the law, otherwise, you don’t call it a state. In this case, we might be dealing with an organization which is acting as a kind of deep state structure by using the means of a state representing its own people. It is necessary to eradicate these elements.
Turkey has experience with this kind of a “deep state” structure. Those who were acting unlawfully in the name of the state have been punished in the name of the state and these elements were eradicated.”
Indeed, anyone who uses any kind of state authority and who could organize all the staff at the consulate to abduct or even kill a free person, before anything else, is betraying his/her own country and this means that he/she is a threat to their own people and their own state.
He/she destroys his/her own state’s right to be sovereign.
Because a state isn’t an organization which is not based on law and constitutes a threat to its own citizens.
Thus, what we ask from Saudi Arabia is above all things, to reveal these illegal structures which are against Turkey and the whole of humanity.
Regardless of their title. Of course, we know that this is not an easy task for Saudi Arabia. It has not been easy for Turkey either, but in order to be a real state or to save the state from an organization that infiltrated it, this is a must.
That is why defending Khashoggi’s cause is not being hostile to Saudi Arabia, quite the opposite, it is being friendly to it. '
Try to realize this if you have the capacity to understand world world politics .
To say some one ' stupid ' is a ba adbi . Please don't speak like a ba adob . If you can't realize something simply skip it or gve your logic . I love Turkey and Turkish people .
but no one will go against MBS including Turkey . [/QUOTE]
You are stretching your argument to the point of being absurd. It may be true inside the Machiavellian kingdom but if you say it is also true in Turkey and Qatar, you are being plain stupid.[/QUOTE]
Before call ' stupid ' some one , at least educate yourself with current affairs .
Do you know , Trump is unwilling to take any action against MBS .
Do you know Yeni Safak , ? It is an a pro govt Turkish newspaper . This quote from Yen Safak .
' Jamal Khashoggi’s cause was to strengthen Turkey-Saudi relations
Another issue in this matter where we should err on the side of caution is Turkey-Saudi Arabia relations. There is no meaning in raging against Saudi Arabia because of Khashoggi’s disappearance in the consulate and it is also certainly no good.
Turkey and Saudi Arabia are still two countries that need each other. Their destinies are tied together. Questioning what happened to Khashoggi and expecting the Saudi authorities to provide answers does not necessarily mean you have to become an enemy of Saudi Arabia.
In a program I joined on an Arab TV channel, I answered a question on the possible impact of this incident on the bilateral relations between these two countries. I started by stating that the two nations are sharing a common fate and said the following:
“Let’s assume that this incident occurred as brutally as it was reported in the press; in that case, we will still be avoiding statements which would totally incriminate Saudi Arabia. Of course, a state cannot act beyond the law, otherwise, you don’t call it a state. In this case, we might be dealing with an organization which is acting as a kind of deep state structure by using the means of a state representing its own people. It is necessary to eradicate these elements.
Turkey has experience with this kind of a “deep state” structure. Those who were acting unlawfully in the name of the state have been punished in the name of the state and these elements were eradicated.”
Indeed, anyone who uses any kind of state authority and who could organize all the staff at the consulate to abduct or even kill a free person, before anything else, is betraying his/her own country and this means that he/she is a threat to their own people and their own state.
He/she destroys his/her own state’s right to be sovereign.
Because a state isn’t an organization which is not based on law and constitutes a threat to its own citizens.
Thus, what we ask from Saudi Arabia is above all things, to reveal these illegal structures which are against Turkey and the whole of humanity.
Regardless of their title. Of course, we know that this is not an easy task for Saudi Arabia. It has not been easy for Turkey either, but in order to be a real state or to save the state from an organization that infiltrated it, this is a must.
That is why defending Khashoggi’s cause is not being hostile to Saudi Arabia, quite the opposite, it is being friendly to it. '
Try to realize this if you have the capacity to understand world world politics .
To say some one ' stupid ' is a ba adbi . Please don't speak like a ba adob . If you can't realize something simply skip it or gve your logic . I love Turkey and Turkish people .
T-Rex
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Listen mister wise guy, deep state or not what happened inside the consulate could not have happened if it had not been sanctioned from the very top. Instead of being as stupid as that wahabi prince perhaps you should stop defending what is indefensible . Your 'love' for Turkey is irrelevant here, so you don't need to display it with a sign board.
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Hakikat ve Hikmet
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Hence, the Turkish analysts are also divided!!! And, Turkey has asked the KSA for a joint investigation!!!! But, the KSA folks need to clarify the whole scenario: the private planes to Istanbul, the folks from those planes getting into the consulate, then flying out to UAE/Kairo etc.!!!! The way it's done some folks want to send some messages to some other folks!!! And, MBS/MBZ/Sisi trio are a bad news for the locals whenever they appear!!!! A very very complicated scenario!!!! Turkey is walking a fine line....
T-Rex
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Political, financial pressure escalating on Saudis over missing journalist
DAILY SABAH WITH WIRES
ISTANBUL
Published 18 hours ago
Journalists stand in front of the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul. Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi Washington Post contributor, vanished on Oct. 2 after entering the consulate to obtain official documents ahead of his marriage to his Turkish fiancee.
Diplomatic pressure to force Saudi Arabia to come clean about the fate of missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi is escalating while a Saudi delegation has arrived in Ankara to discuss the matter
European countries and the U.S. have increased the pressure on Saudi authorities to reveal what they know about Jamal Khashoggi, who has been missing since Oct. 2, after entering the country's consulate in Istanbul.
"The disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul... has raised serious questions about his fate. France asks that the facts be clearly established and that all those who can contribute to the truth fully contribute to it," French Foreign ministry spokeswoman Agnes Von der Muhll said in a statement Friday.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert said: "The German government is seriously concerned over Khashoggi's disappearance without a trace, and sweeping suspicions [on the disappearance] are horrifying." Seibert said a prompt and extensive investigation should clarify the journalist's disappearance.
Meanwhile, U.S. President Donald Trump said he's talked to officials at the highest level of the Saudi kingdom and is "demanding everything" to explain how Khashoggi, an activist who had been critical of Saudi leaders, vanished after he walked into the consulate in Istanbul to get documents he needed to get married. Trump said Friday that he would call Saudi Arabia's King Salman soon to raise the issue of Khashoggi's disappearance.
According to the Associated Press, Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Trump supporter and top member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said: "We want to have a relationship with Saudi Arabia. They're a strategic partner. They're a mortal enemy of the Iranians. They're helping us on terrorism." But added, "Having said all that, if this did happen - and it's increasingly likely that something bad happened to this man at the hands of the Saudi government - that shows contempt for us. That's disrespectful to us. It puts people like me in a box who've been one of the leading champions of the relationship."
'TURKEY HAS PROOF'
While there has been no official statement about what Turkish authorities believe happened to Khashoggi, some local officials have talked to reporters off the record. According to a report by the Washington Post, Turkish officials told that American counterparts that they have audio and video evidence pointing to Saudis killing and dismembering the journalist. The newspaper, for which Khashoggi is a columnist, cited anonymous officials as saying the recordings show a Saudi security team detained the writer when he went to the consulate on Oct. 2 to pick up a document for his upcoming wedding.
Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia has called the allegation it abducted or harmed Khashoggi "baseless." However, it has offered no evidence to support its claim he left the consulate and vanished despite his fiance waiting outside.
President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan called on Riyadh to prove Khashoggi left, challenging Saudi Arabia to provide CCTV images to back up its account. Officers were looking into sound recordings sent from a smartwatch that Khashoggi was wearing when he was inside the consulate to a mobile phone which he gave to his Turkish fiancee waiting outside, Hatice Cengiz.
While Milliyet daily reported that "arguments and shouting" could be heard on the recordings, Sözcü newspaper said that only "some conversations" could be heard. The Yeni Şafak daily reported that police were also investigating the possibility that Khashoggi's body was moved via the sewage system.
JOINT WORKING GROUP
On Thursday, Turkish Presidential Spokesman İbrahim Kalın said Turkey and Saudi Arabia would form a "joint working group" to look into Khashoggi's disappearance. Turkish diplomatic sources told Agence France-Presse (AFP) and the Anadolu Agency (AA) that a Saudi Arabian delegation had arrived in capital Ankara on Friday and would be holding talks with Turkish officials at the weekend. Kalın on Thursday said that a joint working group would be set up to solve the mystery over the disappearance.
Turkey and Saudi Arabia are also at odds over a planned search by the Turkish authorities at the Istanbul consulate. Riyadh agreed on Tuesday to let Turkish authorities search the Saudi mission as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Khashoggi. But the search has not yet taken place. The Turkish-language daily newspaper, Sabah said this was because Saudi officials would only allow a superficial "visual" probe. The Turkish side did not accept the offer and Sabah said officials wanted to search the building with luminol, a chemical that allows for the discovery of blood traces.
DAILY SABAH WITH WIRES
ISTANBUL
Published 18 hours ago
Journalists stand in front of the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul. Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi Washington Post contributor, vanished on Oct. 2 after entering the consulate to obtain official documents ahead of his marriage to his Turkish fiancee.
Diplomatic pressure to force Saudi Arabia to come clean about the fate of missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi is escalating while a Saudi delegation has arrived in Ankara to discuss the matter
European countries and the U.S. have increased the pressure on Saudi authorities to reveal what they know about Jamal Khashoggi, who has been missing since Oct. 2, after entering the country's consulate in Istanbul.
"The disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul... has raised serious questions about his fate. France asks that the facts be clearly established and that all those who can contribute to the truth fully contribute to it," French Foreign ministry spokeswoman Agnes Von der Muhll said in a statement Friday.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert said: "The German government is seriously concerned over Khashoggi's disappearance without a trace, and sweeping suspicions [on the disappearance] are horrifying." Seibert said a prompt and extensive investigation should clarify the journalist's disappearance.
Meanwhile, U.S. President Donald Trump said he's talked to officials at the highest level of the Saudi kingdom and is "demanding everything" to explain how Khashoggi, an activist who had been critical of Saudi leaders, vanished after he walked into the consulate in Istanbul to get documents he needed to get married. Trump said Friday that he would call Saudi Arabia's King Salman soon to raise the issue of Khashoggi's disappearance.
According to the Associated Press, Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Trump supporter and top member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said: "We want to have a relationship with Saudi Arabia. They're a strategic partner. They're a mortal enemy of the Iranians. They're helping us on terrorism." But added, "Having said all that, if this did happen - and it's increasingly likely that something bad happened to this man at the hands of the Saudi government - that shows contempt for us. That's disrespectful to us. It puts people like me in a box who've been one of the leading champions of the relationship."
'TURKEY HAS PROOF'
While there has been no official statement about what Turkish authorities believe happened to Khashoggi, some local officials have talked to reporters off the record. According to a report by the Washington Post, Turkish officials told that American counterparts that they have audio and video evidence pointing to Saudis killing and dismembering the journalist. The newspaper, for which Khashoggi is a columnist, cited anonymous officials as saying the recordings show a Saudi security team detained the writer when he went to the consulate on Oct. 2 to pick up a document for his upcoming wedding.
Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia has called the allegation it abducted or harmed Khashoggi "baseless." However, it has offered no evidence to support its claim he left the consulate and vanished despite his fiance waiting outside.
President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan called on Riyadh to prove Khashoggi left, challenging Saudi Arabia to provide CCTV images to back up its account. Officers were looking into sound recordings sent from a smartwatch that Khashoggi was wearing when he was inside the consulate to a mobile phone which he gave to his Turkish fiancee waiting outside, Hatice Cengiz.
While Milliyet daily reported that "arguments and shouting" could be heard on the recordings, Sözcü newspaper said that only "some conversations" could be heard. The Yeni Şafak daily reported that police were also investigating the possibility that Khashoggi's body was moved via the sewage system.
JOINT WORKING GROUP
On Thursday, Turkish Presidential Spokesman İbrahim Kalın said Turkey and Saudi Arabia would form a "joint working group" to look into Khashoggi's disappearance. Turkish diplomatic sources told Agence France-Presse (AFP) and the Anadolu Agency (AA) that a Saudi Arabian delegation had arrived in capital Ankara on Friday and would be holding talks with Turkish officials at the weekend. Kalın on Thursday said that a joint working group would be set up to solve the mystery over the disappearance.
Turkey and Saudi Arabia are also at odds over a planned search by the Turkish authorities at the Istanbul consulate. Riyadh agreed on Tuesday to let Turkish authorities search the Saudi mission as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Khashoggi. But the search has not yet taken place. The Turkish-language daily newspaper, Sabah said this was because Saudi officials would only allow a superficial "visual" probe. The Turkish side did not accept the offer and Sabah said officials wanted to search the building with luminol, a chemical that allows for the discovery of blood traces.
Every one knows it wahabi prince did it , perhaps deep state let it happened and at least two intelligence knew it and trained these stupids .
I am not defending indefensible any one , it is just a quote from Yenisafak . So don't be stupid .
I became stupid to read your earlier post where you mentioned Qatar , " It may be true inside the Machiavellian kingdom but if you say it is also true in Turkey and Qatar, you are being plain stupid." Is Qatar not an Machiavellian state ? Is it a democratic republic ? Ha ha ha . You make me laugh Mr. Over Smart . Do you know ' The Prince ' ? I astonished to see you spell the word ' Machiavellian ' correctly though you don't know the meaning of it . I am not interested to involve in any debate where I have to bound to use harsh word . I am so sorry for that ! Mr T Rex .
AmirPatriot
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Pretty obvious the Saudis are lying. If he left the consulate, why didn't he tell his fiancée? Why hasn't he gone public and told the world he's still alive?
The only question now remains if he's been abducted or killed. Likely the latter.
The only question now remains if he's been abducted or killed. Likely the latter.
T-Rex
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First learn to quote properly. Secondly Machiavellian does not mean democratic or undemocratic. It refers to a state completely devoid of ethics. As usual you are being stupid.
I am not interested to talk with a boneheaded . Go away .
T-Rex
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MBS, sissy, MBZ and Kushner, they are all terror godfathers. Unfortunately the list does not end there. The The Chinese and Russian camp has its fair share of terror godfathers.
T-Rex
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You missed sissy.
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